Go Habs Go!

[tiga]

Yes, to pick him 3rd overall is surprising.

I am not in Bergevin's head

He was ranked as of April #19 (https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/sportsnets-2018-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings-lottery-edition/)

But Kotkaniemi was as they say "on an upward trend dating back to the Ivan Hlinka tournament last August".

He improved on his ranking mainly at the combine, it's a question of potential and ceiling.

They are trying to address a need that has not been filled for so long.

The Habs need centers, that will not be the only one they get this weekend.

He was considered the best at the center position.

This is not an exact science.

They did not chose a player that was NHL ready just to save Bergevin and try a quick fix.

Personally I'm happy they did not take Tkachuk.

He is a true center, not a guy who has done it in the past and maybe we can try him there... No more! A player who is built has the talent and at 17 the experience and knowledge it takes to play that position and will only play there for the rest of his career.

Even with all the analytics and so on, only 56% of the first rounders make the NHL, 22% from the second round, 13% 3rd and so on.

What it means is no other team can draft him, and the Habs and the player have to keep working.

The guy is not even 18.

He is now part of the organization, in two-three years he will be in Laval or Montreal.

He will be at the rookie camp this summer, get a lot of media attention, then go back to his junior team.

As fans, we can only hope for the best possible outcome...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQz_rbbojuk

 

[Doc Holliday]

So why did Montreal pick a guy ranked #18 at number 3? It’s a reach, is it not? Why not trade the pick and take him at #18 and get another pick as well?

He was ranked #18 by The Hockey News, which i consider hockey's bible. Other draft lists (such as Central Scouting) had him at various spots.

The first thing i said after he was picked was why didn't Montreal trade their pick away or swap it? He very likely still would have been available somewhere after the top 10 picks. So i texted my NHL insider in Vegas and he told me he had learned that Montreal had indeed tried to flip their pick but didn't have any takers among the top 15 teams picking.

But still.....

By the way i'm hearing that Max Pacioretty is likely heading to San Jose.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Tiga,

You cite percentages, but you play the percentages when you trade the #3 pick to someone who wants to move up, secure another pick, and then draft the guy you took at #3 at #15, 16, 17 or 18. That is the percentage play and Bergevin did not make it. If Bergevin's, or your crystal ball is better than the Hockey News' crystal ball, please let me know, but until that superior crystal ball power has been established I like to play the percentages. Lots of teams have gotten into trouble by picking for need rather than the best available player. Best available players can be traded for picks that are used to fill the needs. I have gone over this strategy again and again and again, but you guys do not understand it and seem to pledge blind faith to whatever Bergevin does, on the theory of wishful thinking. How much has the theory of wishful thinking helped the Habs recently? He made a terrible trade involving Subban and got an older injury prone player, and exactly what is Bergevin's draft record so far? He picked a budding superstar in Sergachev who was traded for the underachieving Drouin, another trade I do not understand and nobody has explained to me how it made sense, and who else has he picked that was any good?

 

[tiga]

where did that come from...



This thread is called Go Habs Go...

If you don't like Bergevin, his picks, no problemo...

Just don't take it out on me...

 

[EagerBeaver]

Tiga,

You commented on percentages etc. and I post to point out that the percentage play, in this case and with this pick, was not made. We all know that drafts are a crapshoot, but usually most of the draft boards of most teams and scouts are the same on assessing the value of draftable players or what range the player should get drafted in, within 3-5 picks or so. Usually, when you can get a guy 10-15 picks lower than what you are picking, a trade is the percentage play. That's all. I think Doc Holliday essentially said the same thing I did, using a slightly different analytical approach.

 

[tiga]

Well they did try to get something for the 3rd pick, but could not, and after all is analyzed, they really wanted the guy, so they picked him, if you want me to say they fucked up, well I won't.
The kid was evaluated in April, the draft was yesterday, when you are 17 years old, your body, skills can change fast.
The Habs did there due diligence, they went to Sweden and evaluated 30 young prospects, they met a lot of players, and at the end of the day as Bergevin often says, well you go with your gut.
I don't always back Bergevin, I think he lost big when Raduluv left, I liked PK also but sometimes he messed up, Drouin my evaluation is still ongoing, Chucky for Domi, I think he did not get enough, Lars Eller seems to flourish in Washington, does not have the best track record drafting in the first round, Tinordi total fuck-up.
Detroit had the best first round of any team... I think we can agree on that.

 

[Titilleur]

Le CH repêche encore des petits joueurs inconnus qui viennent de partout sauf du Québec (à part 1).

 

[tiga]

Y'en a un, un québécois qui est content, SAMUEL HOUDE:

http://www.tvasports.ca/2018/06/23/samuel-houde--aucun-mot-ne-peut-decrire-ca

 

[tiga]

Le Canadien de Montréal a ajouté un total de sept joueurs de centre à l’organisation au terme des deux journées du repêchage de la Ligue nationale de hockey tenu à Dallas.

