MERB
Jerkmate

speculation on the us canada border

sene5hos

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2019
3,730
4,999
113
More details:


The United States has extended border restrictions on nonessential travel yet again.

U.S. borders with Mexico and Canada will remain closed through Aug. 21, according to documents to be published in the Federal Register. The previous U.S. border restrictions were set to end on Thursday.

The extensions come on the heels of Canada's Monday announcement that it would reopen its borders to fully vaccinated U.S. citizens and permanent residents Aug. 9, with plans to allow fully vaccinated travelers from any country on Sept. 7.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gaby

thegreatwalooo

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2005
2,631
785
113
NYC
More details:


The United States has extended border restrictions on nonessential travel yet again.

U.S. borders with Mexico and Canada will remain closed through Aug. 21, according to documents to be published in the Federal Register. The previous U.S. border restrictions were set to end on Thursday.

The extensions come on the heels of Canada's Monday announcement that it would reopen its borders to fully vaccinated U.S. citizens and permanent residents Aug. 9, with plans to allow fully vaccinated travelers from any country on Sept. 7.
What's funny is when the US and Canada both decided to continue to extend the border closure you insisted that it was Canada who dictated the terms of the closure and you were quite proud of that. Now you change your position and credit the American's for restricting nonessential travel. I wish you would make up your mind.

See you August 9th!
 

masterP

Member
Sep 24, 2003
98
3
8
50
VT
Visit site
If I have to worry about the timing of tests, the possibility of random testing, the reimposition of mask mandates and the possibility of being denied reentry into my own country, then I have no desire to go to Montreal right now. These kind of concerns take all the fun out of a trip to Montreal,

In addition, the downtown strip clubs are closed and there are no events going on. I would rather save my money and go back when the life of the city returns to something like it was in fall 2019, the last time I was there.

I have lived just fine without trips to Montreal over the last 20 months. Wake me up when it‘s finally. over.
I agree. I was excited when I heard about the Aug 9 border opening, but after looking into the details, not so much. The following quotes came from Canadian government websites:

"All travelers must still present a suitable quarantine plan, and be prepared to quarantine, should they not meet all of the conditions required to be exempt from quarantine. They will also be required to follow public health measures in place, such as monitoring for signs and symptoms of COVID-19, wearing a mask when in public and keeping a copy of their vaccination documentation and test results - as well as a list of close contacts and locations visited - for 14 days after entry to Canada"

"Using a new border testing surveillance program at airports and land border crossings, fully vaccinated travelers will not need a post-arrival test unless they have been randomly selected to complete a Day 1 COVID-19 molecular test. This shift responds to the pandemic's evolution and will monitor prevalence in travelers."

So, if I sneeze at the border crossing or fail a random post-arrival test, am I going to get stuck in Montreal under quarantine for two weeks? I'd probably get fired from my job if I don't show up for that long. I'll be up to visit as soon as the only requirement is showing proof that I'm fully vaccinated.
 

Patron

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2004
4,902
506
113
Visit site
I agree. I was excited when I heard about the Aug 9 border opening, but after looking into the details, not so much. The following quotes came from Canadian government websites:

"All travelers must still present a suitable quarantine plan, and be prepared to quarantine, should they not meet all of the conditions required to be exempt from quarantine. They will also be required to follow public health measures in place, such as monitoring for signs and symptoms of COVID-19, wearing a mask when in public and keeping a copy of their vaccination documentation and test results - as well as a list of close contacts and locations visited - for 14 days after entry to Canada"

"Using a new border testing surveillance program at airports and land border crossings, fully vaccinated travelers will not need a post-arrival test unless they have been randomly selected to complete a Day 1 COVID-19 molecular test. This shift responds to the pandemic's evolution and will monitor prevalence in travelers."

So, if I sneeze at the border crossing or fail a random post-arrival test, am I going to get stuck in Montreal under quarantine for two weeks? I'd probably get fired from my job if I don't show up for that long. I'll be up to visit as soon as the only requirement is showing proof that I'm fully vaccinated.
Yes, it is something that each person has to evaluate himself.

You would think that if you test negative the day before the trip, the chances of being randomly selected for retesting and testing positive that next day is very, very, very low.

But I go back to my question of who the hell are we protecting here?

If a vaccinated person tests positive, he likely has few, if any symptoms, and is not that contagious.

