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IMPORTANT! -- SP's & all : PLEASE READ

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EagerBeaver

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traveller_76 said:
How about putting as much energy entertaining the possibility it's legit?t76

Some inquiries have been made that will hopefully confirm/deny the story as legit. More on this to come.

I hope everyone remembers that on the Internet anyone can say anything and there are many scams, and if this is a "sympathy scam" it would by no means be the first of its kind.
 

YouVantOption

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EagerBeaver said:
Some inquiries have been made that will hopefully confirm/deny the story as legit. More on this to come.

I hope everyone remembers that on the Internet anyone can say anything and there are many scams, and if this is a "sympathy scam" it would by no means be the first of its kind.

Indeed. Chain mail increased in volume immeasurably with the growth of email and online discussion services.

For example, the endless promises of vast wealth from Nigerian widows is a new version of a centuries-old scam known as The Spanish Prisoner. Email is merely a method of transmission replacing hand-written letters. I'm told the criminals behind these scams now make use of business networking sites such as LinkedIn.

One site that is very helpful in debunking rumours and scams is http://snopes.com/

I think EB is bang on the money in terms of his skepticism of online assertions. I also think Traveller 76 is entirely correct in saying that even if the post in question is fake, SPs should be vigilant, aware, educated and informed of the way in which they can conduct themselves in their business dealings so as to avoid any pitfalls, let alone life-threatening situations.

We saw just hours ago a post from Excentrix Man: "Warning-----warning To All Agencies" about a deadbeat who left a call without paying.

Yet, we as clients on this board sometimes balk at SPs who require money up-front at the start of a 'date', or masseuses who run down a price list of options. These things are irksome to those of us who conduct ourselves in an appropriate and honest fashion in such dealings, but there isn't an SP on this board, or not, who doesn't have a story to tell about clients who took advantage of the situation and the girl.
 

YouVantOption

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EagerBeaver said:
A friend of mine recently acquired a taser gun and although they are hard to get a hold of, if I were an SP I would try to get one.

Tasers are illegal in this country.

An SP should carefully balance her clear need for protection and the problems that she or he might encounter were they to be found with one in their possession by the police.

Cops often interact with escorts knowing full well who they are speaking with, and neither a search or arrest intended nor made. Other times, a quick search takes place and minor amounts of drugs, if discovered, destroyed on the spot.

Carrying an illegal weapon (even for self-defense to which the police would be sensitized and maybe empathetic), would be a problem they would not likely overlook.
 

YouVantOption

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traveller_76 said:
Ok, do me a favour: do a Canadian media search. You can use a tool like Bibliobranché/Eureka which is accessible from the Bibliothèque Nationale website if you're a member or from any university if you're alumni. Type in 'prostitute' and 'rape'. ... Find out how many brutal rapes have been reported to police. Get back to me when you're done living in your pink-tinted world where the media gives a shit when a prostitute is brutally raped.

Sorry for sounding harsh. In case nobody has noticed, I care that these things go unreported and I care - and am hurt - that people brush off the stories as scams when girls dare to report them on boards like this - the only place where such stories are run because the story-writers are the victims themselves, not journalists who have bosses who tell them which stories are newsworthy or not.

t76

The media? I'm generally not a big fan of using that term, nor how it is often used by others; it has become much too generalized to mean much, and is usually found in the context of someone with a particular viewpoint blaming a sub-section (generally of an opposing viewpoint) of the myriad sources that in aggregate form the media. In other words, The Media does not act in a coherent fashion about which any statement of political intent can reasonably apply. (How's that for a generalization? We can open another thread should you wish to debate these points). Point taken though about how assignment editors work.

The first throttle-point is law enforcement. Some of their inertia is rationalized if not reasonable ... but also so unfortunate, and deterring. Doubtlessly there are many SPs who have been raped but don't file a police report expecting they will be subjected to additional humiliation were they to do so.

From the CBC backgrounder on Robert Pickton

Rebecca Guno, a drug addict and prostitute, vanished from Vancouver's downtown eastside in June 1983. Her name was the first of 61 that would eventually be placed on the list of women to disappear mysteriously from the drug-infested area over the two decades that followed.
It wasn't until 19 years later, early in 2002, that charges were laid in any of the cases. The charges came not long after police focused their efforts on a farm in Port Coquitlam, outside Vancouver.

...

Families of the missing women have accused Vancouver police of mishandling the investigation from the beginning by ignoring evidence that a serial killer was at work. The RCMP became involved in 2001.

The families also say police neglected the cases because many of the women were prostitutes and drug addicts.

It wasn't until August of 2001 that Vancouver police began hinting that a serial killer could be responsible for the disappearance of the missing women. At the time 31 women had vanished, but four had been accounted for and two of those were confirmed dead.

Dr. Elliott Leyton, an anthropology professor at Memorial University in St. John's, Newfoundland, who wrote a book on serial killers called Hunting Humans, says that police are rightly reluctant to identify serial murders because public panic often follows.

