If one proceeds upon the 2 assumptions that asking questions yields responses that enable the inquisitor to find truths, and that the truth is different for each inquisitor, then I think it would be worth asking the question every 3 weeks- so long as it's asked by a new inquisitor each time. Which seems to be the case. So let's wait another 3 weeks and see if any new truths are discovered.
The Rising Cost of the Hobby and Rate Increases
- Thread starter Mandouke
- Start date
I went low-end today and was gratified, however, it was nowhere near the independents or agencies. Saved a lot of money and achieved the same result, more or less.
I will reflect on all this during the New Year and see what and where my best options are. Perhaps, I have been overextending myself in the hobby and it is time to step back.
I believe this is a self-regulating process. When I was young and was able to f-k everything that moves, I was poor to afford SP and instead spent unbelievable amount of time and effort getting the next girl into bed. Then with steady girlfriend and eventually wife, the career and kids became priority, and sex was not even on my mind most of the time. After divorce, the sex therapy became a necessity for my mental health, but I have mongered very carefully as was afraid squandering my retirement funds. Now I have enough money for not paying much attention to the price tug, but again the decline in libido keeps my money safe for my descendants
Indeed! You need to roll their wheelchair from the door to the bed! And they take their dentures off to give you a BJ!
There's very little correlation to rates vs performance, so there's no real reason not to go downmarket if you're a little strapped. The difference tends to be in environment and occasionally but not always somewhat on looks, but there's little or no correlation to looks vs. performance either. Men always seem to think that booking a dime will result in way better sex and a better experience, and that's simply categorically untrue. The basis for spending your cash should always be performance and attituide rather than looks, 100% of the time. Of course, everyone's standard is different, and there's always a minimum level of attraction for each guy, but there's always a scale to work with, and what's objectively more attractive usually costs more without necessarily being any better. I think the guys that only chase eye candy are cheating themselves, but hey, that's just my two cents. Similar services are available all up and down the line unless you're getting into some of the specialty kinks.
So, go downmarket, go less often, or go somewhere else. Montreal is my home town, and I love the city, but I've lived in a bunch of places, and I know it shortcomings as far as mongering goes. When I started mongering it was here, picking up SWs on the street at a relatively tender age. I have since run the gamut of types of places all over the world and have come to understand that there's a lot of ways of doing things. The disappearance of SWs pushed everything upmarket a bit, but not everything and not entirely. As wolfie mentioned, the system is either breaking or broke here now, depending on who you talk to, relative to what it used to be. It is what it is. That doesn't mean that fun can't be had here, but it's not the same. Yes, I know some guys are going to come storming in here to say that's it's just as vibrant and fun and crazy as it ever was, blah, blah,blah, but it's just not, by any objective measure. This is true of a lot of places, actually, including some of my old favorite haunts. Things change. If you don't have to always indulge yourself then you can only indulge yourself occasionally here and spend your cash elsewhere in more concentrated but separated doses. Without taking travel costs into account I can monger for a week all day and night, with sex, social time, drinks, company, conversation and massages for what a 2hr session costs here. The service offering abroad is so far superior abroad to what it is here that it feels bad to come home sometimes, but hey, again it is what it is. Wolfie said he likes Europe better, but I tend to prefer latin america or Asia over Europe too. Notice I don't say that the women are better people or better looking, necessarily, but simply that the culture differences allow for a better service experience abroad. So, if you can limit your mongering to a handful of times a year then even including travel costs it's cheaper and better to travel, with perhaps an occasional indulgence here, plus you get that vacation feeling and you get to hang around with lots of like-minded guys in many of the more popular places, which you can't really here. That's a really big bonus if you've never experienced it before. If you can't travel or don't have the time then obviously this isn't for you. If you're American and drinking in the benefits of foreign exchange then maybe what Canadians are complaining about doesn't apply because of the relative currency value.
No matter what, there are a great variety of options that can be explored, even just locally. The guys here seem to like to compare agency rates as a go-to measure of relative cost, but agencies are far from the only option here locally too. You just need to open up your mind a little to explore some other possibilities.
