How to quit the Hobby/Addiction?

[gambler]

resentment

glad to c u made it thruogh the Ides of March. I did not. Easter seems to have an effect on me.

One thing comes to mind. I was at an aa meeting and gave an older guy a ride home and he mentioned to watch out 4 justifiable resentments #one problem with recovering alcoholics. I understood the words but didnt really know until it was too late because once I started acting on a liftime of resentments I have estanged myself from most of the human race. I now suffer from a veriety of emotional storms, not as bad as they used to be but still suffer.

To have a loving relationship with someone now seems to be impossable. I met a real hot girl she says ok one time $200.00. (karma)

Born victim. I just cant play it strait. YET

I have considered the other happiness, to figure out what it is that the Gods contimplate, but im not ready 4 heaven just yet, I'm a human being because I love it sometimes.

fuck its tough. I just hope my daughter doesent get the same disease.

Lonely
Regards

 

[erase]

glad to c u made it thruogh the Ides of March. I did not. Easter seems to have an effect on me.

Thanks for the wishes - spring is indeed tough (seems the warm weather - with all its associated visual treats and return to a more active lifestyle really get the hormones going...) somehow I managed to get through without falling off the wagon, although it was close a few times. The difference between this March and, say, last August is that in August I would have started scouring the web for my date for hours and then going out on that date, regardless of the cost in terms of time or whatever. More recently I've glanced at some ads and, although I was certainly tempted, managed to slap myself back to reality and do the stuff I had to do instead. The payoff has been that I survived a few tough patches at work, even had a few really good things happen, and also manage to get through what would have been some rough financial times (finances even actually starting to look good).

One thing comes to mind. I was at an aa meeting and gave an older guy a ride home and he mentioned to watch out 4 justifiable resentments #one problem with recovering alcoholics. I understood the words but didnt really know until it was too late because once I started acting on a liftime of resentments I have estanged myself from most of the human race. I now suffer from a veriety of emotional storms, not as bad as they used to be but still suffer.

I'd never heard the term "justifiable resentments", but I googled it and it's a good point. A lot of my SP "missions" (to borrow the term used by meth addicts when hours or days are swallowed up seeking a high - seems very appropriate) were fueled by my being pissed off that my wife was being cold, or abusive, or whatever. Those things may well have been worthy of my resentment, but copping an SP was an escape that really was never going to address the problem and just made a whole bunch of new problems. A constructive strategy has been to try and remember that (as happens to be the case - it could be otherwise) I have been dealt a lot of really good cards in my life, and letting this compulsion screw that up (or prevent me from dealing with the problems I do have) would just be tragic.

To have a loving relationship with someone now seems to be impossable. I met a real hot girl she says ok one time $200.00. (karma)

I know this feeling - I'd recommend watching the videos linked by an earlier poster. One of the things the shrink (himself a recovered sex addict) talks about is how many sex addicts are really unable to deal with intimacy beyond the initial honeymoon period. I had to admit that I fall into this boat - those videos really helped me a lot to understand my situation. I can be really charming in the short term (if I do say so myself), but basically in a lot of ways I really don't know how to deal with women or relationships.

Born victim. I just cant play it strait. YET

When I've fallen off the wagon, and I may well do so again, the best strategy I've found is to just forget it and keep working to stay clean rather than wallowing in guilt and self-pity (although I've done plenty of that - it never helped).

I have considered the other happiness, to figure out what it is that the Gods contimplate, but im not ready 4 heaven just yet, I'm a human being because I love it sometimes.

If you mean "ending it all" I sincerely hope you're not serious, although my problems with compulsive hobbying have taken me closer than I ever would have imagined to levels of desperation I didn't think I could handle. It passed, and things got better.

fuck its tough. I just hope my daughter doesent get the same disease.