"Responsible people have to be careful about making wild pronouncements about possible serial killers," Leyton says. "And when we are not sure if it is true, then it is inappropriate to throw people into a state of panic. Prostitution is a very dangerous profession and many of the people in it are wanderers and not well-connected to any conventional system of government controls or social services. So they can drift away from the system without being noticed for a very long time, even when nothing may have actually happened to them."
 

AllOverHer

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Good Morning,
Rather than worrying about the war in the world that was the first thing that came to my mind this morning,

The victim who posted her story on perb (Naughty NaAdia). Does she have a web site? Is she an established indy?

I was woundering why would she make up this story?

The money request did not come from her but did she comment on it?
 

Gotsome

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AllOverHer said:
Good Morning,
Rather than worrying about the war in the world that was the first thing that came to my mind this morning,

The victim who posted her story on perb (Naughty NaAdia). Does she have a web site? Is she an established indy?

I was woundering why would she make up this story?

The money request did not come from her but did she comment on it?
yeah, she posted another message on perb and terf about it

https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=81061

Basically what she says in a nutshell is that she thanks for everyone`s support, is on painkllers, tried to see another client but went to the hospital instead, she responds to the naysayers that she did not ask personally for money, but then thanked to those who wanted to give and then offered her email address, twice, as well as her preference for paypal that will be opened on monday.

In all, it smells like a scam to me
 

Techman

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AllOverHer, yes she does have a web site. I will not post it here but if you do a yahoo or Google search on her e-mail address you will find it easily. I mentioned in an earlier post that I found it unusual that her site mentions nothing about these events, even though it has a blog page as well as a guestbook/feedback page that anyone could post on which would not require the webmaster to make changes.
 

Techman

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I did run her site address through the whois directory and it comes up with nothing. But running her e-mail addy through Yahoo search comes up with her web site as the only hit.
 

EagerBeaver

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Techman,

Regarding your point about her website not being updated recently to discuss the various events she discusses at length on PERB, it occurred to me that she may be a legit SP who was never raped, who allowed the scam artists to use her handle to perpetrate the scam. It would be very easy to pay her a pittance for the handle, and tell her to go find another one. Among the thousand or so fishy things about her posts is she says she has been working 12 years yet the PERB handle only traces back to February 2007.

Maxima previously mentioned that the local media has not run anything on this story and I have find it extremely hard to believe that 3 men would have committed the crime she alleged, and been held without bail with nary a mention of it in the media. What usually happens with most major newspapers and I know this from having worked with reporters on stories is they dispatch a beat reporter to the criminal court and they get a list of arraignments that are on the docket. I see no way that this could have been missed by the media so some inquiries have been put out to the media regarding this story (I won't say by who).

It also occurred to me that Nadia could have been mugged, robbed or possibly even raped, but exaggerated the whole thing in order to address a preexisting financial problem. Under this scenario the $40 she was carrying actually becomes $4,000, etc. and now she cannot make ends meet. There are more holes in her story and in her posts then there are in a large swiss cheese factory, and they have all been recounted ad nauseum in the last 3-4 pages of this thread (and in fact there are others that have not even been mentioned).
 
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CaptRenault

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SeeCupRider said:
...On the subject of frauds though, I think T76 does have a good point. Let's not forget that one of the things that great fiction is supposed to do is help one gain understanding of the human condition. Insofar as it rings true, fiction can give you insight. In this case, the "story" is quite plausible and collusion between guy A and guy B and C is potentially as ingenious as it is reprehensible. Sad to say it but I don't think any tale of human depravity and visciousness is "bad" for a naive younger SP to have read.

... Being taken in by a fraudulent story insofar as it makes you think though isn't a problem, it's no different from trying to "learn" from a fictional tale...

I already responded above to the idea that Nadia's story, whether true or not, is useful as a warning to escorts:

CaptRenault said:
...Also, I don't agree with the thought that some have expressed that, whether or not the story is true, this thread is useful as a device to warn escorts to be careful. Would any of you think that it would be a good idea for a client to make up a story about getting robbed by an escort (yes, it has happened) in order to warn other clients about being careful with their wallet when they meet an escort? I don't think so.

Furthermore, if Nadia's story is fake (and I believe that it is), then she is actually harming future real victims of real rapes, because it will make it easier for people to dismiss their stories as fake. For example, let's say that someone named "Jacqueline" was an actual well-known escort in Montreal. Let's say that she became the victim of a sensational rape and robbery, similar to what happened to Nadia and that she posted about it on MERB (which is probably not a good idea anyway). People would be much less inclined to believe her story because of what happened with Nadia.