So, go downmarket, go less often, or go somewhere else. Montreal is my home town, and I love the city, but I've lived in a bunch of places, and I know it shortcomings as far as mongering goes. When I started mongering it was here, picking up SWs on the street at a relatively tender age. I have since run the gamut of types of places all over the world and have come to understand that there's a lot of ways of doing things. The disappearance of SWs pushed everything upmarket a bit, but not everything and not entirely. As wolfie mentioned, the system is either breaking or broke here now, depending on who you talk to, relative to what it used to be. It is what it is. That doesn't mean that fun can't be had here, but it's not the same. Yes, I know some guys are going to come storming in here to say that's it's just as vibrant and fun and crazy as it ever was, blah, blah,blah, but it's just not, by any objective measure. This is true of a lot of places, actually, including some of my old favorite haunts. Things change. If you don't have to always indulge yourself then you can only indulge yourself occasionally here and spend your cash elsewhere in more concentrated but separated doses. Without taking travel costs into account I can monger for a week all day and night, with sex, social time, drinks, company, conversation and massages for what a 2hr session costs here. The service offering abroad is so far superior abroad to what it is here that it feels bad to come home sometimes, but hey, again it is what it is. Wolfie said he likes Europe better, but I tend to prefer latin america or Asia over Europe too. Notice I don't say that the women are better people or better looking, necessarily, but simply that the culture differences allow for a better service experience abroad. So, if you can limit your mongering to a handful of times a year then even including travel costs it's cheaper and better to travel, with perhaps an occasional indulgence here, plus you get that vacation feeling and you get to hang around with lots of like-minded guys in many of the more popular places, which you can't really here. That's a really big bonus if you've never experienced it before. If you can't travel or don't have the time then obviously this isn't for you. If you're American and drinking in the benefits of foreign exchange then maybe what Canadians are complaining about doesn't apply because of the relative currency value.
No matter what, there are a great variety of options that can be explored, even just locally. The guys here seem to like to compare agency rates as a go-to measure of relative cost, but agencies are far from the only option here locally too. You just need to open up your mind a little to explore some other possibilities.
My first trip to Montreal was in 2002, and I didn't hobby until a few years later. Eleganza, Devilish and xxxtase were charging $140 in the middle of the 2000's when I started, and later learned about MERB. It soon went to 160. I have Asservissante charging $130 in my logs on some of my first hobbying trips here. So I'm pretty sure you have your dates mixed up.
Or you were a client of some fine-ass higher-end shops.
Even My Montreal Girlfriend (or something similarly named), which toured the US Northeast corridor, was only charging $180-200 USD in the mid-aughts.
At the peak of my madness for this city's SPs, around 2014 / 2015, when this new triumvirate of leading agencies were birthed - Euphoria, Vogue and XO - and the prior triumvirate of Elite, xxxtase and Nadya's still reigned, the going rate was 180. It stayed at 180 for a long time. So my inflation point of reference starts from there. In the span of 10 years, it went from 180 to 250-270. The prior span of 10 years, it went from 140 to 180. So, it accelerated. A little. Combined with the lack of new attractive "conventional" talent, that's why some of us who've been around are saying what we're saying.
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My first trip to Montreal was also in 2002, and I believe wolfie is correct on the pricing range of the agencies during that period of time. Some agencies were $140, some were $130, the US exchange rate spiked to $1.60 right around the time of Jazz Festival 2002, and my first experiences that summer were with an HDH agency called Allissa, which was a competitor of Montreal Girfriends, later known as IN in their touring incarnation. I regularly booked 3 or 4 hour appointments/dinner dates at that time. In 2003 I used MG a lot, and by 2004 IN had appeared on the scene. IN, and MG, along with FKS and Allissa on the higher end, existed to satisfy the HDH client.
Perhaps the longest thread or one of the liongest threads in MERB history was when Asservissante raised its rates from $140 to $160. It started as a "revolt thread" by one of the regulars because they were one of the last agencies to raise the rate from $140 to $160, or the last. The poster annoujnced he was at the end of his rope paying $140 and could not affiord the increase, in dramatic fashion. At that time, the thread was so controversial and so posted in- it was the top thread on "New Posts" for many weeks- that it may have been the thread of the year in total hits. I am guessing this was some time in 2004-2006 window. It got to the point that Martin or one of his surrogates took the unusual step to post in the thread. It was a short and sweet post which said, "I am losing my girls to the other agencies who are charging $160, so I had no choice but to raise rates in order to keep my girls." This should have been common sense to all who studied introductory economics in college, but it was not. Even after that post, the thread continued, and then the Mods finally shut it down. I seem to recall some snide posts that Martin should keep the rate at $140 and pay his girls another $20, in other words, that he should work for free. At that time there were accusations that the thread was being stoked and propelled by posters who were in reality agents and saboteurs of other agencies, and not just dissatisfied Asservissante clients. At that time, Asservissante was a very busy agency, with a reputation for reliability, good service and good availabiity. Some years later I actually met Martin in person through a friend, and he was a very nice guy.
