Is business slowing down?

[Fradi]

I completely agree with your viewpoint. I believe that the prices set by service providers are not inflated; they are quite standard. If prices were to drop, it would be disrespectful to the entire community of service providers.

Prices set by service providers whether you think they are inflated or not are a reflection of what the market will allow.
These ladies are smart enough to know what is the best price for their business and they will adjust that accordingly.

If their pricing falls it will not benefit anyone who is already struggling to afford them now because it will mean a downturn in the economy which will impact them also and any down turn in the economy usually affects people who are already struggling more than others.

In the end it is pretty useless to grumble about SP pricing as it is a luxury and not a necessity ( well maybe for some. It is) of life and it won’t make the ladies lower their pricing.
Yeah it sucks if you can’t afford the SP of your choice but only you can remedy that situation, there are always options.
Seek someone more affordable, cut down on how many times you see an SP, get a better job, work over time or get a less expensive hobby.

 

[Blacko]

Certainly less choices these days.

 

[s1mpleLov3r]

I think its obviously caused by inflation but also, the ease of girls getting onto OF and making a decent living even if you aren't a top content creator. I believe that isn't our problem because eventually they will realize, that they don't want to cross that line of being known for this. Until this new generation realizes this... our pool of potential talents will significantly be reduced.

As more girls realize they don't want to do OF, more girls will get into the hobby industry, more prospects, more competition, more competition for rates.

It kinda feels like free for all right now. I've booked some agency girls, and they were sub-par to say the least compared the rest of the girls in the industry. Few months later I would see the same pictures of that girl on tryst @ double the price!!!! First, using her old agency pictures on tryst tells me she left the agency on bad terms, because no agency would let you use their pics. Second, my only guess is that her ego got to her head, asking for a raise or something hence why she had the confidence to double her price. Third, she's not professional or responsible enough because using agency pics on Tryst looks ratchet af. Surprise Surprise, after 7 months of inactivity (myself), I see she is no longer on tryst or advertising anywhere independent. I saw her again advertising at a 3rd tier agency. Safe to assume that her ego was her own enemy. You see these superstars who overshadow 90% of the girls in the industry and are charging $280 which makes no sense when you know yourself there are are girls who don't compare at double the price. I pray things will balance out.

Personally I thought this hobby was a privilege or a commodity, it wasn't intended to be "affordable" to everyone. NGL, i hustled and grinded hard to be able to afford this hobby. Its a bit discouraging to find out, you are in the top 10% of salaries and you still have to hobby modestly :/

 

[Lunaseraphim]

It's actually not easy making a decent living off OF. Same thing with camming. It's also not necessarily the same people who make online content and who ''get into the hobby industry'', I know a lot of people who do online work and would never be strippers or escorts or masseuses and they do it for a little bit of extra income only. This thread seems like it's becoming another thread to complain about ''quality of girls'' (as if we are merchandise) and about our rates.

Working for an agency is not the same as working as an indy. Agency girls don't do their own booking, they don't do admin work etc. It's not ''ego'' to ask for higher rates than what you're being paid for at an agency or a spa. Honestly I wish some of you could put yourselves in our shoes sometimes. That's my rant of the day.

 

[Fradi]

It's actually not easy making a decent living off OF. Same thing with camming. It's also not necessarily the same people who make online content and who ''get into the hobby industry'', I know a lot of people who do online work and would never be strippers or escorts or masseuses and they do it for a little bit of extra income only. This thread seems like it's becoming another thread to complain about ''quality of girls'' (as if we are merchandise) and about our rates.

Working for an agency is not the same as working as an indy. Agency girls don't do their own booking, they don't do admin work etc. It's not ''ego'' to ask for higher rates than what you're being paid for at an agency or a spa. Honestly I wish some of you could put yourselves in our shoes sometimes. That's my rant of the day.

As per my previous comments I don’t believe in gripping about the prices, nobody is twisting anybodies arm to pay it.
You can either afford it or not. I will never blame a lady for wanting to be payed as much as she thinks she is worth, all of us want and deserve to be paid for our work at the highest possible rate that we can command why would SP be an exception.
Complaining about the quality of girls, well this is kind of what Merb is about, for clients to complain about the ones that don’t measure up and to praise the ones that do.
We are very lucky to have the ones that are amazing and also good to have Merb to weed out the ones that think we are nothing more than an ATM.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

As per my previous comments I don’t believe in gripping about the prices, nobody is twisting anybodies arm to pay it.
You can either afford it or not. I will never blame a lady for wanting to be payed as much as she thinks she is worth, all of us want and deserve to be paid for our work at the highest possible rate that we can command why would SP be an exception.
Complaining about the quality of girls, well this is kind of what Merb is about, for clients to complain about the ones that don’t measure up and to praise the ones that do.
We are very lucky to have the ones that are amazing and also good to have Merb to weed out the ones that think we are nothing more than an ATM.

No your comment was very respectful, I was talking about the comment above mine. I have a hard time figuring out what it means to ''measure up'' in this industry personally. It's just so subjective. Obviously if someone has poor hygiene and is rude and unpleasant and refuses service or is a scammer there's something to be said about that, but I keep seeing comments where gentlemen say things like ''we don't have the quality of girls we used to'' or ''girls aren't as attractive as they used to'' and stuff like that. It's not the most fun thing to read.

 

[Fradi]

No your comment was very respectful, I was talking about the comment above mine. I have a hard time figuring out what it means to ''measure up'' in this industry personally. It's just so subjective. Obviously if someone has poor hygiene and is rude and unpleasant and refuses service or is a scammer there's something to be said about that, but I keep seeing comments where gentlemen say things like ''we don't have the quality of girls we used to'' or ''girls aren't as attractive as they used to'' and stuff like that. It's not the most fun thing to read.

I can’t speak for other people and I wouldn’t really know if the quality has been diminishing as I have been seeing mostly my ATF and one other young lady.
For me it is not just their looks that attract me but their kindness the way they treat me and the friendship we have.
On rare occasions when I have seen someone new I did my research and I can’t say that I have ever had a bad experience.
I think that there are still many ladies out there who are not only gorgeous but you can have an amazing time with, you just need to be selective and do your homework.

 

[MaxxxEdge]

It's actually not easy making a decent living off OF. Same thing with camming. It's also not necessarily the same people who make online content and who ''get into the hobby industry'', I know a lot of people who do online work and would never be strippers or escorts or masseuses and they do it for a little bit of extra income only. This thread seems like it's becoming another thread to complain about ''quality of girls'' (as if we are merchandise) and about our rates.

Working for an agency is not the same as working as an indy. Agency girls don't do their own booking, they don't do admin work etc. It's not ''ego'' to ask for higher rates than what you're being paid for at an agency or a spa. Honestly I wish some of you could put yourselves in our shoes sometimes. That's my rant of the day.

Bravo! It's nice to see someone in the know set the facts straight. I have a close friend who does OF, SexPanther, ManyVids, cams. and is a former stripper, sp, and pornstar, and the money isn't what the fans and Johns think it is. The majority of fans want things for free or next to nothing. Why pay when the tubesites are free?

This is a common criticism I've hear before, often from people who reminisce about the old times. In this case/industry, I usually reply with: how much would you charge a female version of yourself for sex? Me, I'd charge a lot more than SP's in MTL charge (but then again, as a guy, for someone better than me I wouldn't charge a thing. At least I own my hypocrisy, lol.. I'm fairly well traveled and the caliber of girl/service in MTL vs. the average rates charged is still outstanding compared to most of the world.

 

[jlmiami]

If times were tough, SP prices would fall.
More young SPs would enter the hobby.

Neither is occurring.

There's always a lag between the start of an economic slowdown and prices starting to fall. Just look at Canadian housing prices — nobody can afford to buy but sellers want last year's prices. And I'm sure in a business like escorting it's even more of an ego hit to drop prices.

I don't track the numbers, but it seems like both Vog and Euphoria have longer rosters than a few months ago, and the same appears true for Cupids and Toronto Passions in Toronto. The Toronto agencies really jacked up their rates, especially Cupids, and Terb has been very slow. On the other hand, Merb is busy and Euphoria's entire roster tends to be "fully booked" each day, so business still seems strong in Montreal.

 

[urquell]

It's like anything else. Either do less of it or change the market you're shopping in to reflect your personal economics. The solution is simple, if not necessarily the preferred solution.