And what about the problem of shilling? Should that be OK too, since it's not impossible that you can discover a great escort by reading a shill's post. Does the end justify the means? No, it doesn't. So I say it's not OK to make up stories and post them on a message board, no matter what noble intention you might have. The only possible exception to that rule is if you clearly identify your story at the beginning as fiction. Even then, it's better to post a fictional story in a section that is clearly marked "post your stories and fantasies in this section." Maybe PERB needs a new section like that. :rolleyes:
 

EagerBeaver

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Techman said:
I did run her site address through the whois directory and it comes up with nothing. But running her e-mail addy through Yahoo search comes up with her web site as the only hit.

So her website is the only advertising she is doing? Wouldn't the Yahoo search spit out her email on any site she is advertising on?
 
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EagerBeaver

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traveller_76 said:
I responded that I (and surely many more women on this forum) felt let down by the majority male-response looking for every possible reason as to why this story MUST be a fake.

Nobody said it MUST be a fake, but if you do not view it with extreme suspicion, then you are going to spend your life purchasing Brooklyn Bridges.
 

EagerBeaver

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CaptRenault said:
Furthermore, if Nadia's story is fake (and I believe that it is), then she is actually harming future real victims of real rapes, because it will make it easier for people to dismiss their stories as fake. For example, let's say that someone named "Jacqueline" was an actual well-known escort in Montreal. Let's say that she became the victim of a sensational rape and robbery, similar to what happened to Nadia and that she posted about it on MERB (which is probably not a good idea anyway). People would be much less inclined to believe her story because of what happened with Nadia.

In addition, if the story is fake and successful, it's very likely to encourage copycat scams of a similar nature on this Board and others, which is all the more reason to question it rather than pretend it's correct for purposes of debate as suggested by See Cup Rider. I looked at the PERB thread and everyone has accepted the story without question. It looks like a scam with this kind of storyline will work real really good over there.
 

EagerBeaver

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t76,

What's newsworthy is not the rape per se, but the story she tells (if that is what she also told police) and, in particular, the 3 guys being held without bail - one of them for just being an accomplice. It all adds up to news. Think about it. Newspapers are interested in good stories and if this story actually happened, it's a good story (in terms of selling newspapers, of course - it's a bad story for everyone in this biz).
 

Maxima

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EagerBeaver said:
Nobody said it MUST be a fake, but if you do not view it with extreme suspicion, then you are going to spend your life purchasing Brooklyn Bridges.

But the story was written with enough horrendous details that if you do not take it at face value, you run the risk to be accused of making light of NN's trauma in particular and branded as being "insensitive" to raped victims, and to the hardship of SPs in general.

Here is my question to the people who strongly believe in this story but only do lip service and are reluctant to send a single dime to help NN out: "How can you sleep at night?"
For those who believe in NN's story: PLEASE send her something, even a small amount of money at this time of need would be a good start, would it not?
 
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CaptRenault

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Daringly said:
...Even though this may or may not be a scam it is good to give young sp's a reminder there is some dangers and you should always use a common sense approach when meeting people. There are certain things you can do to cut down your risk.

But making up stories is definitely not a good way to provide safety reminders for escorts.
 

Techman

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t76, actually I figured that the CG ad was valid and that it put the story of the rape into question. As far as the story making the news...this was an extremely violent assault. Raped and torn up by the barrel of a gun. There is no way this would not have made the news. There are details that are just hard to accept. This lady charges 700 for a three hour date, according to her web site, and we are supposed to believe that someone payed her 4 and 6 thousand for overnights? And a new client at that?

About her web site...the site I found is for Vancouver, not Toronto. If anyone wants the address I will gladly send it by PM but I will not post it on the board. I had no problem finding it with a simple Yahoo search.
 

EagerBeaver

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t_76,

We have an expression in English: "if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, it must be a duck!" I don't know if you have the same kind of expression in French. But basically when many things are not adding up you cannot simply ignore the unanswered questions. I agree with Techman and Maxima, no way the story is ignored by the media IF IT OCCURRED AS WRITTEN IN HER POSTS. We don't know: (a) the story told to the police, if there was one, and what went into the police report; or (b) the real story of what happened. All that we have to compare to what the media saw are the posts she made on PERB.
 
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Maxima

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SeeCupRider said:
Even if I did believe the story, I would not send a dime. I am very generous IMO with charities but only give to registered charities through channels that I am 100% certain are genuine. If I lived in Vancouver, I would know that some of my money went to women's shelters that NN could go to for help. I sound like Ebenezer, don't I!?!

This is not "charity".

Women's shelters? No women's shelter was ever mentioned in her story. She would accept cash via paypal or via an in-trust account to be established by certain Perbites.
 

Doc Holliday

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Techman said:
About her web site...the site I found is for Vancouver, not Toronto. If anyone wants the address I will gladly send it by PM but I will not post it on the board. I had no problem finding it with a simple Yahoo search.

If it's the same girl, i see on her site that she offers a $50 discount to seniors & students. If it's your birthday, it's $100 off. First time i ever see this!
 
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