IMPORTANT! -- SP's & all : PLEASE READ

[Maxima]

.... I just seem to always take for the argument that gets less press - or route for the underdog...
t76

"Seem" is the right word. It seems that way but it's not entirely true. May I remind you that at least in the case of "HSV-1 vs HSV-2", you were surely not on the side of the underdog. And it turned out that the underdog simply got HSV 1.

 

[Maxima]

...this thread where we are disputing the validity of a story based on the underdog's word.

t76

It depends how you define underdog. If you go on P*rb and t*rf, anybody who has a hint of a question about the validity of NN's story is blasted away and branded as an insensitive uncivilized a**hole. Those so-called a**holes are underdogs there.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Maxima,

Some of those guys who were blasted on PERB posted somewhat crudely, but the bottom line is they are asking the same questions and no answers to those questions have been forthcoming from Nadia, Mlle Bijou, Isabelle or anyone else. I did find it highly inappropriate for Mlle Bijou and Isabelle, with still no answers to very legitimate questions (even if crudely worded), to be on the attack rather than going out and getting answers to these questions, especially with their money and reputations on the line. I don't think they realize that if this is a hoax, the potential damage to their newly adopted cause would be severe, as mentioned in some of the posts by Captain Renault above. None of any of this is making sense to me. The whole thing has been bizarre.

 

[CaptRenault]

Here`s one PERBite who is a bit dubious of Nadia`s story. His analysis make me think of the quote from Scottish novelist Sir Walter Scott: “Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.”

A few questions about the Nadia `situation` that make you go `hmmmm`....

Nadia;

I sincerely hope you are able to deal with your current difficulties and that the generosity of the Perb Community helps you in your time of need.

Perb has had it`s numerous tales of woe that turned out to be scams and because of that there will always be skeptics on the board.

Nadia is getting a lot of support but there are also a lot of doubters who are leary of any such tales. A couple of things stand out and I`m sure if you address them, it would quell some questions.

So... if you will permit... allow ole Cosmo to lob a few at you and, if you so desire, you can address them.

Such as,


I`ve spent the past year working hard to build a strong reputation.

If I`m working a normal month, I make in the neighbourhood o 10k a month.



You have returned to the business after going to school and have been doing well, making over $100,000 this past year (and none of it paid in taxes, at least not yet). Good for you. This speaks well to the service you provide.

My financial situation is in trouble because I spent all my savings on education, a condo, and helping a friend get a new roof to stop his house from flooding. I then became ill for 5 weeks and was unable to work. I did not foresee that coming. I SHOULD have kept at least 3 months living money seperate from the rest of my savings. That was stupid of me. That is why I`m already a month behind on rent and bills.


Okay. So you have tapped out your reserves and have left yourself short, counting on the steady flow of 10K per month.

Foolish, but not out of the realm of possibility.

You have managed to pay your education bills, help a friend with his leaky roof and buy a condo, taking on a mortgage in the process.

Very admirable.

But now, due to some addmited poor financial planning, you have missed a month of bills and.... ummm... rent?

What rent? You own your own condo now. Why are you still paying rent?

Maybe we are referring to your incall location.

But... and here is where things get a little odd... you talk about seeing your clients in a house. How the house was searched by the perpetrators. You then went out the back of the house and called police.

Is the incall a house???

This seems odd.

Maybe we read too much into it... or maybe your work location is the condo and you just call it a `house`... perhaps we focus too much on one word (like naughtygyrl recently said to me).

Nothwithstanding... this is no big deal. It is just an incall. You can get another.

I also need to move ASAP as this place is not safe and holds horrible memories for me now.


Hmmm... Okay... so it wasn`t your incall where all this happened, is was your residence and now you have to move.

Glad we got that straightened out.

But don`t you mean you have to sell... you have to sell the condo you just bought?

Hmmm.

Again, maybe we focus too much on a word or two.

My financial situation is in trouble because I spent all my savings on education, a condo, and helping a friend get a new roof to stop his house from flooding. I then became ill for 5 weeks and was unable to work.

Okay... so here is the start of your financial difficulties.

In November, things were going great. I put a downpayment on a condo, paid for my 2 years of (very expensive) schooling in full, and paid for the re-roofing of my best friends house. Then I got very sick for 5 weeks. The flu, pneumonia, bronchitis, strep throat, you name it I got it. I had overextended myself financially (lesson #1!) and was in bad shape. My rent ended up unpaid, as did my lease and insurance etc.... During the first week of January, as I was recovering...

Okay... so now we can see the timeline. You bought a condo near the start of November, towards the end of November you got sick... and five weeks later, during the first week of January, you were recovering.