I can relate - I've had the same thoughts about my kids. Indeed I can say that a lot of my own sexual compunctions can be traced to finding porn in my dad's closet... (not to absolve my own responsibility). One of the perverse, half-joking thoughts that made me really the depth of my problem was wondering whether any incall or MP providers offered babysitting services (you know, like they do at spas and such - hell, probably at some casinos).

One thing I imagine sometimes is how much I would never want my son's life to be messed up like mine was - I have to overcome this to know that it would be possible in his case as well. I'm pretty sure there's a genetic propensity (but it's only that - a tendency and not a sure thing) that can be passed on - we have to give our kids the tools to recognize risky behavior and avoid the traps we fell into.

Good luck, and thanks for posting. The half hour I spent thinking about what you said and writing this post is a half hour I didn't spend looking at porn... (something I'm still struggling with).

e

 

[minotaur24]

No more mister nice guy

A very interesting thread, erase.

I'd like to share a bit of my own experience, which is different to yours but covers some of the same issues. I've been seeing a psychologist (actually an analyst) for nearly five years, and my "addiction" to sex with SP is part of our ongoing discussion. Through the therapy, I've learned to deculpabilize (is that the right word?) myself. When I first got involved with SPs I had been married for ten years to an absolutely delightful person... but somehow getting involved with SPs became an obsession, along with a heavy preoccupation with internet (and pre-internet) porn. My wife discovered my activities and we agreed I would seek therapy, but then she got sick and eventually passed away from the disease.

This left me feeling very guilty and worried about my sexual proclivities. I didn't return to SPs for about a year, but then began again, a few times. I was still racked by a kind of guilt when I started seeing my psychoanalyst. I wasn't raised with a heavy religious or moral background, but I am sensitive to feminist and humanist preoccupations.

When I entered therapy, I slowly began to realize that my "obsession" with underground sex was a part of me that I had excised from myself that was clamouring to be recognized again - my shadow self, if you like. I had never had a part of my life where I "cruised" women or even dated heavily. I went almost directly from being single to my first long term relationship and from there into my marriage. I was a "nice guy". Part of me needs to "be bad" (according to my own definitions). My obsession with sex and with SPs seems to form part of this shadow self.

So I've come to recognize that this obsession actually plays a positive role in my life. Now it is true that, unlike you, I have no family obligations since my wife's death, although financially the obsession has caused some problems at times. Like your own experience, the obsessive behaviour follows a cycle - after visiting an SP I feel satiated and satisfied for a while and not terribly interested in going back to SPs, but slowly the "need" for an encounter with an SP creeps back until it dominates my landscape and I feel compelled to set up another encounter.

I have a lifestyle very different to yours, with very little in the way of direct commitments to other people, and yet I am also subject to these bouts of obsessive behavior. So it can't only be about stress and lifestyle and the relationships one is in, whether abusive or supportive. I think it has to do with a part of oneself one has "shut out" of one's being and that "wants back in". Being in therapy hasn't made it go away, on the contrary, it has rather made me more accepting of this part of my behavior. I understand there can be issues of "being out of control", but this is also a result of an effort to control - in that sense, controlling behaviours that seek to "supress" the impulses only make the problem worse.

As someone who has made major decisions to reshape my life, to exclude people who are abusive towards me, I cannot but agree with those who suggest that you may need to look at your family life situation and make some changes. But I have my doubts that the "cure" to the problem of obsessive recourse to SPs lies in those changes alone. I think this is probably part of who you are, and you have to accept that too.

It's not such a terrible thing, even though it's socially frowned upon. I sometimes think that seeing SPs is "morally" better (more respectful of the other person) than "sleeping around", given that the latter often means leading one's partners into a series of deceptions and half-truths if one is not really interested in a long term relationship. Seeing SPs when one is a committed relationship is more problematic than when one is single, and I have no final answers to this dilemna. Perhaps some of us are not meant to be in "unique couple" relationships - I have been exploring other options, but given social expectations of monogamy, this is not easy to set up.

 

[wookie]

[...] but somehow getting involved with SPs became an obsession, along with a heavy preoccupation with internet (and pre-internet) porn.