 

[Doc Holliday]

The thing that gets me about the selection Montreal made is that it's the type of selection i may expect from one of the top teams with nothing to lose & where every current position is currently filled. But i was very surprised that coming from one of the worse teams in hockey that they'd select some raw kid out of Finland who's draft position only improved over the past few weeks. The habs have several large holes to fill especially scoring-wise and on defence so i was surprised they'd draft that particular kid who won't be able to help them (if at all) for at least 3-4 years down the road.

What was even more glaring to me was that the habs held the third overall pick and i still felt that with the third overall pick they could have done better instead of taking a huge gamble. Time may prove me wrong. But by then will Marc Bergevin even still be with the organization??

I would have totally been comfortable with that selection had any team outside the top 10 had made it. But #3 overall???

Bergevin's creativeness has never been his strenght and it's showing in every single decision he's made. Acquiring Domi was a good acquistion, but it came at a very high price in my opinion. Domi will likely get his game back once he starts playing in Montreal but he'll never achieve Alex Galchenyuk's potential. It's no surprise why Bergevin traded him to Arizona. The chances of Galchenyuk coming back to Montreal and haunt him by having big scoring games against the habs will be fewer and fewer since he's playing in a different conference. That's also what Ottawa had been expecting by trading Mike Hoffman to San Jose. They figured he wouldn't come back to haunt them as much. Little did they know that San Jose would immediately ship him off back to the eastern conference by trading him to Florida.

By the way Carey Price's wife just gave birth to their second child. Congrats to Carey and Angela. However it probably means Price will be sleeping even less come this season and don't expect any miracles from him this season, the first one where his gigantic contract starts to kick in for another 8 years. Ouch!!!

 

[tiga]

Bergevin leaves, Max Patches hell Price and Molson leaves, i dont care i only care about the team, i will stay true to the team.

I think 11 draft picks, just based on probabilities, there is bound to be something good...

 

[Doc Holliday]

I think 11 draft picks, just based on probabilities, there is bound to be something good...

I like your optimism. But history shows that few hockey players drafted after the first round end up finding regular employment in the NHL. Yes, there are always exceptions. As a hockey fan there's a part of me that wants the habs to become competitive again. Hockey doesn't seem the same when the habs are among the worse teams in hockey and aren't in the playoffs. Finally Toronto is competitive again & it would be fun to watch hockey if both teams could equally compete with one another.

By the way had i been an advisor to Marc Bergevin i would have strongly encouraged him to draft Filip Zadina with the #3 overall pick. He very likely would have made the team this season and been a top 6 forward. His scoring ability would have made up for Galchenyuk's departure. The unwritten rule is to draft the best player available at the time of your selection and when it came time for the habs to pick it was either Zadina or Tkachuk. Bergevin went with the big center prospect since he's been tired of hearing that the habs haven't had a true #1 center for years. By drafting the Finn he still didn't address the situation since he won't be NHL-ready for another 2-3 years, minimum.

What i would have done after drafting Zadina would have been to make a trade with one of the teams drafting late in the first round in order to draft big center Joseph Veleno who plays for Drummondville. Veleno ended up being drafted in the #30 slot by Detroit, who ended up with a terrific draft thanks to a bit of luck. The fact the habs didn't select either Zadina or Tkachuk turned the entire draft around since most teams didn't expect those two talented players to be passed on by the habs and their #3 overall selection. Or i would have tried my luck by dangling at least two or three of my 2nd round picks to draft Ty Dellandrea, a top center who ended up being drafted by Dallas in the #13 slot. The Isles had picks 11 and 12 so they possibly would have agreed to trade their #12 selection for a package of 2nd-round picks had Bergevin made the offer.

It now seems that talks of Pacioretty heading to San Jose have calmed down since he fired Pat Brisson as his agent and signed with Allan Walsh's group this weekend. There's still a good chance he'll start the season in Montreal.

As for free agent John Tavares he indicated to the Islanders that he'll be meeting with five teams within the next coming. Four of those teams are Toronto, Las Vegas, Tampa and San Jose. Vegas and San Jose have tons of cap space to accomodate Tavares' asking price. Toronto is his hometown team and he's always dreamed of one day playing for the Leafs. As for Tampa there's no state income tax and one of his best friends (Steve Stamkos) plays for them. However i don't know where Tampa would find the money to pay Tavares since they're already giving big $$ to Stamkos, Hedman and Kucherov. While i'd love to see him with the Leafs my guess is that he'll either wind up re-signing with the Islanders or end up in the western conference.

p.s. It's entire possible that the 5th team he'll be meeting are the habs.

 

[tiga]

Hope that one day you get to be GM.

Happy to learn you would like Habs to be succesfull, I too.

I think when you draft 7 centers in one draft year you are trying to address something.

I have seen none of the new young players live. On video highlights they all look like Gretzky...
The only one that trully impressed me was Dahlin, he looked like Orr.

I don't know if Zadina is NHL ready, .. Well, in fact the whole Habs roster, last year didn't look NHL ready.

Timmins said every team has lists, and of course they know the official ranking but there is a reason why they have scouts.

