IMPORTANT! -- SP's & all : PLEASE READ

[Maxima]

For those who want to help, here is an excerpt of her post:

.....
My financial situation is in trouble because I spent all my savings on education, a condo, and helping a friend get a new roof to stop his house from flooding. I then became ill for 5 weeks and was unable to work. I did not foresee that coming. I SHOULD have kept at least 3 months living money seperate from the rest of my savings. That was stupid of me. That is why I'm already a month behind on rent and bills.

But nothing will convince those who doubt me if they are determined to. That's your choice, and I hold nothing against you for it.

I tried seeing a client this morning as my car payment comes out Monday and will be repossessed if I miss this payment. I started bleeding very heavily afterwards. I went to the emergency and due to the level of trauma more tissue had been damaged and I had to get stitches. She said if I engage in any sexual activities for the next month or 2 I'm risking serious permanent damage and painful sex for the rest of my life. I can open a R&T next month or so, but I'm in no shape for it now. I also need to move ASAP as this place is not safe and holds horrible memories for me now.

As far as financial donations, I never dreamed of that level of support. Everything from grabbing $20 groceries for me to getting my hair done for free to try and feel better. You are all beautiful people. For those who wish to help out, there's a number of options.

I have a paypal account - the email address for it is [email protected]

I use Interac email transfers frequently online to pay for advertising, so I am familiar with that. I've never received money through it though, but I assume they just need my email. Isabelle and I will be opening an account together on Monday, so there is accountability to make people comfortable (she can make sure I'm not buying a ticket to Acapulco ... We will post both the account number and the email transfer info then.
......

 

[whocares]

T_76,
I have always had admiration for you but I imagine it is time that you admit that something does not hold up. Just look at her post today: she is starting a so called SECURITY CALL CENTRE!!! WTF?? Not only tryingto rip off clients but also fellow SP's?? This is discusting.
Not to mention that I am also a member on PERB and allow me to tell you that in the backchannels very few mwmbers beleive anything that she has reported since day 1.

What NN or the whoever is posting this noncense is doing is IMO more immoral then rape, they are undermyning all the pain and suffering that real victims go thru. Shame on them.

Tracy: it broke my heart reading your posts that had almost no physicall description since I could feel the pain, I had no feelings at all reading her posts.

Once again it sucks when people try to pull scams like this but did you think that powerfull advertisement medias as perb and merb were going to be invisible to scam artists??

 

[Techman]

You know, considering what t76 and others have mentioned about LE not really putting much effort into prostitution rape cases...they caught these three guys pretty fast didn't they? Literally within days of the crime. I would expect the police force to be doing everything possible to publicize how efficient they were in this case. Especially since it usually takes ages to catch a rapist. In fact I think they would be searching for any others that may have been victimized in a similar way to solidify their case against them. Especially after the bad press they got after the Picton affair you would expect them to really use this case to show how things have changed.

 

[Maxima]

...Now, if this is a scam, it means Isabelle has to be a part of it (i.e. she'll have to say she saw a police report when in fact none exists).

Let me ask all of you, out of curiosity: If this same story happened to an SP here, and I volunteered to open an account, promised to report on whether or not I'd actually seen real proof, would you believe me? Or are we now living in an age where no matter who says what, we always think someone's got something to gain by lying, even at the risk of her own reputation?

This is troubling to me.

t76

You? Yes. We would believe you because we know you would not be fooled. Now what make you think that "Isabelle" has the same quality as you? Is Isabelle trusted by Perbites as much as you are trusted by Merbites? Knowing how thorough you are you may even go to check it all with the police in person and may not rely on a report which may be fake.
If I trusted Chretien does it mean that I should trust Bush as well because they are both head of state?

 

[CaptRenault]

You know, considering what t76 and others have mentioned about LE not really putting much effort into prostitution rape cases...they caught these three guys pretty fast didn't they? Literally within days of the crime. I would expect the police force to be doing everything possible to publicize how efficient they were in this case...

I would expect that too. And yet, they are not. Take a look at this Vancouver Police department press release page. There are many reports of routine crimes here, but there is no mention of the Nadia story.

Vancouver Police Department (click on media releases)

Furthermore, it is not uncommon for the Vancouver police to use a press release to publicize a sexual assault case. Just try a search on the phrase sexaul assault in the search function and you will find a number of examples. Given the sensational circumstances of Nadia's story, I would think that the police would be eager to publicize the arrest of the three suspects.