This means all of November`s bills were covered. That leaves just December and (approaching fast) the end of January for outstanding bills (and... ummm... rent).

I SHOULD have kept at least 3 months living money seperate from the rest of my savings. That was stupid of me. That is why I`m already a month behind on rent and bills.


Again with that rent comment. What rent? You buy a condo and it`s called a mortgage payment. Anyone who BUYS real estate NEVER calls it rent.

But I digress.

Where were we... oh yes... one month late on payments with another month fast approaching.

I tried seeing a client this morning as my car payment comes out Monday and will be repossessed if I miss this payment.


Huh? Repossessed because you missed one payment at the end of December....

Ummm... I don`t think so. Why, after one missed payment, would this be a concern?

My phone is basically disconnected ATM. For some reason some calls still come through, most get the disconnection message. I can call out though, so email me your number.



Seems to me there have been more than one month of financial issues here.

Hmmm.

First off, the 3 perpetrators have been arrested, taken in for questioning and being held without bail. WOOHOO!


The VPD holds daily press briefings and they talk about all arrests from the night before... particularly when citizens are held in jail without bail.

Being held without bail is one of those automatic disclosure items.

Also... as an incident that involves attacks on the sex trade... this gets discussed because the VPD is very PR motivated towards demonstrating how they are addressing sex trade worker assaults.

Funny it hasn`t appeared in the press briefings.

===========================

Like I said... just a couple of things that make the Perberts go hmmmm and creates the catalyst for the source of their doubt.

You seem to be in serious financial difficulties, but there seems to be more problems than one month of missed obligations with a second fast approaching.

These are longer term problems, which causes even more doubt to your tale and makes people wonder if they are getting the full (or real) story.

They all add up as fuel to the doubters fire.

As I said, I sincerely hope you are able to deal with your current difficulties Nadia and that the generosity of the Perb Community helps you in your time of need.

But have patience with the doubters. In this case, I believe they have some legitimate concerns.

 

[borsalino17]

sorry i dont believe this story specially about giving the $ to friend to fix a roof when you have no money you keep what you have in hope of better days

 

[shameemazizad]

this story sounds very fishy. first of all how does a woman making 4000 to 6000 per outcall not have any money leftover to restart. also, would she really be dumb enough to see the same man again. it makes no sense. but it does scare me and think what if this happened to a client. I mean imagine going to a new incall and having yourself robbed at gunpoint. also, how is that a such a gruesome rape/assault would not be in the newspapers and news media. there is no way that would not happen. if anything, it would be headline news. this is ridiculuous and obviously a scam to get money. unless i read it in the newspapers or saw her interview on television, i wouldn't believe this. if verified by investigative reporting , i would definately donate money and feel sorry for her. but as it stands, it seems she made up this terrible story, and this is just horrible to make up such a despicable story to fraud people out of money.

 

[CaptRenault]

With her latest post on PERB, I think Nadia is almost ready to throw in the towel and admit that her story is just that, a story. In particular, this declaration by Nadia makes me think that she is almost ready to admit that her story is not true. Though I am sure that she will maintain until the bitter end that she did this to help other escorts.

Look, this has all snowballed out of control. Why does there have to be all this drama and accusations? I was trying to do something GOOD.

Nadia`s latest post on https://perb.cc

...There are other parts of this case I did not post about because a) it is too sensitive and b) it involves a minor.

As far as conducting personal investigations with personal contacts in the police department, I would think that would be illegal, especially if it involves a minor, and if it IS, I will prosecute to the full extent of the law.

Look, this has all snowballed out of control. Why does there have to be all this drama and accusations? I was trying to do something GOOD. Now I am having my privacy invaded, being attacked, and even vicious threats made. And for what, because someone wants to help me out with $20 for groceries?...

 

[EagerBeaver]

She is backpedaling and now adding the part on the involvement of a minor to try to intimidate people from looking into the police report. She thought this bullshit story would get swallowed more easily than it was, especially with the wheels being greased by Mlle Bijou and Isabelle. Now that the tough questions are being asked, she wants to throw up any possible barrier to prevent any further scrutiny of a police report.

 

[shameemazizad]

anytime someone mentions the word disability you know it's all bs. i think this whole thread should be deleted. this is just preposterous. if u really want get help in a bad situation, she could have gone to the news station, or the press, they could have a done a whole story on her and she could have raised money that way. the way she did it was incredibly terrible. it really hurts the real victims of things like this. this is worse then giving money to poor kids in africa which might not go to them cause it emotionally affects a lot of people. one thing this story did teach me is(whether or not it is true) and it could definately happen and has prob happened to other sps is that client or sp be careful and avoid unsafe situations and unknown places/etc.