PK and Gallagher were not first rounders and the team has drafted and developped pretty well I think the players from latter rounds. Beaulieu and McCarron were both first round picks and they messed that up.
The Habs are not a contender they are just younger and more hopeful than last week.

Liked what Babcock said in Dallas, the Leafs lost in the playoffs to a team that lost in the next round, who lost in the next and lost to the next, so they are four steps from the Cup. Always found he had a nice way of explaining situations.

Getting JT would be huge but they would also need some help at the blueline to be contenders next year. Althow they did set a franchise record for the regular season, the only thing that means anything is the Cup, just ask Ovi.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Tiga,

If the team is going to go young, the best thing to do now is to trade Price and Pacioretty for some younger talent. Allow the whole roster to grow and gel into a cohesive championship calibre unit, and get rid of the older, overpaid albatrosses who are just spare parts until that happens. In other words, tear it down, build it back up from the foundation, not from the first floor.

 

[tiga]

Still don't think a tear down is in the cards, i think you need the older guys for guidance, Max is leaving and Weber will be the next capitaine du bateau.
Look in your backyard, the Rangers still have King Henry on the payroll.

 

[tiga]

I would also like to add the paying customer in Montreal will rather see Price in goal behind a bad Habs team than Zach Fucale.
What you really need is a younger and better farmteam. That's the future. What is a bonus now is that team is not in Hamilton or Saint-John, but only a métro ride away in Laval and has a new coach I beleive in.

 

[tiga]

Really liked that quote from Brian Burke: "Two hardest GM jobs in the NHL are Toronto and Montreal, Montreal is hardest cause you are stupid twice. In French and in English." He then added: "In Toronto you're only stupid once, but you're stupid a lot".
Think i will get that tatooed next to my Ch logo I've got on my heart.
Well, the Mtl part...i don't need a Toronto tatoo... Lol.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Tiga,

If the team is going to go young, the best thing to do now is to trade Price and Pacioretty for some younger talent. Allow the whole roster to grow and gel into a cohesive championship calibre unit, and get rid of the older, overpaid albatrosses who are just spare parts until that happens. In other words, tear it down, build it back up from the foundation, not from the first floor.

The time to trade Pacioretty was last year when his value was at its highest & he was still two years away from free agency. Now it'll be harder to trade him since his value is at its lowest ever and he'll be an unrestricted free agent next season. But no doubt he will get traded. However the habs won't get as much back had they traded him last year. Thus the reason why they couldn't get more than Max Domi for Alex Galchenyuk. Galchenyuk's value had never been lower than it was now. He had to be traded now or hold on to him and gamble that he'd find his scoring touch again. Bergevin figured acquiring a player such as Max Domi was the better gamble.

As for Carey Price good luck finding a team who'll want to take his albatross of a contract. This is the season when his new 8-year/$84 million US contract kicks in. The annual cap hit is $10.5 million. Ouch!!!! He'll be 31 years old when the new season starts and his numbers have been steadily declining over the past couple of seasons. He's also getting injured more frequently and last year had to deal with concussion issues. Considering that goaltenders are a dime-a-dozen around the league and there are a lot of good quality goaltenders available at a fraction of the price of Price's contract (no pun intended) i don't see many teams around the league being able to fit in Price's big long-term contract. Especially for a goaltender.

It would make more sense if they traded the aging Shea Webber whose equally huge contract will only expire in 2016, the same year Price's contract is due to expire. Webber will soon be 33 years old and spent a good part of last season injured. That's not a good thing when the aging process starts to take over. Only PK Subban has a higher cap number (Webber's is nearly equal to Victor Hedman's) across the league among defencemen. The problem with Webber isn't his annual salary of $6 million US, which the habs have no problem paying. It's his annual cap hit of nearly $8 million, which along with Carey Price's cap hit eats up a lot of the team's cap total. Having two players in their 30's (especially when one is a goaltender) is never good for a team going nowhere and among the worse in the league with no light at the end of the tunnel.

Trading Webber to a team needing to get to the cap floor would make more sense. However, the return might not be as good as expected since there aren't that many teams out there struggling to make it to the cap floor.

It's a big problem for Marc Bergevin. But he's the one who got the team in this mess in the first place. He has no one else to blame but himself.

 

[tiga]

Man you guys just repeat the same stuff over and over...

 

[Kasey Jones]

He was ranked #18 by The Hockey News, which i consider hockey's bible. Other draft lists (such as Central Scouting) had him at various spots.

The first thing i said after he was picked was why didn't Montreal trade their pick away or swap it? He very likely still would have been available somewhere after the top 10 picks. So i texted my NHL insider in Vegas and he told me he had learned that Montreal had indeed tried to flip their pick but didn't have any takers among the top 15 teams picking.

But still.....

By the way i'm hearing that Max Pacioretty is likely heading to San Jose.

He wasn't getting past Arizona at #5... They also "reached" to pick a lower rated center in that spot. Center's are hard to find. If you need one, you have to draft him. A ballsy pick by the Habs. Only time will tell if it was the right choice...