Vancouver Police Department (click on search media)

 

[Maxima]

... But these things aren't enough for me to reach the verdict: guilty of gross deception. Call me naïve if you wish.

t76

Just out of curiosity: Have you sent her a small of money (let's say $10) to help her out? If not then would the reason for not sending be:
1) It's against my principle
2) I would never send out money to help because I only give to charity
3) Eventhought I don't believe that she is guilty of deception, it is not enough proof for me to send her money
4) other reasons

 

[EagerBeaver]

Let me ask all of you, out of curiosity: If this same story happened to an SP here, and I volunteered to open an account, promised to report on whether or not I'd actually seen real proof, would you believe me? Or are we now living in an age where no matter who says what, we always think someone's got something to gain by lying, even at the risk of her own reputation?t76

t76,

You keep coming back to this having to do with SP believability, woman vs man, etc. I see the issue a bit more simply than man v. woman and SP credibility vs. anyone else's: the issue is, regardless of who purportedly wrote those posts and who purportedly can vouch for them, are they bullshit or not? I don't care who wrote the posts and who vouches for them - if they don't add up, they don't add up.

We had a controversy a while back about an agency SP supposedly having an STD. The accuser's posts were suspicious and the defender's posts were not convincing. He said vs. she said. We had all sort of promises that she would have medical tests, someone "reliable" and "independent" would look at the reports, and then come back and report the results. This is the Internet so all of that was greeted with such great suspicion that nobody ever bothered trying to prove or disprove anything. If someone had done so and it had been accepted, these kinds of accusations would occur all the time. And if what you are suggesting - that someone be appointed "Ombudsman" to review evidence we have not seen and report on it as corroborating evidence or not - that person will soon become the target of payoffs for the next group of scam artists.

Bottom line, greet everything you read on an Internet Board with healthy skepticism.

Don't you remember when Tony posted as the "New Girl" or whatever and people were sending him booking requests, their email addresses etc.? Go back and look at some of his threads. He also posted as "Yossarian" which was supposedly the reincarnation of "Bob Crane" (legendary early poster on this Board). A very credible poster who was a good friend of Crane, who was fooled by Tony, then posted to say it was in fact Crane. This had been "proven" from his PMs with "Yossarian". Tony is still probably laughing at that because that thread went on for weeks, with comments like "oh Bob we missed you" etc., blah blah blah, even after it was obvious it was an impostor.

What had really fooled everyone was that Tony had duped the friend of Crane in a PM exchange. Once the "credible" friend corroborated, the thread went from 1 page to like 10 with "welcome backs", blah, blah, blah. And guess what we found out? It was all TOTAL, PURE, FUCKING BULLSHIT, and Tony laughed his ass off for months.

 

[whocares]

T_76,
My intent isn't to call you naive, on the opposit I truly wish you are true and that I am proven wrong.
My intervention is only to ask people like you who do wish to help others to be carefull. It would be shamefull that people that spend tons of money on SPs not to help one when she is in need, but it would be 1000 times worst to use a rape as a mean to pull a trick. This will put all future real victims under unnecessary scrutiny.
And could anyone tell me how her call centre is going to be anything different from an agency?? So now rape victims open up agencies?? I don't see any victim running an escort agency less then a month after she has been raped twice, do you?

Don't know why put the only thing that comes to my mind is a parallel with Bush's alert level: install fear and people will beleive anything you say. What a poor way to get to ones means.

And concerning what Isabelle is doing: could she also be blinded like other people by the so called horror of the rape, and not leave room for reasonable doubt (which thank god you seem to NOT be doing since you are open to the idea of it being a scam)? Or might she be trying to unfold a scam? Only time will tell.

 

[Maxima]

... The first gentleman who suggested the donation idea has in the 1000+ range. Isabelle, a paying member, has some 500 posts...


t76

These are number of posts not....IQ. High posting numbers are not an indication that you can not be fooled.

 

[French Girl]

Isn't the fact that Isabelle wants to meet Nadia in person, suggest that she is also interested in confirming the story.

Someone posted earlier what I was thinking...due to the bad press about Pickton (taking too long to arrest him etc.) they would likely have promoted themselves by publicizing quick arrests.

Let's not forget that in the summer two working girls (Honey and Nicole) were murdered in Vancouver in a span of a month. These were both highly publicized incidents. Together with the Pickton trial and notorious reputation of the downtown eastside - any story with respect to working girls is a HOT topic in the city of Vancouver. Remember, Vancouver was also the site for the recent documentary about the sex industry played on the cbc quite recently.

 

[Maxima]

... I repeat, if it's a scam, Isabelle is just as guilty.

t76

Could it just be that she is simply a more naive victim of a scam because she lets her mind blinded by emotions?

 

[Gotsome]

Could it just be that she is simply a more naive victim of a scam because she lets her mind blinded by emotions?

That is my thinking as well, that is exactly what seems to be happening

 

[EagerBeaver]

Could it just be that she is simply a more naive victim of a scam because she lets her mind blinded by emotions?