But governments are willing to put that person essentially in solitary confinement prison.

The people that are being protected by putting that person in “prison” are the unvaccinated.

I support the rights of the unvaccinated to not get the vaccine, but beyond that Fuck’em. Don’t imprison the vaccinated just because they have chosen to travel and have the equivalent of the common cold. If we do that, this will never end.

My freedom doesn’t end where someone else’s rights begin. There has to be overlap where the government leaves both of us alone.
 
Last edited:

Fradi

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2019
1,986
1,657
113
Around the corner
Typical US bullshit, way too many stupid politicians.
We allow fully vaccinated US citizens in ( on the 9th of August) even though we have now surpassed the number of fully vaccinated in the US, the gap will just keep growing and far exceed the number that have at least one dose, our numbers are much better with the number of new cases in relation to population yet they won’t allow fully vaccinated Canadians in.
Right now it is a shit show all over the world and I am not going anywhere in 2021 and will wait until the dust settles and all these countries can agree exactly what vaccines will be accepted what kind of tests will be required and I am not going anywhere that they will impose quarantine on people who are fully vaccinated or additional covid tests once they have arrived.
If I could wait 1 1/2 years I can wait another 6 months to a year.
Luckily there is plenty to see in Canada and the women in Montreal are fabulous so I am not in a bad place.
 

Patron

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2004
4,902
506
113
Visit site
The more I think about it, the more I agree with some of you.

A person has to evaluate, if flying, how devastating it would be to test positive for COVID while trapped between two countries. And the random test by Canada can eliminate the certainty of being able to return to the U.S. even if the return flight is within three calendar days of the test in the U.S.

And Canada is better about this than the U.S. is. At least the border is open, with risks.

Remember when Isis was a thing, and people suggested that those U.S. citizens who went to train with Isis not be allowed back into the U.S. and the government said that all citizens must be allowed back in? What door did we open here, folks? Motherfucking terrorists seem to have more rights than a person who got the damn vaccine and has no symptoms and happens to test positive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fradi

thegreatwalooo

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2005
2,631
785
113
NYC
The current administration clearly has no idea how to effectively work with either our southern or northern borders. To the south we are letting everyone in through Mexico and to the north we are keeping Canadian's out. I don't get it at all.

I remember the beginning of the pandemic like it was yesterday. I was planning a trip to Montreal late in February. The travel ban from China happened January 31st 2020 and that's where things started to get bad. All of February there was more and more reports about COVID. Towards the end of February I thought to myself that I didn't want to be stuck outside of the country in case the border got closed so I cancelled my trip. Prior to February I hadn't been to Montreal since the previous summer so in hindsight I wish that I did go just to get it out of my system. Anyway, a lot of what many are saying here now are the same issues I was thinking about in 2020.

What if you get sick while your in Canada? I would be very concerned about the healthcare. Not that either country has better healthcare than the other, but the fact that most healthcare coverages you get in the US do not cover you when you travel to another country. So even though I'm vaccinated and have a minimal chance of getting really sick from COVID, there are no guarantees. Being in Canada, hospitalized from COVID, not being permitted to go back to the states for healthcare would financially destroy many.

For now it's just not worth the hassle IMHO.
 

masterP

Member
Sep 24, 2003
98
3
8
50
VT
Visit site
Typical US bullshit, way too many stupid politicians.
We allow fully vaccinated US citizens in ( on the 9th of August) even though we have now surpassed the number of fully vaccinated in the US, the gap will just keep growing and far exceed the number that have at least one dose, our numbers are much better with the number of new cases in relation to population yet they won’t allow fully vaccinated Canadians in.
Right now it is a shit show all over the world and I am not going anywhere in 2021 and will wait until the dust settles and all these countries can agree exactly what vaccines will be accepted what kind of tests will be required and I am not going anywhere that they will impose quarantine on people who are fully vaccinated or additional covid tests once they have arrived.
If I could wait 1 1/2 years I can wait another 6 months to a year.
Luckily there is plenty to see in Canada and the women in Montreal are fabulous so I am not in a bad place.
While I agree with you that there are way too many stupid politicians, there may be more too it. I think that it's at least possible that the US government's decision to extent the border closure for Canadians could be part of a diplomatic effort to get the Canadian government to relax the excessive requirements for fully vaccinated US citizens who want to enter Canada.
 

