Mouthwash, brushing, periodontal disease

[The Wizard of Oz]

Hello!
Here is 2 questions for you ... one is very scientific and the other very simple.
Hope you'll enjoy the exercice ...

In this article,
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_v129/ai_4211098
it's said that mouthwash can fill up cavity and/or also remineralize lesions...

In this article,
http://www.1stgumdisease.com/
they're talking about how to avoid periodontal disease...

And, finally, in this article,
http://www.animated-teeth.com/bad_breath/t5_halitosis_cures.htm
it's about how should a mouthwash be used to get the most benefit from its antibacterial properties...

Here my first question ...
Would it be right to say that an SP that wants to brush her teeth should do it in this order:
1- Use the mouthwash to kill the bacterial...
2- Brush her teeth to dislodge the bacterial that wasn't by the mouthwash...
3- Use again the mouthwash to kill the bacterial that have been dislodge...


Here my second question:
What an SP is suppose to do with the hygiene of her mouth when she goes travelling with a client? Not brushing her teeth for an entire week!

Have fun!

 

[naughtylady]

On regular dates, I just use mouth wash before.

When travelling I only brush my teeth when I know I wont be kissing, or more, for atleast an hour preferably longer... I have been known to only use mouth wash over a short while...

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[The Wizard of Oz]

Hello Ronnie!

I would have bet my shirt that you would reply to that post ...

Thanks for it. In reality the problem is more complexe than it appears ...
Dot, it's important to understand the mechanisism of science to agree or not with the fisrt procedure. (Of the first question ...)

Seems that the easiest question haven't been answered by anybody so far ... but you!
But regarding all what has been said in the subject till now ... the answer is easy.

I will let people think about it for a while before giving it ...
I guest that it takes time for some to go read the article and then figure out what's all about ...

Still ... keep on going folks ...

 

[Just-ass-weet]

According to my dentist:

1 - Dry brush the teeth and gums using a soft bristle brush (most people use bristles that are too rough)
2 - Rinse with water
3 - Now brush with toothpaste and don't forget to clean your tongue (I love my little tongue brush!) - right after this I run the water extra hot to rinse my brushes until I am finished rinsing my mouth.
4 - Floss
5 - Rinse with Mouth Wash

When travelling with a client, I brush my teeth as I normally would (3 times a day just like they told me when I was a kid)... you cannot have your mouths locked 24hrs a day! If I need to brush my teeth before meeting a client, I will use one of those brush-ups to clean my tongue and rinse with mouthwash.

xoxox
Anik

 

[Mike Mercury]

Brushing one`s teeth can cause small cuts & scrapes on the gums & insides of the mouth.
These cuts and scrapes are openings though which bacteria & viruses can travel inwards or outwards.

The act of cleaning one`s mouth actually increases risks.

Then again cleaning extra carefully can reduce the risk of gum disease (which is more or less contagious).
Of course cleaning & brushing prevents tooth decay and some types of halitosis.

 

[General Gonad]

Of course cleaning & brushing prevents tooth decay and some types of halitosis.

Halitosis! Another huge pet peeve for me! You're better off brushing, flossing and rinsing at least twice a day. Then you can show off your pearly whites!

 

[MakeIt]

Brushing one`s teeth can cause small cuts & scrapes on the gums & insides of the mouth.


The act of cleaning one`s mouth actually increases risks.

Then again cleaning extra carefully can reduce the risk of gum disease (which is more or less contagious).

Hydragoat

I would agree its better safe than sorry, but many hobbyists prefer SP who provide DFK and TCIM. I think that the SP who provides this service should practice good oral hygeine so I don`t get any ``leftovers``. As I mentioned in another thread, I have not been able to find any credible information supporting that normal brushing of healthy teeth and gums results in scrapes or cuts, or ``microcuts``, of the gums. I would really welcome a link to such a site if you can find one but so far this appears to be an urban legend.

What I have found, according to both the American Academy of Periodontology (AAP) and the American Dental Association(ADA), is that bleeding gums is not normal as a result of brushing or any normal recommended oral hygiene practice. Bleeding can occur due to overly aggresive brushing but is much more likely to due to early periodontal disease. If you experience this, you should see a dentist.