The whole point of any "sympathy scam" is to exploit the emotions of a targeted group by telling a false tale of tragedy designed to stoke the sympathy and passion of that target group. Given the history of violence against SPs in Vancouver which has been noted above by a prior poster, if I was a devious scam artist looking to exploit SPs' sympathies, Vancouver, B.C. is the first place I would hit.

 

[Maxima]

I didn't suggest it was an indication that they could not be fooled. I suggested it was an indication that the members who started the donation idea weren't shills.

t76

They are not shills but they can be fooled. So back to square one: can their actions be indicative that the story was real?

 

[Maxima]

.....
My financial situation is in trouble because I spent all my savings on education, a condo, and helping a friend get a new roof to stop his house from flooding. I then became ill for 5 weeks and was unable to work. I did not foresee that coming. I SHOULD have kept at least 3 months living money seperate from the rest of my savings. That was stupid of me. That is why I'm already a month behind on rent and bills.
...

And her rates are $300/hr.
That's HDH in my books. She's not new in the business. How much would an average HDH earn a year?

 

[Techman]

Originally Posted by Naughty Nadia
.....
My financial situation is in trouble because I spent all my savings on education, a condo, and helping a friend get a new roof to stop his house from flooding. I then became ill for 5 weeks and was unable to work. I did not foresee that coming. I SHOULD have kept at least 3 months living money seperate from the rest of my savings. That was stupid of me. That is why I'm already a month behind on rent and bills.
...

You would think that the friend she bought the new roof for could at least give her a hand right now. She says she is a month behind on her bills...but she is getting evicted and having her car repo'd. After ONE month? Damn...remind me not to move to Vancouver, it's really tough there! I'm sure that if she went to a women's rape shelter that she would be able to get some help. But instead she goes to perb????? The more I read, the more skeptical I become.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Unless Isabelle is in on it... But I have no reason to believe she is in on it based on the argument provided in the previous paragraph.
t76

If she is not in on it and you really care about this lady's welfare, someone should get on the phone with her and make sure she is very careful about the meeting with "Nadia" tomorrow and tell her DO NOT bring money with her. If there is a police report and she gets it tell her to scan it and email it to the Mods on both PERB and MERB. If it does not get scanned and sent to the Board, I will not believe it and I still won't believe it until I see it and someone at Vancouver PD confirms it. Every police report has a case number on it, make sure at a minimum she gets the case number and calls the Vancouver PD to verify it is for real.

My guess is that the police report will be "unavailable", and it's true that it may not be and the investigation may be ongoing. In a case like that in Connecticut it would be about 2 weeks in most cases before the police report can be obtained even if arrests were made right away.

Because it was a rape the report is probably only available to the victim and her attorney in unredacted form. That would be the law here, not sure what it is in Canada. I have been able to obtain reports involving sexual assaults through the Freedom of Information Act but if it is not my client, names and addresses of perps and victims are redacted.

 

[Maxima]

Here, fyi, is what is posted by the Administrator of t*rf (a review forum of Vancouver) today:

I just wanted to let members know where I stand on this issue since t*rf is possibly being used as a means to garner the funds.

1. I would caution sending any money before Nadia's experience can be verfied officially, whether through the media, documentation of hostipal records, or a police report.
2. I would not consider someone vouching for Nadia as verification.
3. There have been questions from members regarding her story, and some inquiries about her current situation that have yet to be addressed by Nadia.

 

[Maxima]

... I view with skepticism, but I keep an open mind.

t76

I agree with you. The majority of us here may lean on one side more than the other on this story but there are enough reasons for us to be skeptical of our own preferences. So we all keep an open mind. None of us, regardless of our preferences, should be seen as insensitive or uncaring or having bad intention or stupid, etc.

 

[EagerBeaver]

I disagree this information needs to be made public on the boards (here or there, or personally fed-exed to you ).

In the USA, police reports are public records available on request. In the case of a police report of sexual assault, request has to be made through the state's freedom of information act, and the names and addresses of victim(s) and the accuseds are redacted, but the rest of the report is available for review.

Assuming the law is the same in Canada, why can't a public record be made available for public scrutiny? I agree names and addresses should be redacted, but the other content either supports her story or proves she is full of shit.

In any event, the notion of accepting "verification" of a seemingly preposterous story, which is more full of holes than Uday Hussein's body was after his shootout with US troops, from a "trusted" person you don't know and have not met, seems to me to be a dangerous condition precedent for doing anything. The moderator on at least one board Nadia posted on has already basically said don't accept verification from a poster, and I agree.

Also, I think Mlle Bijou should be very careful about marrying herself to the validity of this story as she seems to be doing with her recent posts on PERB. I am not sure that this will be the kind of publicity she wants for herself if this story is proven to be a hoax.