Fradi

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2019
1,986
1,657
113
Around the corner
While I agree with you that there are way too many stupid politicians, there may be more too it. I think that it's at least possible that the US government's decision to extent the border closure for Canadians could be part of a diplomatic effort to get the Canadian government to relax the excessive requirements for fully vaccinated US citizens who want to enter Canada.
That would be a strange and stupid way to go about it.
The least they could do is match what Canada has allowed and negotiate from there instead of acting like an asshole and saying until I get exactly what I want fuck you. Like I said stupid politicians , unfortunately we have an abundance of them also.
 

Like_It_Hot

Well-Known Member
Jun 27, 2010
1,044
415
83
...could be part of a diplomatic effort to get the Canadian government to relax the excessive requirements for fully vaccinated US citizens who want to enter Canada.
The decision of Canadian government was all about politic. As we will, with a high probability, get in federal election this fall, Trudeau decided to please all Canadians relying on tourism and in the same time not to deceive all those very concerned about importing delta variants from some reckless Americans. There is nothing excessive in the requirements, just common sense. On the other side, I was surprised and pleased by the American government decision to keep their boarder closed. Surprised because I know there are great pressure from New-England governors to greet Canadian tourism (for the money they spend there...) and pleased because the USA not having success, for different reasons, controlling the increase in delta variant. Yes in a way there are less probability for Canadians to bring back those variants. It is very upsetting to look at numbers of new COVID cases rising in the US and the vaccination not really improving there. The 4th wave is there and it will be terrible unless there is a drastic change in the way almost 50% of the US population is thinking about vaccination. I understand, people wanting to visit family or joining a scientific congress but I can't see what would attract Canadians to USA for pure tourism. I would live for quite a while with the actual situation, Canadian boarder open to fully vaccinated people with strict (not excessive) requirements and the US boarder closed for as long the situation is not under control there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CLOUD 500

Fradi

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2019
1,986
1,657
113
Around the corner
^^^^^
This is exactly what totally baffles me and makes zero sense.
If it is ok for Americans to come across under certain conditions, then what kind of logic are you applying that Canadians can’t cross and return to the same place under the same conditions.
I guess the virus only spreads from Canadians crossing the border and then coming back, I didn’t realize that the virus knows the difference between a Canadian and an American perhaps there is a new variant that I am not aware of.
 
Last edited:

envelopes

Active Member
Oct 7, 2019
121
32
28
^^^^^
This is exactly what totally baffles me and makes zero sense.
If it is ok for Americans to come across under certain conditions, then what kind of logic are you applying that Canadians can’t cross and return to the same place under the same conditions.
I guess the virus only spreads from Canadians crossing the border and then coming back, I didn’t realize that the virus knows the difference between a Canadian and an American perhaps there is a new variant that I am not aware of.
I don't understand what you're talking about. It does not reflect reality.

Canadians have been freely flying into the US the entire time, all of 2020, the entire pandemic. I know lots of people who have flown from Montreal and partied in Miami, camped in Vermont, Maine, New York, and then go back to Montreal and they don't even quarantine. They keep saying Americans were risk vectors, but unvaccinated Canadians were going in and out of Canada no problem.... reality is the complete opposite of what you are saying, actually.

Americans were not allowed into Canada at all, neither flight nor land.
 

CLOUD 500

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2005
4,941
651
113
^^^^^
This is exactly what totally baffles me and makes zero sense.
If it is ok for Americans to come across under certain conditions, then what kind of logic are you applying that Canadians can’t cross and return to the same place under the same conditions.
I guess the virus only spreads from Canadians crossing the border and then coming back, I didn’t realize that the virus knows the difference between a Canadian and an American perhaps there is a new variant that I am not aware of.
It all comes down to politics. Did you read the strict conditions and protocols required for Americans to even come to Canada? Other Merbites mentioned them in this thread. I would never bother to come with those types of restrictions. Canada is too influenced by the left and socialism so they are too over protective. However since this entirety of this pandemic Canadians have been traveling to the US, I know a bunch of strippers who spent some months in Miami. Having said that they found a way to bypass the restrictions I do not know the whole details. They can fly but on the way back they took a chartered car ride back to Canada and were not required to quarantine at a hotel. Some just flew back but never bothered to quarantine at a hotel the fine they got is actually cheaper then the $2000 hotel fee. All this were smokes and mirrors just to show that politicians were doing something. However no American were allowed into Canada by land or flight no exceptions allowed.
 

gaby

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2011
5,754
1,236
113
..et il semblerait que les Américains auraient décidé de ne pas reconnaître ceux qui ont MIXÉ leurs vaccins.....soit par exemple ont recu un Moderna et un Pfizer....wow....apparamment plus de 2,5 millions de Canadiens se retrouvent dans cette situation....
ASAP de sérieuses discussions pour en arriver à un accord....ce qui va très certainement se produire.
 

