Most Beautiful SPs that do not mind being with older guys

[rumpleforeskiin]

There's this wonderful unstated theme of young guys being all Fratboys, and older 'gentlemen' being nec-plus-ultra coiffed, sophisticated, mustacio'ed Bryan Ferry/James Bond types. Which, of course, is ever so true.

While I don't like to generalize, it's a simple fact that, under the right circumstances, one learns things through living. I'm a much better lover now than I was when I was 40, was better at 40 than I was at 30, was better at 30 than I was at 20. I don't know how old you are, but if you aren't a better lover 10 years from now than you are today, you'll have missed out on one of the main points of living: learning and growing.

Most of the girls I've met appreciate the fact that most older guys are more considerate of their needs, having learned through the years things that please women that they didn't know when they were younger. It's also a simple fact that you also learn through living, simple as it seems, that the more you put out, the more you get back. From what I've heard from the girls I've met, that's a point that's quite lost on many of the younger clients.

I might add that I've met two escorts myself in the last month. One was 19, the other 26. The younger one, while quite willing, just didn't know what she was doing in bed. The older one rocked my very soul. Guys who look for younger and younger escorts are making quite a tactical error.

 

[Regular Guy]

A Fool's Errand?

Ziggy, I am not sure I fully understand you... True the most debilitated can't connect to the net, nor to the same agencies we "connect" to either.

No I don't think Ziggy is really talking about safety here.

Anyway old, young, if the dude shows up with unwashed feet and looking like he's been shot in the face, what difference doest it make? And who gives a toss, really, as long as they're treated right and paid?

(Ziggy, feel free to jump in here at any point!) Perhaps it's more about whether those who take extra pains with the ambience and interpersonal aspects of an encounter are on a fool's errand. This might go to the very heart of it all. Elsewhere he has stated in so many words,(to paraphrase the above), hey let's call a spade a spade here. It's all about sex for money, period. Don't try to make more out of it than it is. The only difference between the streets and Outcall is the context. If that is the case perhaps all that is important to an sp is a young hard body and the cash to go with it. In that event the whole case for any extras the older client may have to offer are not going to make any kind of impression at all. They are merely tolerated. I don't know. Does he have a point here? There are other members who agree with him. One “older” member in times past has made it clear in posts that the term service provider means she is there to service him, period. Only the girls can answer this one and several have made it clear that they don't feel it is appropriate to answer the question. Maybe Ziggy is right. I am not sure. I have always tried to take a positive approach for reasons I have stated above. Isabelle of “parfum d'Isabelle” on her website stresses that the right atmosphere is very important to her. Is it just window dressing? Personally I will continue to respectfully disagree with Ziggy on this one. As far as I am concerned should his suspicions ever be confirmed a lot of us just might as well go out and purchase rubber vaginas. A lot cheaper.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

The only difference between the streets and Outcall is the context. If that is the case perhaps all that is important to an sp is a young hard body and the cash to go with it. In that event the whole case for any extras the older client may have to offer are not going to make any kind of impression at all. They are merely tolerated. I don't know. Does he have a point here? There are other members who agree with him.

The girl is there to service you so, therefore, her pleasure is not important? Right on count one, wrong on count two. Yes, she is there to service you, but the better her working conditions are, the more likely she is to want to go that extra mile.

 

[Regular Guy]

Well RF you are preaching to the choir here. I would like Ziggy to elaborate on his statement though. To some extent there may be some validity to his argument and some caveats for all. I'll keep an open mind but I still believe you and I have the right approach.

 

[z/m(Ret)]

Clarification

You'll have to elaborate on this one for me. Not quite sure of "180 deg. turn." (I think you mean we tend to stick to Incall and Outcall.) If you are suggesting that what many of us are all engaging in here (outcall in the pleasant environment of a quality establishment) is less marginalized by society than at the street level. Okay. Not sure if I got that right.

Quite true! This is part of the dark side of the hobby and you are right. They don't have the resources or the wherewithal to post here and if on drugs and dealing with exposure to the elements, being debilitated is a factor. Olie did a wonderful job of educating us on that aspect with photos and commentary some time back. Thing is though, he did it on this board and many here followed it. So we can't say we weren't educated as to the aspects of the street side of it all. Not sure what case they might plead. That it is not as bad on the streets as we might paint it?