 

[shameemazizad]

obviously a load of crap. she should be ashamed of herself.

 

[Maxima]

Here is what has just been posted by a Perbite who has visited NN. She was obviously injured (massively bruised left cheek). I suggest we stop the speculations until official verification.

I just got back from visiting with Nadia for about an hour.
Her left cheek is a massively bruised. I have not seen colours like that since playing sports many years ago.
She moves very slowly and is obviously on medication. I have seen people who have been seriously injured, and she is one of them.
During the course of my visit Indy Isabelle arrived with financial assistance, as well as a fellow perb member who brought two gifts and an envelope.
I have seen Nadia in the past and did not believe that she was making this up. I took over some money to help her out. The fellow perb member had never met Nadia but was moved by her circumstances to visit. In my books that makes him a very good man, and I told him that.
Nadia showed me the card of a VPD member with an incident number written on the card. I did not memorize it but even if I had I would not post it.
I accept that she was assaulted. I appreciate others may want more proof, but I think it would be appropriate to keep any speculation and arm chair detective analysis in check. It adds little.
I anticipate that Isabelle will post about her visit.
Stew

 

[CaptRenault]

Here is whta has been posted by a Perbite who has visited NN. She was obviuosly injured (massively bruised left cheek).

She might indeed be injured, but that doesn't make me anymore inclined to believe her story. She could have been beaten up by her ex-husband, boyfriend, a mugger, a bad client, or her, uh, "protector." Or maybe she took a bad fall.

The fact that someone says he saw a bad bruise on her face doesn't doesn't mean that her elaborate, complicated story is true. In fact, it makes me doubt her story even more. Because if she did acquire a bad bruise and she is embarassed to tell how it really happened, then I can begin to understand her motivation for making up her story in the first place.

 

[Maxima]

CaptR,

The fact that she has massive bruises also makes what she wrote yesterday about trying to see a client (and the omission about mentioning any bruise on her face) very puzzling indeed.

...I tried seeing a client this morning as my car payment comes out Monday and will be repossessed if I miss this payment. I started bleeding very heavily afterwards. I went to the emergency and due to the level of trauma more tissue had been damaged and I had to get stitches. She said if I engage in any sexual activities for the next month or 2 I'm risking serious permanent damage and painful sex for the rest of my life...
Namaste

But IMHO, I now agree with T76, we should at least at the moment give her the benefit of the doubt, should we not? It's a decent thing to do, I think.

 

[Gotsome]

How can a person so injured, moving slow and on medication be able to write several paragraphs of her account in a clear, concise and well thought out manner?

 

[CaptRenault]

...But IMHO, I now agree with T76, we should at least at the moment give her the benefit of the doubt, should we not?

That's what a whole lot of people (including the DA, many professors, many reporters, many black leaders and others) said about the girl who falsely accused the Duke lacrosse players of rape (see this link). Her story was also obviously false from the get-go.

I don't think Nadia's story is as potentially harmful, because in her case she is not accusing real guys of raping her. But as I've said several times above, when a woman makes up a rape story, she is ultimately harming all future real victims of rape by making it harder for them to have others believe their stories. Rape is a terrible crime, but it's not some special category of crime that requires us to believe any story that any woman tells about it. When the story does not add up, as in this case, the alleged victim does not deserve the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Doc Holliday]

There you go.... and how many posts does Stew;700878 have?

410. That was the first thing i checked when i read his post.

 

[Maxima]

Rape or no rape, one thing for sure is that the massive bruises on her face are indication that she is a victim of violence against women. And that alone makes me sick in the stomach never mind by whom, why, and how.

 

[CaptRenault]

Rape or no rape, one thing for sure is that the massive bruises on her face are indication that she is a victim of violence against women. And that alone makes me sick in the stomach never mind by whom, why, and how.

So let's say a client happened to get mugged by a streetwalker and her pimp in a cheap hotel in east Montreal (we all know that this has happened to someone, sometime, right?). The victim decides to go public with his embarassing story, but instead of telling the truth, he makes up an elaborate story about getting mugged in his room at the Hyatt by two unknown, indy escorts and their driver. He figures that this story will serve as a warning to all clients that they need to be careful in any circumstance. Would that story also make you sick to your stomach and never mind by whom, why, and how?

 

[Anna Bijou]

Shameful

OMG!! Would you freakin' drop it already? OK, you do not believe it.. Fine, we get that. But there is still no absolute proof either way, which means it could very well be true. How the F*** would any of you know that any specific actions of hers don't jive with what a "rape victim" would or would not do? Everyone reacts different ways to shock, trauma, stress, fear and danger.