[...] my "obsession" with underground sex was a part of me that I had excised from myself that was clamouring to be recognized again - my shadow self, if you like. I had never had a part of my life where I "cruised" women or even dated heavily. I went almost directly from being single to my first long term relationship [...]. I was a "nice guy". Part of me needs to "be bad" (according to my own definitions). My obsession with sex and with SPs seems to form part of this shadow self.

[...] Like your own experience, the obsessive behaviour follows a cycle - after visiting an SP I feel satiated and satisfied for a while and not terribly interested in going back to SPs, but slowly the "need" for an encounter with an SP creeps back until it dominates my landscape and I feel compelled to set up another encounter.

[...] Perhaps some of us are not meant to be in "unique couple" relationships - I have been exploring other options, but given social expectations of monogamy, this is not easy to set up.

Wow... Beside the fact that you write way better then I can, I could have written this myself. I feel the exact same way.

 

[raptor]

Erase, when I read your posts, even though I am not really into hobbying, I feel like it is me writing inf front of the computer. I have the same "symptoms" as you have, and before writing my story I wanna say I am really happy for you gettin along better with it now.

The difference between and the major part of this forum is that I am in my ealry 20's. I have been reading MERB for a while now, but I do not post a lot. I have never met an escort before. I have been into strip clubs in the past, but it has been a while now since I have not gone there.

Here is how it all started:

I can not remember at what time the problem appeared in the first place. I remember going first to a strip club at 17 years old, or maybe 18 years old, with some friends, just to have some fun with the boys, and I was in a relationship with a girl at work in the same time. It had just started. It was probably Mid-december up in 2004 (if I am not mistaken). I was the happiest man on earth, healthy, good grades at school, good friends and a new "perfect" girlfriend. Our relationship had been great till the end of summer 2005, about 8 months later. I started school (was entering University), was founf alone in class, not many friends, not to say none. Classes were boring, I live in the West Island, and it took me 1h30 mins to get to them and same time to came back (car + metro). The program was not quite what I was looking for. I dropped school at mid-semester approximately, found a job in a calling center in a few weeks, since was still living at home and decided since I was not at school I had to pay rent (which was okay since it would have cost me a lot more than what they were asking for).

From november 2005 to august of the next year, I worked full time, but was tired of customer service over the phone and wanted to get back to school, in another branch. In the winter, the company I worked for used to cut the hours, and I worked less than 40 hours, so I needed to entertain myself, as I was working night shifts. Theere was a Videoself near where I live and started to rent comedy movies, at 2 am, getting back home after work. As I had seen most of them, I started to rent porn movies since it was not quite expensive. I was feeling a little bad since I had a the same girlfriend and it was not really "my type". When I used to bring back the movies to the store, I always said to myself: Okay, this is the last one, it was just because you were stressed and alone, next time you will find something better to do of your time". But I was back at the store in the next few days. I think the fact I was not seeing my girlfriend a lot had a lot to do with it, since my "libido" is pretty much on the red line at "yound adult" time and needed to jerk off. But the next days, I was back at the store. I kinda got used to it, so I stopped thinking about how I felt bad.

But know it got a little further: In mid-august, two weeks before starting school (everything had been settled of course), I was done with those movies since night shifts were done and it was summer, there was plenty of activities to do. Some folks were beginning the job at the calling center were joling about porn and strippers all the time and asked me to go and take a beer at the strip joint, which we did. Nothing happened as I can not let myself do this while into a relationship, but same process again. We went a few times, and then I used to go alone, and ended up in a booth with a stripper at SG. I sometimes went just to get a beer and cool off, but this time really did it, and can not really understand or explain why. I had this kind of excitement/stress as I was going up the stairs with the girl, but I have no idea what it really represented and still do not know right now. While driving back home, I really felt bad as my "sex high" was now down, and had a lot of trouble sleeping. I do not live with my girlfriend, so she was not at home.