 

[Mandouke]

It's like anything else. Either do less of it or change the market you're shopping in to reflect your personal economics. The solution is simple, if not necessarily the preferred solution.

This is very well said, there are options available, do your homework and be happy that there are

The state of the economy will not improve until major political and social change happens, across the board.

 

[User_9]

I don't see prices falling for the same reason housing won't either; it's not a lack of available money but a K-shaped curve where the middle earner is moving up or down. SPs might have less clients but if those clients are willing to pay higher prices it changes nothing.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

Bravo! It's nice to see someone in the know set the facts straight. I have a close friend who does OF, SexPanther, ManyVids, cams. and is a former stripper, sp, and pornstar, and the money isn't what the fans and Johns think it is. The majority of fans want things for free or next to nothing. Why pay when the tubesites are free?

This is a common criticism I've hear before, often from people who reminisce about the old times. In this case/industry, I usually reply with: how much would you charge a female version of yourself for sex? Me, I'd charge a lot more than SP's in MTL charge (but then again, as a guy, for someone better than me I wouldn't charge a thing. At least I own my hypocrisy, lol.. I'm fairly well traveled and the caliber of girl/service in MTL vs. the average rates charged is still outstanding compared to most of the world.

I like your answer. The rates in Montreal are actually quite low compared to certain other cities, and it's annoying to me to hear people complain about rates and quality. It feels to me like a way to pressure insecure SP's into lowering their rates and offering services they don't want to offer. And I'm not sure that it actually works. This isn't a 9 to 5 job where you get paid hourly wages. Some of us only take 2 or 3 clients a week.

 

[Fradi]

I like your answer. The rates in Montreal are actually quite low compared to certain other cities, and it's annoying to me to hear people complain about rates and quality. It feels to me like a way to pressure insecure SP's into lowering their rates and offering services they don't want to offer. And I'm not sure that it actually works. This isn't a 9 to 5 job where you get paid hourly wages. Some of us only take 2 or 3 clients a week.

Pricing is really dependant on what and where you are comparing it to.
If you compare it to the US and other cities in Canada then yes it is very affordable and you are getting great service as well.
If you compare to Asia, Eastern Europe, then it is not that affordable, but that comparison is based on our earnings, if you based it on the earning of locals then it would not be that affordable.

As far as the service I could not be happier the 2 ladies I see are just absolutely amazing and I am very lucky to have them in my life.
It really all comes down to individuals, their ability to find what they are looking for and what they can afford.
For me I have no complaints I think Montreal has a lot to offer, the ladies are gorgeous and while pricing has escalated quite a bit in the last 2 years it is still not out of reach.

 

[urquell]

Pricing is really dependant on what and where you are comparing it to.
If you compare it to the US and other cities in Canada then yes it is very affordable and you are getting great service as well.
If you compare to Asia, Eastern Europe, then it is not that affordable, but that comparison is based on our earnings, if you based it on the earning of locals then it would not be that affordable.

As far as the service I could not be happier the 2 ladies I see are just absolutely amazing and I am very lucky to have them in my life.
It really all comes down to individuals, their ability to find what they are looking for and what they can afford.
For me I have no complaints I think Montreal has a lot to offer, the ladies are gorgeous and while pricing has escalated quite a bit in the last 2 years it is still not out of reach.

It's actually not just a matter of whether mongering remains affordable or not. It's also a matter of perceived value and the opportunity cost. While obviously the prices of just about everything have gone up some have equally obviously gone up faster than others. The consequence is that the relative cost of hobby services vs. the cost of other goods and services has gone up more and more quickly. This makes the opportunity cost of fun time higher. A number of people that I know have said that the value is no longer there for local fun time and that their money is better spent elsewhere for other things (hobbies, tickets, home purchases etc) that have a more lasting impact in their daily lives. Others now limit their mongering exclusively to their trips abroad.

There's no shortage of clients, of course, and there's plenty of people here already complaining about lack of providers or lack of variety but there are definitely some market pressures. Might even be a changing demographic in the clients, but the people here would know that better than I would.

