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Is business slowing down?

Jordd

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Mar 26, 2017
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Bravo! It's nice to see someone in the know set the facts straight. I have a close friend who does OF, SexPanther, ManyVids, cams. and is a former stripper, sp, and pornstar, and the money isn't what the fans and Johns think it is. The majority of fans want things for free or next to nothing. Why pay when the tubesites are free?

This is a common criticism I've hear before, often from people who reminisce about the old times. In this case/industry, I usually reply with: how much would you charge a female version of yourself for sex? Me, I'd charge a lot more than SP's in MTL charge (but then again, as a guy, for someone better than me I wouldn't charge a thing. At least I own my hypocrisy, lol.. I'm fairly well traveled and the caliber of girl/service in MTL vs. the average rates charged is still outstanding compared to most of the world.
I think it comes down to the minimum amount a person is comfortable with in order to provide services. It can’t be the same for everyone. Of course a provider can look at what others are advertising, but that doesn’t mean she will accept the same rates. I guess it’s common sense, but that’s why rates are usually not negotiable. It’s not a common commodity that responses strictly to market pressures.
 

Jordd

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You have explained it well.
Bottom line nobodies arm is being twisted if they feel they cannot afford it or the service is sub par then they have other options and other hobbies they can pursue.
Gripping about it will do no good or change anything.
Everybody always wants good value at an affordable price and that is the way it should be with everything you purchase including SP services and it is always up to you to find it or adjust and do something else.
Great theory, but in practice I’d like to know what other hobbies would be an adequate replacement. Windsurfing?
 

Fradi

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Apr 9, 2019
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Around the corner
It’s not a common commodity that responses strictly to market pressures.
Eveything responds to market pressure. If you have rates that nobody is willing to pay then you are shit out of luck and will either have to adjust or do something else for a living.
That is why you are starting to see Halloween specials, duo specials and as the economy gets worse and the slower winter months approach you will see more of this.
This again is not necessarily a good thing for the average guy because the same market pressures on SP will also way on them, food housing gas etc… has gone up for everyone so even a drop in SP pricing may not help.
Some popular ladies and the ones with a larger regular clientele will probably still do ok and be able to maintain their rates.
I suspect it will hit Indy’s harder as their rates are 50 to 60% higher than agencies and clients will gravitate towards the agencies if they can’t afford the Indies.
This is not really a good thing for anybody but the market will sort it out, supply and demand will always be the determining factor.
 

Jordd

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This is not the only luxury that people can no longer afford but every few weeks someone will make a thread to say “I miss when it was $50 and a pack of gum”

Yeah. We get it, it’s expensive to have fun now, it’s the same for many other things. Movie theatres are now super expensive, don’t even try to buy food there you’ll have to renegotiate your mortgage.

Going out for drinks is also expensive, $24 for one single cocktail? Insane.

The good news is that there are still SPs offering low rates, you can still get occasional discounts from your regular SP if she really likes you and the best is, besides getting lonely, nothing bad is going to happen to you if you need to space out your dates.

Some of you talk like everyone is charging above $500/h which is certainly not the case and I don’t see that happening for the reasons mentioned in this thread.

[Second part]
Seems like 500 is the going hourly rate now a days.
 

Fradi

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Great theory, but in practice I’d like to know what other hobbies would be an adequate replacement. Windsurfing?
Depends on each individual and what their interests are.
If you are obsessed with sex then obviously there is no adequate replacement.
 
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CLOUD 500

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They’re making up for lost revenue during COVID.
Exactly but you know when prices go up they never go back down. Plus since covid ppl have gone crazy going out and to travel. Since two years there are so many tourists and it has not slowed down one bit. I figured after two years the excitement from being locked up would fade, no way it is.
 
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Flyingby

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Ok. For those to mention about pricing and cost of living, I will make 1 comparison over years...

Comparing agency prices, as they are more comparable as indies prices vary much more;
-2001, minimum wage was $7.00/hr, agency prices were $140. (20 hrs of a minimum wage earner)
-2024, minimum wage is $15.75/hr,
Agency prices are approx $260. (17 hrs of a minimum wage earner)
excellent comparison
Thank you @Rebaynia
 
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johnnyboyz

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Mar 26, 2016
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Ok. For those to mention about pricing and cost of living, I will make 1 comparison over years...

Comparing agency prices, as they are more comparable as indies prices vary much more;
-2001, minimum wage was $7.00/hr, agency prices were $140. (20 hrs of a minimum wage earner)
-2024, minimum wage is $15.75/hr,
Agency prices are approx $260. (17 hrs of a minimum wage earner)
**not counting that the agencies take out their cut from that price from the SPs as well.**
Apparently SPs aren't concidered entitled to the same rise in payment for their time as any other industry. If anything over the years they have been pushed into a reduction of their price in comparison to the increasing cost of living over the years.
And there is still quite a few people who keep pushing asking for us to give services at a discount, or trying to haggle prices. It is an annoyingly and insulting request when it is asked. And not all indies charge even up to the agency price, but every provider receives bargain hunters trying to get luxury services they can't afford.