I said to myself this had really gone bad, but ended up in another club soing it with another club. It happened twice. After that, school had started back so I did not really have time to, so it was getting better. The sex excitement could not go off though, so internet became a good soluton to jerk off for free. Spent hours over the web watching pics and movies. Went back to strip club with friends over the winter after skiing, but never in a booth. I guess I had enough with internet as my girlfriend could not give me enough. Up to a few months ago now, I took all my courage, got myself together, and said everything to her, all the bad moves I had done. (with a letter, but of course she had questions, she cried, I died too and we talked a lot after.)

I truly made strong efforts not toing back, it lasted about 2 weeks and then I was back on the internet. Our relationship is not as good as it was in the "old" times, in 2004-2005, but better than it was when I was starting back school few years ago.

Now here I am today, still stuck with this internet porn addiction, trying to find some help. Financials are not a problem for me as I am not hobbying. Time is my problem. I get late and was never before that, I plan stuff which I finish not even doing and it really pisses me off. I really do not know how to get out of it, and I really love my girlfriend. I feel like I maybe jumed too fast on her, did not take the time else to date girls in clubs and bring them back home for the night or had the time to try escorts.

C'est un peu comme un désir non accompli, une étape que j'aurais voulu franchir mais qui est toujours en attente! Peut-être que je manque de confiance en moi...Un autre point à apporter est que quand j'ai commencé à sortir avec ma copine, je me trouvais physiquement plus beau, mieux dans ma peau, jamais gêné, toujours à l'aise car j'avais perdu bcp de poids et était comme un nouveau jeune homme. Aujourd'hui j'ai repris un peu de poids et n'ai pas la même confiance.

Today, I am still looking for a solution. I can not go on with my life as it is. I have to focus on my school, my girlfriend and work too. Time is killing me with my internet porn.

I was thinking maybe calling a specialist, the one mentionned in thsi thread, insurance could maybe cover that or if not, it is worth the money if I can live a better life afterwards.

Any suggestions?

Edit: Sorry for my english if it has syntax error, I did my best. I am initially a french talking person.

 

[professorbig]

Free counselling in montreal

I was thinking maybe calling a specialist, the one mentionned in thsi thread, insurance could maybe cover that or if not, it is worth the money if I can live a better life afterwards.

Any suggestions?

If you are under 25, you can contact Head and Hands, which provides non judgmental youth counseling in the NDG..free http://www.headandhands.ca/
The Argyle Institute also provides counseling on a sliding scale (ability to pay).
These I found with a short internet search for "counseling free montreal "
good luck.

 

[erase]

Glad to hear the great discussion that is still going on, but hope all involved progress with their issues.

After chilling on this for a while, I think the thing that really bugs me about all of it (now that the financial is better) is just the obsessive thinking about sex. There have been times when I really should have been concentrating on and enjoying the moment (bouncing my kid on my knee or whatever) but I was already thinking about sex (setting up an SP encounter later, or getting onto some internet porn). Things are better now, but still have to watch it.

e

 

[gambler]

the itch

I quote Bob Dylans song I think Some day baby

There are so many good things in life why was I born to love you.
Some day baby you wont worry for me any more. (dont know what that means)

To the 25 year old guy. I can tell you one thing, the more you scratch it the more it will itch untill you just burn all the time. I think you are at a crossroads. (Led zepplin?) Internet porn is the worse.

One good thing is you got a choice, get on any train you like. The one I was on crashed in a flash just like that and Im still on the ground. (the MassageTherapy actually helps, just have to stay in the shallow end, Thanks to some of u Ladies. Just wish I knew how to make friends)

Quote another song if I may.
Johny Cash- Hurt
I could start again I would save myself I would find a way. ( I Know what that means) at 25 I was so stoned .

You mite try The Tripitica definatly worth a look.