Self-serving ignorance is not a specific trait of hobbying; the phenomenon has its usefulness in various sectors of human activities.

Yet a certain amount of ignorance is vital to hobbying. This hobby is sustainable under the condition that there will always be enough participants who agree to ignore some of the embarrassing information pertaining to the industry. In other words, whoever partakes this hobby, there’s a point he’ll need to turn his back, make that 180-degree turn I was talking about.

Otherwise he would be acting against his own interest. He wouldn’t be hobbying anymore because hobbying is very much about not addressing the issue of prostitution. Once a hobbyist steps out of bound, he can either choose to see or to ignore or, perhaps, turn into a monster of contradiction, akin a certain poster we came to know all too well.

The photographic diary posted in the Street Action section raises dissent and reasonable protest. It also has its usefulness, one that extends well beyond the consumer report-type information and reaches outside the sphere of board members and clients. That being said, such information might only be the tip of the iceberg as even the most informed and daring street action guru won’t push his curiosity pass the critical point where he’d have to reconsider his hobby.

There are indeed sectors of the city, buildings, parks, that remain uninvestigated, ignored or overshadowed the same way there are dealings within the “higher spheres” of the industry that are better left untold, ironically speaking.

But self-serving ignorance is not the exclusive privilege of hobbyists. The animators of the social debate surrounding prostitution, the abolitionists as well as workgroups such as Chez Stella, also have a vested interest in ignorance. Conveniently, Chez Stella choose to brush off the issues of juvenile and street-gang related prostitution, which btw is marginalized by self-appointed experts like Fran Shavers who has yet to provide some local data instead of extrapolations of foreign data to backup her statements.

Meanwhile, abolitionists are too caught up in their paternalistic discourse to bother listening to what prostitutes have to say. To abolitionism icon Richard Poulin, there would be no such thing as independent providers: the prostitute must be victimized and infantilized at any cost.

Board discussions surrounding the hobby, social discourse, public policies, these have limited connectivity with the realities of prostitution.

 

[z/m(Ret)]

Well I don't look at it as looking down the food chain. There are two schools of thought on this board. One is the "let's get down and dirty and get at it - I don't care what she's thinking. I'm not paying for that" bunch. The other is made up of those who combine the sexual experience with the social aspects to create a context for the act. Now I am not knocking either though I happen to believe the second is more rewarding. I am sure the guys from the first school are not abusive - they simply take a pragmatic approach. As for street aficionados, are you referring to the fact that context is rarely an issue for the act itself (the nearest back alley or doorway)? That may be so. But I would find it hard to lump them all into one group.

Actually, RG, it’s the street scene fans themselves who are taking pleasure in branding themselves as bottom feeders. As far as I’m concerned, they are quite a few strata above the scum of the earth as most of them are fairly articulated, intelligent and well-mannered and hardly represent any sort of threat to anyone.

Why I mentioned the street aficionados was to draw attention to the fact that “the dark side” of hobbying, some posters are describing on discussion boards, is actually quite tame, fairly controllable and somewhat acceptable within the mission statement of discussion boards.

Conversely, if a full-scale expose of the industry’s dark side was allowed, widely accepted and understood, my sense is this whole hobby would eventually undergo a fire sale.

If you believe that such expose would be possible without been marginalized, then read my previous post and you'll understand why I don't see this happening.

 

[Regular Guy]

Okay I understand where you are coming from. I actually took the concept of self-serving ignorance as a given. And though I agree with you in principle I think we are venturing outside the scope of this thread. I do appreciate your thoughts and I understand that the anomalies you are suggesting do to some extent overshadow whether it is even relevant to consider the question. But for those of us concerned with the real visceral aspects of all this I still want to pursue it.

That said, One of the Eleganza girls has started a thread in an attempt to give us some sort of insight as to what goes on inside an sp's head. (Be kind now!) So I am going to shift my focus. I have posted my questions on the thread. Let's pick it up over there.

 

[z/m(Ret)]

Ziggy, I am not sure I fully understand you... True the most debilitated can't connect to the net, nor to the same agencies we "connect" to either.
But there are plenty of internet savvy weirdos, maniacs, obsessed or just plain frustrated people, who though they might not participate in our exchanges here, can still pose a risk...

And to try to link this to the initial topic, I am not sure age has anything to do with this "danger" aspect. OK maybe rudeness gets weeded out with age (by learning, hopefully), but not "sickness".

I will clarify.

The problem clients you just described certainly exist, I won't dispute that. Only thing though is their victims are voiceless or muzzled therefore, contrary to RG, I fail to see in what way discussion boards help significantly to promote a safer environment for escorts.

How discussion boards work is there is a certain amount of dissent that is allowed provided that such dissent can be marginalized and quickly forgotten.

My own attempts to expose the machinations of a few hobby celebrities were met, as expected, by assaults from some of the most prominent pimps-little-helpers and my permanent banishment.

The rule of thumb is: don't make waves.

p.s. This segment of the discussion is indeed sidetracking the thread from its original purpose. A spin-off into a new thread would be appropriate.

 

[z/m(Ret)]

(Ziggy, feel free to jump in here at any point!) Perhaps it's more about whether those who take extra pains with the ambience and interpersonal aspects of an encounter are on a fool's errand. This might go to the very heart of it all. Elsewhere he has stated in so many words,(to paraphrase the above), hey let's call a spade a spade here. It's all about sex for money, period. Don't try to make more out of it than it is. The only difference between the streets and Outcall is the context. If that is the case perhaps all that is important to an sp is a young hard body and the cash to go with it. In that event the whole case for any extras the older client may have to offer are not going to make any kind of impression at all. They are merely tolerated. I don't know. Does he have a point here? There are other members who agree with him. One “older” member in times past has made it clear in posts that the term service provider means she is there to service him, period. Only the girls can answer this one and several have made it clear that they don't feel it is appropriate to answer the question. Maybe Ziggy is right. I am not sure. I have always tried to take a positive approach for reasons I have stated above. Isabelle of “parfum d'Isabelle” on her website stresses that the right atmosphere is very important to her. Is it just window dressing? Personally I will continue to respectfully disagree with Ziggy on this one. As far as I am concerned should his suspicions ever be confirmed a lot of us just might as well go out and purchase rubber vaginas. A lot cheaper.

RG,

Not sure how much of the above is addressed to me and, moreover, is supposed to reflect my thoughts but I'll clarify anyway.

I normally forget what I write on this board. One thing I remembered writing - and it's not because it was worth remembering, only because I was severely criticized for writing it - is: "Fuck them, don't love them".

Why I wrote this is because my sense is clients who fall in love are more of a problem to SP's than the clients who would rather just fuck them.

Sorry for the inelegant choice of words here but "fucking them" doesn't imply insensitiveness and rudeness. It neither implies that some kind of romantic atmosphere can't or shouldn't be created as a prelude to sex, etc...

But with experience, you learn to see your dealings with sexworkers in black and white. The converse is also true.

You need a certain amount of skepticism so not to get burned.

 

[z/m(Ret)]

The girl is there to service you so, therefore, her pleasure is not important? Right on count one, wrong on count two. Yes, she is there to service you, but the better her working conditions are, the more likely she is to want to go that extra mile.

Well RF you are preaching to the choir here. I would like Ziggy to elaborate on his statement though. To some extent there may be some validity to his argument and some caveats for all. I'll keep an open mind but I still believe you and I have the right approach.

A case can be made for indies who meet a few clients from time to time: they are likely to be impressed and appreciate those extras the attentive (or older for those who insist on that correlation) client may have to offer.

Such case appears to be less solid for agency providers who meet up to 8 to 10 clients on a daily basis. These girls must reach a point every night where self-preservation instinct kicks in. When that happens, I guess they'd rather make it so that their clients shoot their loads a.s.a.p. over encouraging them into being their 9th latin lover of the evening.

 

[Regular Guy]

Hope this clarifies!

The problem clients you just described certainly exist, I won't dispute that. Only thing though is their victims are voiceless or muzzled therefore, contrary to RG, I fail to see in what way discussion boards help significantly to promote a safer environment for escorts.

Point to you Ziggy! The idea that the board does help promote awareness of issues seemed to me to be a positive initiative. But you are correct in that it is limited in policing the jerks and their antics and that the girls are not participating to the extent they should. I must confess I hadn't considered the idea that they might be "muzzled". I assume you mean that agency owners frown on the girls posting. And now that you mention it I have noticed in the past where members can be quite a bit rough, certainly not gracious when an sp begs to differ on a point. And some reviews go beyond the bounds of good taste. It is interesting though, for what it's worth, that when a client has been an ass with an sp and comes to the board for support, he rarely gets it.

Why I wrote this is because my sense is clients who fall in love are more of a problem to SP's than the clients who would rather just fuck them.

Agreed. This aspect of it actually didn't come up in discussion but you are quite right of course.
That said, I do believe in creating the ambience or context (mood) to play out the fantasy in a mutually rewarding fashion for both and to be able to sustain it throughout. The original concept discussed here refers to this as a life skill i.e. "making love." The idea is that women respond to a range of overtures, some physical, some social, which induce arousal. This arousal makes for a better experience for both. If you agree with this idea then we actually are both on the same page and I misunderstood the jist of your comment: "Anyway, old, young................getting paid."

Taking this idea further one or two members mentioned that with age comes a whole host of life skills which are necessary to pull this off to the satisfaction of a woman. Question is: Is this highly prized by sp's to the extent that they value it over the inexperience and at times self-centeredness (maybe selfishness) of youth? A corollary to this is, Has experience taught sp's generally to value a class act over a pretty face(youth)? Now that's it in a nutshell. (Sounds so clinical when you precis it )

 

[Regular Guy]

Gfe

A case can be made for indies who meet a few clients from time to time: they are likely to be impressed and appreciate those extras the attentive (or older for those who insist on that correlation) client may have to offer.

Such case appears to be less solid for agency providers who meet up to 8 to 10 clients on a daily basis. These girls must reach a point every night where self-preservation instinct kicks in. When that happens, I guess they'd rather make it so that their clients shoot their loads a.s.a.p. over encouraging them into being their 9th latin lover of the evening.

Yes I suppose here is where market forces kick in. There almost seems to be an anomalie to this balancing act between providing a GFE and enduring , as you put it, "their 9th latin lover of the evening." And that perhaps is the heart of the controversy of members insisting on being provided with the GFE option and the agency owners promising it but booking the girls to the point of emotional burnout. We haven't hit the point where push comes to shove on that one. It may never. However, maybe being older is all about booking the earlier appointment and getting the girls when they are fresher. Can't take those late hours you know . And those stuck with the later appointments don't have the energy level to hold out for long anyway. Win - win all around .

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Welcome to MERB!

SCR,
Does the name Tony ring a bell?

And why do you hope you're not doing this when you're 65? Are you hoping your libido will go away? What if you're widowed, divorced, alone for any number of reasons?

I'm not quite 60, fairly recently divorced and am finding that a good romp with a fabulous looking, spirited young woman in her late 20s is keeping me quite young.

I'm glad I wasn't doing it when I was 25.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

I hope I'm not doing this when I'm 65 because I hope I will meet someone I can be totally in love with and not want to be with anyone else, and that the feeling is mutual.

Point taken. For me, this is something to fill the gap. At some point, I'll find a new life mate to grow old and wise with and will stop seeing SPs. What this does do, however, is keep the libido in check, the boy satisfied and keep me from getting into an unsatisfying relationship out of sexual frustration and need.

And it also reminds me, after a very unpleasant marriage, that I'm still quite capable of charming an attractive younger woman.

 

[z/m(Ret)]

However, maybe being older is all about booking the earlier appointment and getting the girls when they are fresher. Can't take those late hours you know . And those stuck with the later appointments don't have the energy level to hold out for long anyway. Win - win all around .

My sense is clients become more aware and patient as they grow older (or "more experienced" if we prefer), and less impulsive. In this view - yes you're correct - the experienced tend to take the roads less travelled, either by booking the earlier appointments or the more expensive/less busy indies.

 

[YouVantOption]

Quick follow-up

I spoke with a young provider who asserted that she does prefer older clients, because if they can get it up at all, they generally only go for one service.