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The Nature Boy

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For the virus I am not into the conspiracy thing, I do believe that it was not handled well by the officials though. In Canada they treated all the areas the same as Montreal/Laval, did not matter if you had 700 cases or 20,000 cases. Drummondville had 250ish cases and zero deaths and still total lockdown bankrupting businesses.
I also noticed that a few states has around 1,000 cases but still total shutdown.
IMO, once a month was up they should have altered policies to fit the area as long as hospitals were not overcrowded, that would have saved the countries billions of dollars.
From what I am hearing is that the state governors run their states, they decide what steps to take, why are some Americans blaming Trump for the numbers instead of people like Como who was clueless for all of this, he caused thousands of deaths.
Anyways, not a single person I know has had the virus or even knows someone who had the virus, weird.
My daughter worked through all of this seeing anout 350 customers during the shift, no mask, plexiglass or gloves, same with the girl at the liquor store I seen once a week, always there and working, again, weird.

I remember you mentioning your daughter. She comes into contact with tons of peeps Saul. Has she ever been diagnostic or antibody tested?
 

sene5hos

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"I also noticed that a few states have about 1,000 cases, but still the total shutdown"
And the opposite is also true. Some states have lots of cases, and are not stopped.

My mother is in a CHSLD, she is in relatively good shape, she has passed through. When I was allowed to go back there, a lot of people were dead and my mother told me that a lot of attendants had had the covid, and that many had recovered, and others were too sick to return.
In the community, however, there have been far fewer cases.

"why are some Americans blaming Trump for the numbers"
The numbers are humans, 125,000 humans who died.
Let's see this is not a conspiracy, it is a fact.
Did you remember at the end of April when Trump told the people not to listen to the governors who did not want to deconfine. Trump and DeSantis who in April told the people of Florida that the coronavirus would go away on its own. Yesterday in Florida there were 10,000 new cases, these are just numbers???
So why are some Americans blaming Trump.
 

EagerBeaver

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Let's not act like there were any good choices. There weren't. While reopening may have been quick, it saved many small businesses from bankruptcies and gave them a chance to adapt their businesses while making money. Any politician would have been criticized no matter what he or she did. The choices were also made not knowing what the course of the virus would be. It's easy now to look back with the clarity of hindsight and hammer any decisions that were made either way. But let's not behave like there were ANY good decisions to be made that were not going to be hurtful or harmful in some way.

It is a colossal waste of energy to play the blame game. The Covid 19 pandemic was going to come here and going to be bad, no matter what happened, no matter who was President and no matter who was Governor. All of the finger pointing is incredibly moronic and stupid. We need to focus on moving forward and developing better testing, better treatment, better social distancing mechanisms, and possible vaccines. Businesses now have to adapt to the Zoom era. It's going to be a long time we will be living like this.
 
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The Nature Boy

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It is a colossal waste of energy to play the blame game. The Covid 19 pandemic was going to come here and going to be bad, no matter what happened, no matter who was President and no matter who was Governor. All of the finger pointing is incredibly moronic and stupid. We need to focus on moving forward and developing better testing, better treatment, better social distancing mechanisms, and possible vaccines. Businesses now have to adapt to the Zoom era. It's going to be a long time we will be living like this.

Nah, I don’t agree. You guys have been goin through this for like 3 months. Take Jan and feb out. You can dump that on and say trumps cdc director and HHS minister failed him. It’s F’ing JULY almost!!!! He’s told people to look into disinfectant as treatment, pushed a med that had not had any science behind it. Sets a tone by not wearing a mask, tells people “we are post covid”, and held large campaign rallies where states are experience ridiculous surges while @ same time quarantining his secret service, contact tracing the shit out of his staff and testing all of them.

You can certainly point fingers @ him. James Buchanan is lookin real good and prob smiling cause he knows he movin up in the rankings
 

IamNY

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I'm reading The Great Influenza by John M. Barry. A book that goes into incredible detail regarding the Spanish flu pandemic in the early 1900's. What I've found interesting is that although the pandemic was a hundred years ago many of the same tactics to contain the disease are exactly what we are doing today, a hundred years later. The medicine and treatments have evolved, but masks, social distancing, isolating, quarantine, etc. haven't changed at all. It was written in 2005 and it's incredibly detailed. What I also found interesting is that now that I am currently living through a pandemic I can really relate to all the stories. Highly recommended.
 

EagerBeaver

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Nature Boy,

Do you really think that things would be all the much different? Your post assumes that everyone is paying attention, when in reality the exact opposite is true. There were going to be people that were not going to listen no matter who their leader was. It's true that none of the things Trump did helped matters, but had someone else been in charge there still would have been that huge pool party in the Ozarks and countless other stupidities. Furthermore we are seeing that Trump had very little influence over what each State chose to do. However, as of right now, almost nobody in the USA has been successful in fully containing the virus despite countless different approaches.
 
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EagerBeaver

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I'm reading The Great Influenza by John M. Barry.

I am reading The Andromeda Strain by Michael Crichton. Although it's a novel and was a major national bestseller that launched Crichton's highly successful career when published in 1970, it is more topical now than when it was published and blends scientific fact with fiction. The same kinds of mistakes that were made in containing an alien microorganism from a meteor that caused the pandemic in that book are now being made 50 years later. I read the book 30 years ago and now that I am reading it again, I think its even more pertinent and topical now than it was in 1970.
 

Sol Tee Nutz

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Look behind you.
Some of you may have forgotten about flattening the curve and what it is meant to do, drag this out. From what I have been reading is if you are meant to get this virus you will get it be it today or in two months, it makes sense a spike will happen once things open up but as long as hospitals are not overrun it should make no difference ( unless you expect to stay indoors forever )
Read about the Florida numbers last night...WOW.
Why is Como not taking any heat from this? He really blew a few of his calls, caused a lot of deaths.
 

Fradi

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I agree I don’t think it would be much different with any President.
Day to day activities are run by the governors and it seems no two states can agree on anything.
Unfortunately it is a giant shit show which is not unique just to the United States.
Brazil, Sweden, the UK are not dealing with it much better to name a few. It took Boris a bout with reality to change his mind that it is no worse than the common flu and it won’t just disappear.
All politicians have their own greed and ambition in the forefront and that is why I think they are all scum and the trick is always to choose between who is going to screw you less.
 

The Nature Boy

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So what do you suggest?

I seem to recall that the vast majority of the U.S. population objected to strict quarantines and lock-downs.

And there are plenty of good studies showing that there are a lot of really undesirable consequences, certainly economic but even medical, to lockdowns and quarantines.

Once again, I blame the media and the American love of Rambo ( the guy who took out the bad guys, and only the bad guys, while 10,000 rounds of ammunition sailed past him without hitting him) for the irritating blame game.

it is really pretty simple. The more quarantines and lock-downs you have, the lower the transmission and death rate that you have. But there is all the suffering and economic misery that accompanies it.

If you give people freedom, you have to accept greater transmission and death rates. War isn’t like it is with Rambo. A lot of soldiers on our side get killed. So war becomes unpopular very quickly, and the more the media shows those deaths, the less popular the war becomes - Vietnam and Iraq are good examples compared to WWII and Korea.

Is 100,000 - 120,000 U.S. deaths compared to 330,000,000 people constituting the U.S. population an acceptable number to continue having greater relative freedom? Notice that I didn’t abbreviate it as 330 million. It is still a relatively small number, which is why many Americans do not know personally anyone who has contracted or died from covid-19. I think you have to put numbers on things and do the analysis and make decisions. And use real numbers, even if they are big and you have to re-learn fractions and what a denominator is. Set that calculator to having a lot of numbers after 0 when you do division and get a calculator that can handle 7,800,000,000 (which I think is the earth’s population).

Sweden did very limited restrictions, but look at all the criticism they got. A lot of people here like Science and have more respect for the slow controlled process than I do. So here would be a fun idea. Divide Sweden into two parts and lock half the damn country down entirely and let the other half continue as it is now. No travel between the two at all. Analyze the full results in a year or two, and see which approach everyone likes better.


I suggest not having a mass gathering inside with thousands of people in Tulsa for starters
 

Fradi

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I suggest not having a mass gathering inside with thousands of people in Tulsa for starters
I suppose this applies to the mass gatherings on UK beaches recently with young hooligans beating the crap out of each other also.
Not much distancing or mask wearing was going on in the news video that I saw yesterday.
I am not disagreeing with you just pointing out that this whole shit show is not unique to the US or just Trump supporters.
 

The Nature Boy

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There isn’t a government led denial i the UK of the shitshow
 
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IamNY

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Whether you are lawfully protesting or going to a political rally the first amendment is clear whether it’s during a pandemic or not:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
 

The Nature Boy

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No one is telling you not to have a rally but do it safely. And for sure the media shoulda given all the BLM more shit for these protests being super spreader events But do not compare a protest out of out rage from a guy literally getting lynched to a planned deliberate planned political rally, dude, lol, wtf?? And don’t use the 1st amendment as justification
 

IamNY

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Wasn’t necessarily comparing the two, just pointing out that they are both perfectly within their rights to do so. The first amendment gives them that right. Common sense is something else and it’s not covered under the first amendment.
 
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