Money is not the problem (yet)for me its the lonelyness

BTW: What is it with the the wind in all the songs. Wind cries Mary-Blowin in the wind-Answere lies in the whispering wind. Gone with the wind- I dont get it. I sit and listen and its like the earths talking but dont know the her language.

Guess I'm a good bad example as some tell me.

Drugs, drinking video game were only the tip of the iceberg.
This is a good form as a little reflection is a good thing.

Nice to relate. Dont know what to do with the rest of my life.

You know I really didnt know any better untill recently now it seems too late.

I'll stop now addicts can stay in their heads and talk for days.

Peace

 

[JH Fan]

Guys, any of you tried skydiving ?

You need to do something else, other activities.
And stop feeling guilty about sex.

Anyone with his mind in 2008 knows it is a need like eating, sleeping, etc...
Some of us needs more others, less.

Addiction often comes from having only one 'activity'.

There is many activities in life that will get u a rush and speaking from experience, talking about it constantly will not help.

I have always been 'addicted' to women, it has shapped my life, including social life completely but now I do something about it.

First and foremost is to give sh*t to anyone who thinks his or her addiction is better (like shopping for instance) or ..that I am this or that. Anyone who see me with kids knows I'm one of the best dad I can be. I give my attention to people when I am with them.

But I always and probably will always go for wild things in my life.

Try skydiving ! scuba diving, martial arts, careful of firearms (to me the biggest addiction), but... go hunting, boxing, hockey, etc...

 

[JH Fan]

Personally I don't feel guilty about sex. The bad feeling comes from the lost of control of oneself and the time (you'll never get back) and money you're losing.

Then focus on something else ...sometime !

As for the money ? money itself can be an addiction and there isn't much that doesn't cost anything nowadays. Don't you think ?

Maybe you should get in touch with Ollie then !

He seems to be the perfect exemple of someone who's controlling his legendary urge vs. a reasonable (that makes sense) budget to spend on it.

Anyway ! you know more what you should do.

I know that's what I've done and it helped.

The urge is always there and believe me...all day long just to look at my coworker (god she's hot). But I have many activities that gives me enough adrenaline.

 

[Ben Dover]

Try this: as soon as you start to think obsessively about sex, go masturbate.

Good advice for people reading this thread... Masturbation has saved me at least tens of thousands of dollars over the years. No hotel, always on time.... so many pros and just a couple cons..

Take matters into your own hands gentlemen...

BD

 

[erase]

Good advice for people reading this thread... Masturbation has saved me at least tens of thousands of dollars over the years. No hotel, always on time.... so many pros and just a couple cons..

My own - uh - extensive experience bears this out. The only thing I would add is that, for me, masturbation *without porn* is a lot healthier. With porn, I can go literally for hours (so even if the money is saved, the time is still lost). Also I often found that porn was a precursor to hooking up with an SP. Even without the SP, my typical porn-wank session leaves me somewhat exhausted and feeling guilty about the time I blew.

The best (not to turn this into an intimate discussion of my wanking habits) is a five minute whack in bed (on those rare occasions I have the privacy) followed by a ten minute nap. After this, I feel great! Rested and all compulsive sexual thoughts on hold - for a while at least...

I should probably get more creative about porn-less wanking in the bathroom, because the only time I ever do this now is when I'm alone at home. Otherwise the only privacy I get is in my office, where it's just as easy to while away the hours looking at porn.

e

 

[erase]

Summertime and the living is not easy

I also have to say that the onset of summer has made things tough - all the hot Montreal women in various levels of skimpy dress are certainly a catalyst for that which I am trying to avoid. I keep telling myself that SP encounters rarely correspond to fantasies stimulated by viewing a chick on the street.

Probably best to use these real-life "visuals" for some of that porn-less wanking I ought to be doing more of.

e

 

[Salmacis]

I keep telling myself that SP encounters rarely correspond to fantasies stimulated by viewing a chick on the street.

Isn't that the truth, most of the time.
Problem is after a few encounters that come very close to the fantasy, you keep looking for the next best thing.
Then there's always the thrill to see what's on the other side of the door, and what direction the session goes.

 

[gambler]

U know I saw that 20% of patients on medication for parkinsins develope a cumpulsive addiction of one sort or an other. Now when I think about it my heavy internet porn days happened just after taking paxil for a while?? Interesting coincidence.- You have to have the, what ever it is, but that stuff its like it compulsion on steroids. Anyway I think I've had enough of the road to nowhere. Skydiving anyone? Its true the real thing is rarely like the fantasy ive said to myself this isnt like I thought it would be, Then again I had a girl friend once who blew my head the she blew my mind (paxil days too). Isnt passion something. You know at my age girls are ashamed to have sex with me. Isnt time something. My brothers on medication smokes and gambles. Dam, an other mine in the mindefield to watch out for.

 

[erase]

I used to feel "alive" after a good session,experience with an sp (even with the above average ones, not just the very pretty/interesting ones). Sometimes that good feeling would last a few days. Now...

One of the reasons I knew I had a problem was that, right when I came with an SP (literally within seconds of climax), this crushing depression and guilt would slam down. At that moment, I just wanted the girl to leave or to leave myself (but I never let on - trying to be polite etc.) Keep in mind that, when I was hobbying, I shouldn't have been (married, kids, better things to do with the money etc).

It's like there were two realities: one before, and one after. What made sense in terms of the most rational course of action was completely different in these two realities...

As mentioned by a previous poster (and the impression I get from reading about addiction), depression and addiction are intimately linked. In a way, going for an SP was like a form of self-medication for my depression. However it became destructive in a way that just made the depression worse in the long run.

e

 

[erase]

U know I saw that 20% of patients on medication for parkinsins develope a cumpulsive addiction of one sort or an other. Now when I think about it my heavy internet porn days happened just after taking paxil for a while?? Interesting coincidence.- You have to have the, what ever it is, but that stuff its like it compulsion on steroids. Anyway I think I've had enough of the road to nowhere. Skydiving anyone? Its true the real thing is rarely like the fantasy ive said to myself this isnt like I thought it would be, Then again I had a girl friend once who blew my head the she blew my mind (paxil days too). Isnt passion something. You know at my age girls are ashamed to have sex with me. Isnt time something. My brothers on medication smokes and gambles. Dam, an other mine in the mindefield to watch out for.

Addiction and depression and Parkinson's all involve the same parts of the brain, and meds for depression (like Paxil) and also ADHD affect those systems. In my own experience I think it's a fine balance between the meds helping compulsive sexuality and fueling it.

These systems in the brain are the foundations for motivation and decision-making. The only way out for me was to remember that I could still make whatever decision I wanted... (does this make sense?)

Making the decision to pull out of my internal decision to see an SP, when I was getting into "binge mode" was the equivalent of making the decision to walk over hot coals. However this was just my screwed up basal ganglia talking...

This is without a doubt a sickness... (note that I don't doubt it's perfectly possible for many to hobby without getting 'sick' - likewise it's possible to develop an unhealthy compulsion around virtually anything: shopping, gambling, surfing the net, posting on forums, drugs, hobbying, sex...)

e

 

[erase]

i'm writing a mook about the other side of the mirror...and I wrote exactly what erase just said...

Wow! This really does capture the essence of this (I didn't steal it from you, honest!)

Anyhow, here's a stab at a translation:

"From my experience with the people on this forum, I realize that many use sex like any other drug: to escape reality, forget your pain, relax... But like all drugs, it's a painful and destructive process. If Someone wants to take drugs, whatever the substance, he's free to do so and the consequences of his actions will be more or less happy depending on the choices he makes. But that's what not moves us forward in life.

The art of sex itself, is the art of controlling the loss of control - if you don't realize this, sex won't get you anywhere because contrary to what most believe, sex brings you no concrete returns in life. I've already had all the adventures that a person could ever dream of - I've attained almost all my desires and fantasies - all of them. But I'm not sure that this has left me anything..."