 

[Fradi]

It's actually not just a matter of whether mongering remains affordable or not. It's also a matter of perceived value and the opportunity cost. While obviously the prices of just about everything have gone up some have equally obviously gone up faster than others. The consequence is that the relative cost of hobby services vs. the cost of other goods and services has gone up more and more quickly. This makes the opportunity cost of fun time higher. A number of people that I know have said that the value is no longer there for local fun time and that their money is better spent elsewhere for other things (hobbies, tickets, home purchases etc) that have a more lasting impact in their daily lives. Others now limit their mongering exclusively to their trips abroad.

There's no shortage of clients, of course, and there's plenty of people here already complaining about lack of providers or lack of variety but there are definitely some market pressures. Might even be a changing demographic in the clients, but the people here would know that better than I would.

You have explained it well.
Bottom line nobodies arm is being twisted if they feel they cannot afford it or the service is sub par then they have other options and other hobbies they can pursue.
Gripping about it will do no good or change anything.
Everybody always wants good value at an affordable price and that is the way it should be with everything you purchase including SP services and it is always up to you to find it or adjust and do something else.

 

[themonk83]

I like your answer. The rates in Montreal are actually quite low compared to certain other cities, and it's annoying to me to hear people complain about rates and quality. It feels to me like a way to pressure insecure SP's into lowering their rates and offering services they don't want to offer. And I'm not sure that it actually works. This isn't a 9 to 5 job where you get paid hourly wages. Some of us only take 2 or 3 clients a week.

i read the other day about providers in NYC getting together (collective) and raise their prices no matter how quiet it got and eventually, they succeed in forever raising the prices for every SWs in NYC. Who knows, maybe one day so people will stop complaining

 

[Lunaseraphim]

This isn't an easy job and we have to take a lot of risks which often are not perceived by clients who don't put themselves at our place, ask themselves why we are in this industry, and have really high expectations in terms of service for us. The reason why rates are low in certain countries is because poverty is really high there and sex tourism is a big thing. I'm just asking for a little bit of empathy here. I understand why some providers raise their rates a lot because they want to be more selective, not because they have a big ego. And that's okay.

 

[bodick7]

This isn't an easy job and we have to take a lot of risks which often are not perceived by clients who don't put themselves at our place, ask themselves why we are in this industry, and have really high expectations in terms of service for us. The reason why rates are low in certain countries is because poverty is really high there and sex tourism is a big thing. I'm just asking for a little bit of empathy here. I understand why some providers raise their rates a lot because they want to be more selective, not because they have a big ego. And that's okay.

Got a former favorite who nearly doubled her prepandemic rate. I will probably (I said probably) see her once this year and not once a month for sure anymore.

 

[urquell]

This isn't an easy job and we have to take a lot of risks which often are not perceived by clients who don't put themselves at our place, ask themselves why we are in this industry, and have really high expectations in terms of service for us. The reason why rates are low in certain countries is because poverty is really high there and sex tourism is a big thing. I'm just asking for a little bit of empathy here. I understand why some providers raise their rates a lot because they want to be more selective, not because they have a big ego. And that's okay.

You get to have the empathy for the working conditions and the risks. However, you must also understand that generally speaking the rates for SP services have risen at a rate that far exceeds the increases in the clients means to pay for them. This is not restricted to hobbying. Food is another great example of this. There are no new conditions to your job that have changed in a significant way in the last year or two, however pricing has jumped significantly, so the risks of the profession don't factor significantly into the pricing changes. Market forces do though. This impacts your customers, and in the same way that they bitch about food prices they are going to bitch about SP prices too, and for the same reason. Prices have changed dramatically and in a rapid fashion. I'm purposely ignoring that one is a necessity and the other is a luxury, but it's basically the same thing except limited to a subset of people. It's like the old adage of the frog and the boiling pot. If you throw a frog into a pot of boiling water he will immediately jump out of it. If you put the frog in tepid water and set it to boil the frog will boil to death because the changes are incremental and it doesn't notice the temperature rising bit by bit. Dramatic changes get stronger responses from people. This is also not a knock on either the service providers or the pricing, because fair market value is whatever the market says that it is, and you have the right to charge within that range, and more to the point, to determine your own worth. You have to recognize both viewpoints though, because the set of goals and standards varies diametrically depending on which side of the equation you're looking at. Clients are never going to look at price changes with the same set of eyes that you do.