If this turns out to be 100% for sure proven true for you skeptical non-believers/wanna be detectives,
WHAT KIND OF MESSAGE DO YOU THINK YOU'LL BE SENDING OUT TO ANYONE READING THIS THAT MIGHT FIND HERSELF IN A SIMILAR SITUATION?


Do you think girls will want to speak up after the display you've put on? Not likely. You know what it also means? It means there is no one stopping it from happening to others. Do you know how many clients Isabelle, Nadia and I share in Vancouver? Lots. I've never met Nadia and have only met Isabelle once (for duo, not a personal meeting), but I've had many clients mention having visited either one or both of them. To me, this means that it could have happened to me so easily instead of her. It means that whatever made them pick her and not another one of us is unknown, but I know that it could have easily been me or Isabelle or another girl.



If this is true, by her actions in getting them arrested... I know they cannot get to me. If she'd kept quiet, do you think they would have stopped after getting away with it this easily? So you know what, you can come up with theories and points that puzzle you or don't add up and sit around acting like damn commentators for a hockey game, all this because evidently you do not feel concerned personally about it... but guess what? I DO. And as most of the women who have posted have said they prefer to be proven wrong later than to doubt someone and pick apart what she's written on a message board, for god sakes...!?


I suppose that perhaps is one more reason I reacted and was extremely shocked to read her story initially. It wasn't some cracked out girl on a street which I would have been sad about but which I don't really relate to and don't feel like the danger is mine as well, but this is a girl exactly like me, same age, same type of person, with many of the same clients, someone I definitely relate to... this feels very personal to me and quite frankly, for the first time truly scared the crap out of me. Reading the gruesome details made it real for me. If this turned out to be untrue, I would be one of the most angry ones out there, but I refuse to criticize or pick apart her story. If you look hard enough, you can find flaws in any story whether it is true or not. A lot of it means very little and doesn't prove anything.




Either way, whether this is proven to be true or not... this is a sad display of exactly why so many women, prostitutes and civilians alike, do not report rape and prefer to keep quiet. Whether you are skeptical or not is not necessarily the biggest issue, it's how determined and vocal some of you have been to try to discredit her story, like you're about to throw a party at any moment if you are proved right, like you're getting some kind of reward for cracking the story!! Whether this is true or not, there is nothing good about the way this has been treated by some of you (especially ding dong ding a long who keeps throwing a comment in to congratulate himself on being the first to point it out -- even if he hasn't come up with one single argument himself! )


And apparently, even though she's clearly suffered some physical trauma, you are still going at it??? How fucking cold can you guys be? Have you thought of what your actions will mean if this turns out to be true? Or are you so damn convinced you're right that you haven't given any thought to how truly horrible your behavior is to others who may be debating whether or not to report something similar? You don't really care about that, do you Sherlock?



There's nothing good about this being true or not. I would have sincerely thought there would be much more sensitivity about this, especially from men who are part of the same community. But I guess that for some of you, it's easier to waste your time trying to find flaws in her story, from whatever she's written of it on a message board, than to actually think about what this means to the rest of us and how we can make sure this never happens to any one else.


This has been a surprising, disappointing and extremely sad kick in the head.
Please give it a rest. Please. This is not doing any good, or helping anyone.

 

[hormone]

Bijou, We're merely writing thoughts which could be expected to rummage through any reasonable person's mind.

Stayed quiet for this one, I was reading but it seemd far initially... but need to talk now. I agree with Dingaling above, although I think a lot of comments expressed are going too far.

Someone got beaten up. No matter how it happened, it is not right, not good, and maybe worse than many think. The discussion should end there, maybe some warning to youg SPs about don'ts of the profession. But we should not even be going on about if this is a scam or not. This is not dignified. Because of what follows:

Someone beaten up asks for money (really or hypothetically). Or third party asks for money for beaten up person. Money to be sent far from here. I won't give. My not wanting to send money has nothing to do with not being charitable. It has to do with a saying that says that proper charity bests starts in our own home, in our own yard. If I send money to her, I would feel terrible for the dozens of MOntreal (or put your city...) women who get beaten up, raped, etc, every month, every year, whatever... who do not get fundraisers done for them. Who suffer in silence. Who miss payments. Who lose their job... So on.

We have a lot of local problems which need to be fixed ... locally. I vote to work on my local problems. Period.
Now if her friends want to give her money, that is beautiful. If her friends have friends who can be convinced to give also, wonderful. I wish her all the best, but in this day and age, I prefer to help those in my own backyard first.