Patron

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2004
4,902
506
113
Visit site
Maybe others disagree, but I think the biggest beef many American have here is what the U.S. requires from its own damn citizens to fly back into the U.S.

Certainly Canada isn’t making things easier by having random testing, and the way the athletes at the Olympics can test positive the day after they test negative is a major concern.

But it is not that unreasonable for Canada to require a negative test for entry. What is unreasonable for the vaccinated is the possibility of being Imprisoned with no symptoms as a result of a positive test, while paying for the imprisonment.

Here is what I view as being a reasonable solution. If a U.S. person tests positive in the U.S., he/she can’t enter Canada until a negative test occurs. If he/she tests positive on a random test in Canada, he/she has to leave Canada on the next available flight (if he/she flew in). I realize many would object to that person being on a flight, but the world can’t be perfect. A person comes into contact with infected people. That is why we have vaccines. This whole leper colony concept established before vaccines just can’t continue for the vaccinated. Maybe the airline is confidentially informed of the positive test to try to be sure he/she isn’t seated next to many under 12s. But most importantly, the U.S. requirement that it’s own vaccinated citizens have a negative test within 3 days of flying into the U.S. needs to be eliminated immediately.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fradi

Fradi

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2019
1,986
1,657
113
Around the corner
I don't understand what you're talking about. It does not reflect reality.
I was talking about not having any issues with fully vaccinated Americans coming to Canada under strict conditions but wanting to have the border closed to Canadians. I was replying to those comments. That was what didn’t makes sense to me and still doesn’t.
I am well aware of the fact that Canadians have been free to travel by air to the US. I knew people that went to vacation in Florida and to get their vaccination ahead of all of us.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: purplem and Patron

Patron

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2004
4,902
506
113
Visit site
I was talking about not having any issues with fully vaccinated Americans coming to Canada under strict conditions but wanting to have the border closed to Canadians. I was replying to those comments. That was what didn’t makes sense to me and still doesn’t.
I am well aware of the fact that Canadians have been free to travel by air to the US. I knew people that went to vacation in Florida and to get their vaccination ahead of all of us.
Here is how I make sense of what doesn’t make sense to you. From Day One, U.S. politicians have blamed this on The Outsiders. It was the China Virus, and then it spread outside China because the Europeans didn’t close their borders to the Chinese, and American kept traveling to Europe. Now the U.S. is arrogant enough to keep its borders closed to The Outsiders, even when they open their borders to Americans (and even though the U.S. has worse statistics than they do). And it punishes potential U.S. international travelers with a policy that says, if you leave and catch COVID, you can just damn well stay on The Outside. And unless the international trip is really short, the U.S. will know if you caught it since you have to pay for the test to get back in. And you have to tell the airline your health status, medical privacy be damned. You left The Homeland, so you forfeited all those rights.

Make sense now? I think it was STN that said his kids and their friends had expressed a preference for Spanish beaches over Florida. I suspect if the politicians in the U.S. continue their arrogance, the U.S. will lose many young people as potential tourists.

Of course the U.S. borders should be opened on a reciprocal basis to Canadians at the same time the Canadian borders opened to the U.S. But it isn’t logic being applied here, it is political pandering to those who haven’t ever left their county, let alone their country.
 
  • Like
Reactions: purplem

transatlantic

Active Member
Oct 29, 2013
452
36
28
Sex Prison USA
Guys, there is an alternative. Fly to Burlington, Vermont and rent a car. Crossing and returning by land is easier. I did it many times even in pre Covid times.
Plattsburgh (PBG) is an as well alternative but not as much air service as BTV.


The current administration clearly has no idea how to effectively work with either our southern or northern borders. To the south we are letting everyone in through Mexico and to the north we are keeping Canadian's out. I don't get it at all.