Many people are struggling in this economy, so obviously there are less people who have and are able to afford extras, but it doesn't mean the extra is any less valuable, and should decrease it's worth as well.
Everything we need to keep appearances up, has gone up in prices as well.


I appreciate your analysis. That's amazing that you know the price in 2001!

I do think agency prices haven't risen that much above inflation, and possibly at inflation.
Bank of Canada reports inflation at 18% since 2019 (pre-Covid). I'm thinking agencies have increased from $220 to $260 (correct?). So that's exactly18%. https://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/related/inflation-calculator/
This agrees with Rebaynia's analysis that agency pricing is pretty consistent with overall pricing.

i see indy's increasing their prices more than inflation. My observation is that indy's increased pricing 25-30% since 2019. So about 7-12% above inflation.
I have no idea why indy pricing increased faster than agency pricing and faster than inflation.

Switching now to how indys set pricing. I'm assuming each girl is not trying to optimize total income, but rather trying to see as few as clients as necessary to meet their monthly income goals. This is very different then other industries, where you can maximize profit and income by lowering prices and making it up on volume. Increasing volume is hard work for providers. Not being a provider myself :), i'm just guessing at this part, so I could be wrong.
 
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urquell

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I appreciate your analysis. That's amazing that you know the price in 2001!

I do think agency prices haven't risen that much above inflation, and possibly at inflation.
Bank of Canada reports inflation at 18% since 2019 (pre-Covid). I'm thinking agencies have increased from $220 to $260 (correct?). So that's exactly18%. https://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/related/inflation-calculator/
This agrees with Rebaynia's analysis that agency pricing is pretty consistent with overall pricing.

i see indy's increasing their prices more than inflation. My observation is that indy's increased pricing 25-30% since 2019. So about 7-12% above inflation.
I have no idea why indy pricing increased faster than agency pricing and faster than inflation.

Switching now to how indys set pricing. I'm assuming each girl is not trying to optimize total income, but rather trying to see as few as clients as necessary to meet their monthly income goals. This is very different then other industries, where you can maximize profit and income by lowering prices and making it up on volume. Increasing volume is hard work for providers. Not being a provider myself :), i'm just guessing at this part, so I could be wrong.
It's not a complete picture, any more than Rebaynia's picture is complete (because of the selection bias) because everyone wants to measure the difference in cost relative to inflation, but it's not about inflation, it's about purchasing power. In order to measure the degree to which inflation impacts people's spending habits you also need to know about salary increases and whether those salaries have kept up with inflation or not. So, to say that inflation is 18% and the cost of agencies has gone up 18% doesn't really mean anything unless you know whether salaries have gone up 18% or more, or whether they have only gone up 9%, for example. If the salary increases haven't kept up with inflation then purchasing power is less and consequently people can afford less of the extras, even if inflation and agency cost increases are exactly the same. To further complicate matters salary, inflation and rate adjustments vary by region, so you can't even really use federal stats reliably to give you a regional outlook. Honestly, people's anecdotal experiences on here are probably as good an indication as any if you take the entire community's comments into account as far as their spending goes. General consensus seems to be costs are up and so spending less on fun. Anybody who wants better numbers will need to do a much deeper dive than I'm willing to do. lol
 
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DouMan

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Jul 5, 2008
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Reading some of these analytical comments looks more like a high end university doctorate thesis group for who's best.

Just wondering if SPs, Agencies and Salon owners go through all this elaborate numerical hastle ... I doubt it.
 
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Mandouke

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I was going to say prices will never come down, but yesterday St-Hubert announced that they were lowering their menu prices (only on "extras", not the main courses) because business was slowing down (at least -10%), so we never know.

With my apologies for the always too- easy restaurant/sex worker analogy.

Source: https://www.lapresse.ca/affaires/en...en-restauration/st-hubert-revoit-ses-prix.php
If you eat Mcdonalds they also brought in their $5 trio menu, just horrible food, but for those who cannot afford higher prices for better food, it is what's available.
 

Jordd

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Giselle Montreal

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I was going to say prices will never come down, but yesterday St-Hubert announced that they were lowering their menu prices (only on "extras", not the main courses) because business was slowing down (at least -10%), so we never know.

With my apologies for the always too- easy restaurant/sex worker analogy.

Source: https://www.lapresse.ca/affaires/en...en-restauration/st-hubert-revoit-ses-prix.php
As you say, they haven't lowered the price of the whole menu, but the price of extras and the special lunch menu. I stopped requiring a deposit for incall, and an extra for outcall. It's the same kind of adjustments we do in this industry that have an impact on our income, but clients rarely notice those changes. We are adapting as well, and there are many things to look for other than a change in our hourly rate.

I would like to add that at some point when providers have worked for years in this industry and have built a good name for themselves, a lot of them will simply leave the industry rather than notably lower their rates. Let's say business is dramatically slowing down, I'd rather see two clients a month at my current rates just for some extra cash and put my energy into my civilian career full-time.
 
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