As for increased risk from brushing, there is little to support this statement. While it generally recommended to use a condom for oral sex, studies from reputable organizations have not shown a clear link between oral sex and HIV transmission. A good site regarding this is the US Center for Disease Control and Prevention (http://www.bt.cdc.gov/). While they have investigated many cases, only one suspected case may have been due to oral sex and even here they could not confirm. From what I have read, you are much more likely to get gonnoreah from oral sex, and this would occur even without bleeding gums. So if you`re really concerned about oral sex safetly, forget DFK and .

As for me, I like both of these activities but I also prefer that the SP practice good oral hygiene - this is often one sign that they work on keeping themselves in good health. I think brushing is a good and safe practice as long as it is done correctly (see ADA web site) and gum disease is not present. Follow up brushing with antibacterial mouthwash is also a very good practice. I would not suggest however flossing to close to an encounter as many people are not careful here and can cause bleeding of even healthy gums. Flossing once a day is usually recommended to help reduce gum disease.

Finally regarding bad breath, this may also be a sign of gum disease. If this isn`t the source of the bad breath, one of the best practices to avoid bad breath it is to brush the tongue and eliminate build up of sulfur compounds that tend to reside on the tongue and cause it.

 

[naughtylady]

Here is a link about brushing teeth and AIDS:

http://www.sexualhealth.com/question.php?Action=read&question_id=2959&channel=15&topic=106


Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[The Wizard of Oz]

Yes for sure!

Your rigth Ronnie! I have found that and something else about it. Yes, if you migth cause bleeding when you brush before having oral sex, well it is dangerous. But my question goes more far than that ... It about the ''microcuts'' and much more about the after actions. Witch nothing as been found so far about it.

Other examples of the before action:http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/insite?page=ask-01-02-27 and http://www.uhs.uga.edu/sexualhealth/oral_sex.html

Otherwise, I think it has been clear for everyone so far that open cuts and others are absolutly exposed to contaminations.

 

[The Wizard of Oz]

Answers ... without answers!

As I have experiment, not always easy to have the exact answer to a specific question ... !

I have write to many experts to see what they had to say about my first question and had receive many responses to it ... or should I say that no one seems to know the exact answer! But heres one of them that was more complete than others and was covering pretty much details about:
- before oral sex
- after oral sex
- flossing, brushing
- using mouthwash
- what have and haven't been proved ...

Dear Visitor to the Canadian Health Network:

Thank you for your comment. Following your last email we pursued our research and selected two new resources. You probably know them, The Body and The Well Project. Both United State based, and are well respected and reliable HIV/AIDS resources. Based on those two resources here’s further information to answer you three points of concern:

1- use mouthwash to kill the bacterial in the mouth
2- brushing to dislodge the bacterial that haven't been by the mouthwash
3- use again the mouthwash to kill the dislodge bacterial.

As you know, the risk of HIV transmission through oral sex is genuinely difficult to assess. “A number of studies have tried to determine the exact level of risk of oral sex, but it can be difficult to get accurate information from study participants. Since most people don’t just have oral sex, it is also difficult to single out oral sex as the definite way HIV was transmitted.” (The Body, see link below) In addition, doing a study only on oral sex and HIV transmission would be unethical. One person would have to perform oral sex on an HIV + person placing herself at risk of getting HIV.
Literatures on the topic of HIV transmission and oral sex mainly talks about prevention before performing fellatio. For example “Don’t floss, brush your teeth, or engage in any behavior that would create abrasions or cuts in your mouth prior to performing oral sex. Use mouthwash or a breath mint instead.” (The Body, see link below) However, it is important to know that the frequent use of mouthwash containing alcohol can cause irritation in the mouth creating a perfect environment for transmission of HIV. It is suggested to: “Know your oral health. Know what's going on inside your own mouth. If you just bit you lip or your cheek, avoid oral sex until it's healed. Did you just burn your mouth with hot food? Did you eat a bag of corn chips and tear your gums? Avoid the semen or vaginal secretions of an infected partner until you've healed. Also, don't perform oral sex on a man or woman with HIV immediately after brushing or flossing your teeth. If your gums are bleeding or tender, you increase the chance of transmission that way. If this is a recurring problem, talk to a dentist and get checked for gingivitis, a common gum disease. Good oral health and hygiene reduce the risk of HIV and sexually transmitted disease transmission. Cuts, abrasions and bleeding are red flags.” (The Body, see link below)

In conclusion, there are no studies specifically addressing prevention of HIV transmission and the use of mouthwash after performing sex.
For further reading please visit the following links:

http://www.thewellproject.org/HIV_The_Basics/Oral_Sex_Whats_the_Real_Risk.jsp

http://www.thebody.com/Forums/AIDS/SafeSex/Archive/PreventionSexual/Q152510.html

I hope this information answer your question.

Sincerely,
Christine Villeneuve
Health Promotion/Network Officer/Agente de liaison et de promotion de la santé
HIV/AIDS Affiliate to the Canadian Health Network
Partenaire affilié VIH/sida du Réseau canadien de la santé
613-725-3769 x 167 Fax/Téléc: 613-725-1205
www.canadian-health-network.ca www.reseau-canadien-sante.ca

At 02:03 PM 2/6/2006, you wrote:

Hello!
Thank you for replying so fast to us. But we have to admit to you that we already know about the information you're talking about. As scientific women we have push the question a little bit more far. We want to know if the 1-2-3 procedure is good or not?

Warm regardings from us.

I'll come back to you later after a good reading...

 

[naughtylady]

Thank you for doing this research for all of us. It is important information that we all should know.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[G1GBallday]

Hello Dorothy,

Thank you for this informative post. Based on what’s written in these articles the consensus is that there is a theoretical risk of HIV or other STD transmission from oral sex. I don’t believe anyone here will be surprised to read this but I also believe there are obviously other considerations that come into account when evaluating an individual’s actual risk ie. general state of oral health, frequency of oral sexual relations, etc. therefore if I understand your original question correctly what you’re asking is once a person has made an informed and conscious decision to allow ejaculation in their mouth is it the best practice to use a mouthwash, then brush, and mouthwash again strategy. While I’m not a dentist (had I know so many women were into oral hygiene I might have studied dentistry ) common sense tells me yes.

Personally what I would first do is make sure I was completely aware of my oral health by doing normal day to day self inspections and then via regular professional checkups. Next I believe using mouthwash before brushing is a good idea since it will kill bacteria and to some extent cauterize any small cuts or lesions thanks to the alcohol. Then when brushing, I would definitely use the softest brush I could find and would always use the gentle brushing technique that was once taught in school ie. leaning the bristles parallel to the teeth and use a downward twisting technique that follows the tooth line.

At this point using mouthwash again might be considered overkill but it will kill more of any remaining bacteria. I would however pay special attention to your reply from Christine Villeneuve stating that there is a risk of irritation from frequent use of mouthwash. Knowing this I would carefully choose what type of mouthwash I use and probably avoid the nuclear stuff like original Listerine and go with a milder less acidic brand with a low pH rating.

Finally, I once discussed this topic with a very intelligent former SP I know and she brought up another risk consideration that no one here has mentioned so far. She said to me don’t forget the context from where the sexual partners are coming from. Her reasoning was that if you take two people who have equal amounts of oral sex that includes ejaculation in the mouth, the SP is actually less likely to contract an STD simply because they are dealing with a segment of the population that tend to be highly conscious of STD because they can’t afford to bring something unpleasant back home unlike the casual sexual relations that occur at the regular hetro or homosexual community in bars, swing clubs, saunas, etc.

I thought that made a lot of sense.


PS. Say hi to Toto from me.

 

[The Wizard of Oz]

Hi!

Thanks Ronnie and always welcome. I have to say it was a long road to go and try to read a max about the subject ... and there's still more to read! Unfortunately, the situation is all about microscopic elements that's hard to control and that's true in any domain of life!

G1G, I think that you did reach a good point when you say that people in this environment are award about the situation and about taking care of the health. Nobody wants to end up with some of those ...

I suggest, after being very serious with the first question , that it would also be fun to have hilarious answers to the second one ...

P.S. G1G ... I would like to give your ''salut!'' to Toto but I didn't see him for a while ...
I think that he's with some Socrate's Dog friends!!!

 

[MakeIt]

Dorothy

Thanks for finding those excellent pieces of information for us. Its what I had in mind for credible sources on info. I think I've gotten 2 things from this thread:

The risk of HIV transmission through oral sex is low but possible so better safe than sorry.

Being safe requires, at minimum, good oral hygiene practices such that prior to or during oral sex there is no bleeding of gums due to gum disease, rough cleaning of teeth, open sores, or any other open wounds, cuts or abrasions that could occur for any reason.

I would also add (or repeat) that if I am to see an SP who has performed oral sex on another person recently, every effort to properly clean the mouth without causing any bleeding should be made.

MakeIt

"We're not in Kansas anymore"