Bitchelor, 2008

Very well expressed imho!

Sex is instant pleasure - it arrives immediately and most of the happiness from it is gone just as fast. A lot of the money and time I've spent on hobbying or other sexual pursuits could have been spent on something more lasting. Any regrets I have are indeed due to the loss of control, and the fact that I sacrificed tangible and lasting improvements to my life for the sake of transient pleasures. In moderation this is would have been ok, but at the level of excess I practiced it's just all wrong.

My own personal theory of depression is that quick pleasures like sex, shopping, or food (not to mention all the other chemical drugs), can be a form of self-medication for many people (probably including me) who suffer from some kind of chronic depression. At the risk of sounding like a preacher, all of the things that really brought longer term happiness or satisfaction to my life were not this kind of instant indulgence. I have nothing against occasional hedonism, but this kind of self-medicating use of sex can easily slide into a situation where any pursuit that seems like too much work or delayed gratification just doesn't seem worth it when you can just go and enjoy the instant pleasures of sex. Instant gratification like this can just short-circuit all the mechanisms in our brain that are normally supposed to motivate us to work or make sacrifices to achieve some useful goal...

To a certain extent I am in a position where I could hobby quite a bit without compromising my lifestyle (although I am married and the stress from the betrayal aspect and secret double accounting were killing me). However the only reason I have the resources for this are the years of hard work where I lived reasonably responsibly and was not actively living out my sexual compulsions. If I hadn't cut down on the time and money spent on sex, my entire life might have collapsed by now.

 

[erase]

what is an imho?And i know you didnt steal it from me..im writing now..lol that part is on my webpage...but not a lot of pple wrote it...well..when ill done ill give you a copy...i saw enough things in my live and lived enough things to be able to compare some pple from the other..so yeah its my point of view..but i know to tell something in an "objective"way

Sorry - imho is "in my humble opinion"... I'm actually not much of a fan of these silly internet acronyms (as you can tell from my verbose posts...)

Where is your web site? Can you post the link?

Thanks!

e

 

[erase]

I am new at this game and the first time I tried it I felt great for a couple of days after. Now i have a couple of rendez vous under my belt and the anticipation of the meeting is great, the sex is incredible and the problem starts a day or 2 after. Let me ask you guys, does anyone else feel bad for the girls?? All I can think of is this 20ish year old girl has been down on her luck and has one way or another found a job in this industry. I mean, if I walked by any of these girls on the street, they wouldn't even see me never mind say hi, now because I have $180 she will suck my dick?? Does this make sence, anyone else feel the same??

Man this is a really good point, and funny nobody discussed it earlier - I've talked a lot about guilt, but mostly related to my own family and not with respect to the girls. I suppose there are many ways one could rationalize this to avoid any guilt on the part of the provider. I think in my own mind I always considered an SP encounter to be like a visit to a highly specialized spa, and tried to treat the provider with the respect due to any professional. I have experienced varying degrees of connection with different girls, and never really thought about it in degrading 'suck my dick' terms (even though that particular act may have taken place - I'm not criticizing your choice of language). I have always assumed (and I might be quite wrong) that most of the girls start out being quite open about sex and find that this is a way to make a *lot* of money (compared with what could be earned in a more conventional job).

A thing I'd wondered about is the weird disconnect between the way prostitution is portrayed in the media as being largely based on human trafficking and dominated by street gangs. I don't really get any hint of this from my own experiences or reading these forums, but maybe I'm just naive. I used to see posts all the time about girls who switched agencies for whatever reason - never heard anything about a 'pimp' hunting them down. Is there any of this in Montreal? (obviously it might be a sensitive issue to discuss...)

In the end I think this is a two-way street between consenting adults. I don't feel guilty for the provider any more than I think she should feel guilty about the fact that 'hobbying' might be a problem for me.

I would however avoid any agency I thought was exploitive...

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