I remember the beginning of the pandemic like it was yesterday. I was planning a trip to Montreal late in February. The travel ban from China happened January 31st 2020 and that's where things started to get bad. All of February there was more and more reports about COVID. Towards the end of February I thought to myself that I didn't want to be stuck outside of the country in case the border got closed so I cancelled my trip. Prior to February I hadn't been to Montreal since the previous summer so in hindsight I wish that I did go just to get it out of my system. Anyway, a lot of what many are saying here now are the same issues I was thinking about in 2020.

What if you get sick while your in Canada? I would be very concerned about the healthcare. Not that either country has better healthcare than the other, but the fact that most healthcare coverages you get in the US do not cover you when you travel to another country. So even though I'm vaccinated and have a minimal chance of getting really sick from COVID, there are no guarantees. Being in Canada, hospitalized from COVID, not being permitted to go back to the states for healthcare would financially destroy many.

For now it's just not worth the hassle IMHO.
Based on your prior posts, I take it you're in the Northeast. I don't see this being a if driving. CDC test requirement does not apply to land crossing. Worst case is you have to do a U turn and drive back into the US if random testing upon arrival is positive but chances of that happening are really really low considering you would have to had a negative pre-arrival test within 72 hours prior.


While I agree with you that there are way too many stupid politicians, there may be more too it. I think that it's at least possible that the US government's decision to extent the border closure for Canadians could be part of a diplomatic effort to get the Canadian government to relax the excessive requirements for fully vaccinated US citizens who want to enter Canada.
Not quite following. What excessive requirements are you specifically referring to? US air border has always been open to Canadians.
  • Pre-arrival test - US is also requiring (not for land but for air). European countries requiring as well so it is hardly an exclusively Canadian requirement. Excessive is Australia and Hong Kong.
  • Random post-arrival testing - I hardly call that excessive.

It all comes down to politics. Did you read the strict conditions and protocols required for Americans to even come to Canada? Other Merbites mentioned them in this thread. I would never bother to come with those types of restrictions. Canada is too influenced by the left and socialism so they are too over protective. However since this entirety of this pandemic Canadians have been traveling to the US, I know a bunch of strippers who spent some months in Miami. Having said that they found a way to bypass the restrictions I do not know the whole details. They can fly but on the way back they took a chartered car ride back to Canada and were not required to quarantine at a hotel. Some just flew back but never bothered to quarantine at a hotel the fine they got is actually cheaper then the $2000 hotel fee. All this were smokes and mirrors just to show that politicians were doing something. However no American were allowed into Canada by land or flight no exceptions allowed.
Not quite following. Maybe I missed a post, but what strict conditions?

Here is how I make sense of what doesn’t make sense to you. From Day One, U.S. politicians have blamed this on The Outsiders. It was the China Virus, and then it spread outside China because the Europeans didn’t close their borders to the Chinese, and American kept traveling to Europe. Now the U.S. is arrogant enough to keep its borders closed to The Outsiders, even when they open their borders to Americans (and even though the U.S. has worse statistics than they do). And it punishes potential U.S. international travelers with a policy that says, if you leave and catch COVID, you can just damn well stay on The Outside. And unless the international trip is really short, the U.S. will know if you caught it since you have to pay for the test to get back in. And you have to tell the airline your health status, medical privacy be damned. You left The Homeland, so you forfeited all those rights.

Make sense now? I think it was STN that said his kids and their friends had expressed a preference for Spanish beaches over Florida. I suspect if the politicians in the U.S. continue their arrogance, the U.S. will lose many young people as potential tourists.

Of course the U.S. borders should be opened on a reciprocal basis to Canadians at the same time the Canadian borders opened to the U.S. But it isn’t logic being applied here, it is political pandering to those who haven’t ever left their county, let alone their country.
What's the alternative? I don't see preventing outbound international travel like Australia working in the US. Quarantine in post-arrival in US doesn't seem workable. Next best option is to discourage US residents from international travel to begin with by requiring a negative test to re-enter. Feds were clever by requiring airlines to enforce this on foreign soil instead of CBP enforcing at port of entry as the later would have been difficult to implement (can't declare US citizens inadmissible to be returned to foreign country and no federal/local/state agency has the capability to enforce a quarantine on mass scale).

As for the border, I don't see why it has to be reciprocal considering
  • it's never been reciprocal at all (non-essential US inbound by air allowed)
  • Canada didn't have to open at all.
  • US policy is not reciprocal between US and Schengen or UK.
 
Last edited: