French Canadian !

[Bred Sob]

. J'ai n'ai pas encore tout lu car la plupart des messages sont en anglais mais je tenais à répondre en premier lieu aux gens qui se permettent de m'insulter en public alors que j'avais demandé qu'on me réponde en privé.

Brittany,
Unlike you, I have followed this thread closely and I have not detected any insults whatsoever, whether directed at you or anyone else. Serious discussion of French culture in Quebec (among other things, of course ) -- yes, insults or ad hominem attacks -- no. Please don't take offense as none was meant.

My apologies for responding in English. It is much easier for me and far less time consuming.

Cheers!

 

[BrittanyMontreal]

Bred Sobe, je ne parlais pas de vous mais de gugu qui a encouragé ce forum pour m'insulter et ça dégénéré.
J'aurais aimé qu'il me réponde en privé plus poliement car je n'avais insulté personne dans mon message, j'aurais été très heureuse et reconnaissante d'avoir eu cette information de sa part mais moin méchant et blessant en privé. J'ai suis désolée d'avoir suscité autant de mépris en mon égar.
Moi, j'aime tout le monde alors sans rancune.
Comme ma mère nous disait étant jeune et jumelle "Accordez-vous dont, c'est si beau l'accordéon"
Bonne journée tout le monde.
Britt
:bolt:

 

[EagerBeaver]

There are zero insults in this thread. It's actually a pretty civil discussion of language issues, cultural preservation, scallions and the flag and sphere of influence of the Soviet Union, not to mention the toxicity of blowfish sushi. What's not to like about it?

If Brittany wanted a private response she could have written a Moderator privately. You start a thread on a topic, you invite a discussion. It's that simple.

 

[jalimon]

Brittany c'est un forum publique ici ou tous, ou presque, sont caché derrière un relatif anonymat. Vu le titre le thread ca aurait pus être bien pire. Moi je dis que c'est le thread de l'année haha Oui les anglos sont un peu tanné de nos revendications québécoises. Il faut les comprendre un peu... Tout d'abord pour les américains qui ne sont pas trop au fait du problème québécois de se faire servir des services de base dans leur langue le sujet à dû leur être très invitant "Fourrer des canadiens francais!" Wouhou ils ont dû se dire haha

De plus, de pouvoir lire certain qui ont une perspectives différentes car ils sont arrivé dans notre belle provinces en fuyant un pays dans la neige jusqu'au coup pourchasser par les soviets. Avoue que ca mets nos petites chicanes de perrons sur une perspectives différentes!

Je suis comme toi, québécois francais. Je travail uniquement en anglais. Mais pour moi il est très important de continuer à préserver notre identité et culture francaise. Vu que j'ai parlé beaucoup de cuisine ici je dirais que je suis prêt à me battre pour ca "croute que croute"

Cheers,

 

[BrittanyMontreal]

Étant donné que je n'ai pas inscrit de nom, je peux comprendre qu'il y aie confusion.
J'ai percu une invitation aux insultes de la part du premier message de "gugu" celui ou il me dit directement de me calmer les pompoms en publique. Peut -être que je me trompe mais il a parlé de partir une guerre et je réponds que ce n'était pas mon intention, c'est tout.
Maintenant, je lis les autres pages et je trouve bien comique plusieurs même et je dirais la majorité des messages (surtout les "ze=the) hahaha Ce n'était pas le sujet initial mais c'était très drôle.
Si j'ai partie ce forum, c'était bien sùr que j'avais communiqué avec le site par plusieurs reprises et qu'on ne m'avais pas répondu alors je me suis permis de le demander au publique.
J'avoue que mon titre est choquant, mais il me semble que ça ne méritait pas le genre de réponse de gugu et de me prendre pour une illétrée à cause que j'ai du mal avec mon anglais. Si gugu n'avait pas été aussi méchant dans son message, j'aurais osé lui demander qu'il m'envoit le lien de sa traduction mais avec sa première réponse, je n'ose pas le faire par peur de me faire attaquer une seconde fois.
J'aurais due mettre comme titre French Canadian et j'en suis désolée.
Maintenant, si on parle de culture québécoise dans ce forum, je vais me permettre d'écrire la mienne...
Malheureusement, je suis née dans les années où il y a eu le parti québécois pro-séparatiste qui ne voulait rien savoir de l'anglais.
On apprenait l'anglais en 5ième année du primaire et c'était des chansons à apprendre par coeur du genre "Don't Worry be Happy" si je vous dis que j'ai eu 80% dans mon examen de secondaire 5 en anglais, vous allez rire de moi mais c'est le cas. Une fille d'une 20 aine d'année plus jeune que moi au travail me disait avoir appris l'espagnole au secondaire ! WoW ! Les temps ont bien changé !
J'essaie de m'adapter et j'ai appris l'anglais sur le tas lorsque je suis venue m'installer à Montréal dans les années 90 mais dans les années 70, oubliez ça pour ce qui était d'apprendre l'anglais au Québec.
En voyagant , je n'ai pas le choix de me débrouiller en anglais et les gens me comprennent bien en général mais quand ça concerne mon buisness, j'aimerais comprendre mieux.
J'ai habité quelques années en France et j'ai bien ris lorsque j'ai lu Z=Th C'est vrai ! Hahaha! Le pire c'est que parfois (surtout en région parisienne) lorsque je leur parle avec mon français du Québec, on me répond en anglais avec cette bizarre d'accent, je leur répond en anglais mais c'est pire, avec mon accent de French Canadian ! Lol

lily of Montreal, je tiens à vous remercier énormément, je communiquerai avec vous en privé si j'ai besoin de l'aide, vous êtes vraiment très gentille
Brittany

 

[Doggyluver]

Politics, religion and in this case language. We all have our opinions and are likely to piss someone off by expressing them. Recognize that we all have strong opinions about each and respect those opinions and move on. I hold a position where I deal with clients daily and never allow myself to get involved in these topics, that position has served me well over the years. As an anglophone I have the utmost respect for both languages and work in both. Brittany said it best, "The best language is body language " take that any way you like

 

[EagerBeaver]

On apprenait l'anglais en 5ième année du primaire et c'était des chansons à apprendre par coeur du genre "Don't Worry be Happy" si je vous dis que j'ai eu 80% dans mon examen de secondaire 5 en anglais, vous allez rire de moi mais c'est le cas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU

Don't worry, be happy

 

[Halloween Mike]

Those who wear the hammer and sickle today are morally bankrupt, on par with those who brandish swastikas, KKK hoods or the ISIS flag. They each symbolize an extreme intolerant ideology and a willingness to kill innocent dissenters.

Let me tell you i have NOTHING in common with either of these groups.

I understand your point of views peoples and i do not have the same age as you either, i was not born in 1956 and there is obviously a side i can't know. But the one i do want to tribute to is the good one.

 

[BigBrowser]

i was not born in 1956 and there is obviously a side i can't know.

Fortunately, you could. Thanks to the testimony of people who fought against or fled from the tyranny of the Soviet regime (like some people in this thread - or their families), you have the opportunity to learn the other side of history. The one you seem to ignore or minimize.

I have absolutely no doubt that you mean well and that your intentions are valuable.
But people in this thread have merely been warning you that your good intentions cannot fit with such a violent regime.

They and their families have suffered (ugly euphemism) and some have fought so that no one can repeat this part of history.

I'm sure you can understand that they feel uncomfortable (at the very least) when someone like you comes praising the very same ideology they have been fighting and despising for generations.

That being said, I do think I understand what you may find attractive in this ideology. But you might want to brush up your history a little bit before you bring out the flag again.

Who knows, you might even change your mind!
Thanks Mike, and I really hope you won't be offended by my post. That's absolutely not my intention.

 

[minutemenX]

Fortunately, you could. Thanks to the testimony of people who fought against or fled from the tyranny of the Soviet regime (like some people in this thread - or their families), you have the opportunity to learn the other side of history. The one you seem to ignore or minimize.

I think what Mike is trying to point at is that the crucial role Russians played in defeating Nazi machine can’t be disputed. It has nothing to do with atrocities of the communist regime to whom Russians were the primary victims themselves. Though hammer and cycle is an emblem of the communist regime thus it should be better way to show admiration for Russian soldiers than wearing it

 

[CLOUD 500]

I must say that despite my admiration of French Canadian culture, I find the aggressive efforts to preserve it as embodied in Bill 101 to be somewhat vain, ethnocentric and xenophobic. I, like many in both the USA and Canada, am a descendant of immigrants from Europe. Residents of 7 different countries in Europe participated in sexual activities that eventually led to my existence.

This is because this has never had anything to do with preservation... This was always about ensuring that French dominated all other languages in this province. They want to completely eradicate all other languages. Keep in mind this is not typical of the people in general this is from a select group of xenophobic separatists. One can never forget the problems created by a terrorist organization called the FLQ. Just the fact that the signs are required to have the French letters to be double the size of the English one is proof of this. The xenophobes are very jealous that English is naturally everywhere. They are so jealous that they extended the laws to restrict Allophones and Francophones to attend English elementary or secondary schooling... Unless your parents or yourself has already attended English schooling. My parents made use of a loophole which was possible at the time they sent me to private school in English then I was allowed to attend English public school. Now the PQ want to extend these restrictions to colleges and universities. They will not be happy till all trace of English is completely eradicated. The war of the languages has been a constant problem in this province and I do not think this will ever go away as long as I am living maybe after some hundreds of years who knows.

 

[CLOUD 500]

Je suis comme toi, québécois francais. Je travail uniquement en anglais. Mais pour moi il est très important de continuer à préserver notre identité et culture francaise. Vu que j'ai parlé beaucoup de cuisine ici je dirais que je suis prêt à me battre pour ca "croute que croute"

You are completely right about this one. However the government should keep its nose out of this and let the citizens decide what language they want to use. Me myself since I work in Quebec I am forced to operate in French. It is not a choice it is mandatory.

 

[BigBrowser]

Hey cloud,

You're using such a vocabulary that I feel I need to intervene: "domination, eradicate, war, xenophobia..."
Man, you seem to have so much resentment for those who try to preserve French.
They're not all terrorists like you depict them. They're not all violent. Obviously, some are/were. History cannot be denied.

But come on! Who can seriously think that today, someone who would like to be able for their children to learn and speak the same language that their own parents and grandparents spoke, who can think that this person actually wants French to "dominate" English? Or that they hate everyone who doesn't speak French?
That's a bit far fetched, isn't it?

 

[CLOUD 500]

Hey cloud,

You're using such a vocabulary that I feel I need to intervene: "domination, eradicate, war, xenophobia..."
Man, you seem to have so much resentment for those who try to preserve French.
They're not all terrorists like you depict them. They're not all violent. Obviously, some are/were. History cannot be denied.

Are you kidding me? Do you think we are all naive to believe the lies told by the PQ? Come on man. What does enforcing a language got to do with preservation? Do you think restricting citizens from sending their kids to schooling of their language of choice is about preservation? The language was never in danger. Majority of the province speaks French. Their goal was to completely eradicate all other languages kind of like Nationalism a kind of ethnic and linguistic cleansing. They want to ensure that French dominates. But let me tell you English is endangered but the same xenophobes see no issue and even think there is still too much English in fact they think Bill 101 does not go far enough. English primary and secondary schools are closing down one by one due to reduced enrollment thanks to Bill 101. The PQ wants to extend those restrictions to post secondary schools and want to cut funding to English schools. Is that all really necessary? Is it not in everyones best interest to know both languages? In fact if you speak all three major languages English, French, and Spanish you can pretty much live all over North America. Have you heard of freedom? Democracy? Does that have any meaning to you? If the population decide to speak English then so be it. That is what is called living in a free country. Such laws are akin to Fascism. If a business chooses to operate in English and it is profitable then it deserves to survive. Who is the government to tell them they have to do everything in French?

 

[CLOUD 500]

Hey cloud,
But come on! Who can seriously think that today, someone who would like to be able for their children to learn and speak the same language that their own parents and grandparents spoke, who can think that this person actually wants French to "dominate" English? Or that they hate everyone who doesn't speak French?
That's a bit far fetched, isn't it?

If you bothered to read my original post I SAID that most are open and welcoming. It is just the limited group of xenophobic separatists that created political turmoil and they continue to do so. The PQ also continues to promote nationalism and xenophobia. It is a dying movement. This sentence you wrote is a good thing. To teach your offspring your language and culture is excellent. The problem is when a group of people driven by fear and jealousy want to enforce and suppress the freedom of the citizens living in that province is where the problem is. Bill 101 is a bad bill. It was drawn out of special circumstances using the Notwithstanding Clause. The damage caused to Quebec is very evident. Montreal went from the top major city to way behind Toronto. Back in the 80's Toronto was quiet minor and very undeveloped. Look at it today. It is triple the size of Montreal and growing at an exponential rate. Thanks to strict language laws of Quebec and of course high taxes. Montreal is much better then it has been since the 90's and early 2000 but still quiet stagnant. You see how so many businesses moved their HQs to Toronto when Bill 101 came into effect plus the mass exodus of Anglophones.

 

[BigBrowser]

I understand your point of view cloud, and I even see where the aggressiveness in your vocabulary comes from.

But still, I am francophone and I would be disappointed if I knew that 3 or 4 generations from now, French will no longer be spoken in Québec.

I feel there is something that needs to be done to make sure it doesn't happen so soon. What? I don't know.
Is the bill 101 the best way to get there? I don't know.
Is the PQ the best solution? I don't know.

But what I do know, is that I am not a terrorist and I don't think French should dominate English or that all other languages and/or ethnicities should be eradicated.
I am not jealous either.

So one can hope to preserve a culture without being Evil incarnated, a terrorist or an enemy of democracy. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

 

[CLOUD 500]

I understand your point of view cloud, and I even see where the aggressiveness in your vocabulary comes from.

But still, I am francophone and I would be disappointed if I knew that 3 or 4 generations from now, French will no longer be spoken in Québec.

That is up to the people as I am sure you will speak French in your household and with your kids. That is the way to preserve your culture just as many immigrants do. It has to be a choice out of free will not something that is shoved down your throats. If the people do not teach and pass on the language and culture to their offspring then it does not deserve to survive. You better believe no matter how French this province becomes or heck if I live in another country where an entirely different language is being spoken I will be speaking English to my kids and my family. English will be the language spoken in my household and that is the way to preserve the culture. Unfortunately as much as there is the local language there is also the business international language and that happens to be English. During the 60's this was the issue all those high paying decision making jobs required one to speak English well back in those days a large amount of the French population was uneducated and did not speak much English so they were stuck doing blue collar work or those low wage unskilled labor. But you know what it is good for everyone to be bilingual. The more languages you speak the more employable you are and the more countries you can have opportunity at. This is the difference between having an open mind and a closed one. Despite what most people thing many people in Toronto do speak French. There are French schools there. French is a big commodity and many jobs require bilingualism. If you speak French you will get a job in an instant that is how much it is needed. I really doubt that three or four generations from now French will not be spoken in Quebec however I do believe Montreal would have became much more English. But that is up to the people to choose. They could choose French.

So one can hope to preserve a culture without being Evil incarnated, a terrorist or an enemy of democracy. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

I do believe most are not evil as I said but there are some like those extremists who decided to join the FLQ. Most French Canadians are quiet open minded and many in Montreal do speak both languages. Ideally what we should have is kind of like what it is in New Brunswick. As for what you consider me being aggressive I am just blunt I saw things as they are... I do not care for being politically correct that the true meaning and reality is lost.

 

[CLOUD 500]

Quebec is our home and therefore if peoples come to live here they have to accept our history and traditions. If i go to your house, im sure you won't let me do whatever i want right? Same here.

Quebec is my home also but I am part of the Anglophone community. Like it or not English is part of Montreal. There is a significant Anglophone community in Montreal probably not in Sherbrooke. But accepting and having it enforced on your are two different things. Whether these people like it or not even without Bill 101 they would most likely have to learn and speak the local language otherwise they get no job. Plain and simple. In Toronto for example there is a large Chinese and Indian population and these people really did not assimilate they simply carry on with the way things are in their country. And one last thing as Sam21 pointed out in all this talk about culture and preservation you guys all forget that the Natives were here before you. Their culture is all gone. They essentially were conquered by the French and English. Not one person has assimilated any part of the Natives culture. Never forget that.

 

[Mars21]

Well this thread certainly opened up old wounds. Here's my 2 cents. At the time, Bill 101 was important to keep moderately political francophones from voting for independence. To them, the law was enough to calm the storm in the 1980s and 1990s. That, from a big picture point of view is making the best of a bad situation. It was not ideal legislation if you believe in individual rights and freedoms but in my view it helped to kick the legs out of the PQs movement.

These days people who live here should speak French, but that doesn't mean that any website should be in french.

Merb is simply a forum (managed out of Ontario) that happens to focus on Quebec. We would not expect a guide book to be written in French just because it covers Montreal. Likewise there's nothing wrong with making a suggestion that the site have a French interface option. If that were cheap and easy, I'd expect that the owners would have done that. But odds are it's not.

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

I found that if you are in a place where you do not know the language just make a slight attempt to speak the language, have a sense of humor and be polite, it does work.