I think it's important to undertstand the history Wolfie has posted about. In the 2002-2010 years, my activities as a client in Montreal, New York City and in Florida were at their peak. At that time, the value in Montreal as compared to the United States seemed almost insane to me, and I felt like I was getting quite a bit of value for almost nothing in return. It was because of that and the higher libido at that time that I thought I could descend into addiction, which fortunately did not happen. Now it's way too late for that to happen.
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I remember that Asservissante thread. The mods were kind with their light touch and to just let it run. People needed to get it off their chest.
Haha… MERB was just more fun with a little more drama.
And, to second the sentiment and add, both Martin’s were real gents. I didn’t use Asservissante nearly as much as xxxtase - but, like almost all of the agency owners and bookers back them, super authentic, super nice. I met the other Martin at his breakfast spot once. He’s probably my favorite booker / owner in Montreal. Sweet-talked me into so many girls I had zero intention of booking. But he knew, he knew something. Most of his rec’s were good, just spot on, like Daphne.Tied with Goodgirls Mike, who used to buy me drinks while we waited for a room to open up at the Chabrol. Hahaha. Fun times…
The mods were kind with their light touch and to just let it run. People needed to get it off their chest.Haha… MERB was just more fun with a little more drama.
And, to second the sentiment and add, both Martin’s were real gents. I didn’t use Asservissante nearly as much as xxxtase - but, like almost all of the agency owners and bookers back them, super authentic, super nice. I met the other Martin at his breakfast spot once. He’s probably my favorite booker / owner in Montreal. Sweet-talked me into so many girls I had zero intention of booking. But he knew, he knew something. Most of his rec’s were good, just spot on, like Daphne.Tied with Goodgirls Mike, who used to buy me drinks while we waited for a room to open up at the Chabrol. Hahaha. Fun times…
I also met Martin of XXXtase at his restaurant, and in fact I played ping pong with him in the basement of that place (he beat me and was a pretty good player). Both Martins were very good guys but very different. Martin of XXXtase was a little bit more like James of Euphoria although not as intense as James (and of course Martin is French and James is an Anglophone). Martin of Asservissante struck me as almost nerdy and more of an art-loving kind of guy. In fact I met him at a Jazz Festival concert towards the end of his agency's run.I remember that Asservissante thread.
Haha… MERB was just more fun with a little more drama.
And, to second the sentiment and add, both Martin’s were real gents. I didn’t use Asservissante nearly as much as xxxtase - but, like almost all of the agency owners and bookers back them, super authentic, super nice. I met the other Martin at his breakfast spot once. He’s probably my favorite booker / owner in Montreal. Sweet-talked me into so many girls I had zero intention of booking. But he knew, he knew something. Most of his rec’s were good, just spot on, like Daphne.Tied with Goodgirls Mike, who used to buy me drinks while we waited for a room to open up at the Chabrol. Hahaha. Fun times…
That Asservissante thread seemed to be filled with drama. Not just the drama of the haves vs. have nots among hobbyists but the virtues of HDH vs LDL escorts and then accusations of agency smearing. If someone does a search you may find it but I think the Mods locked it at some point. The Mods at that time did show great restraint with that thread but it pushed the envelope on drama.
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I should add that in 21 years on MERB I have seen these pricing threads reappear repeatedly, as well as threads about prejudice vs. black men or clients of color, and threads on STDs. Generally speaking they are all redundant and say the same thing as if it hadn't been said before many times. In some cases posters seem to naively believe they are raising an issue of first impression, when in fact it's been beaten to death and rehashed over and over many times before.
Hello wolfie7,
Oh how I remember these places, especially devilish, for those late night/early morning booty calls. 140$ didn't seem so bad back then, just meant an extra trip to the blood bank, lol.
I remember when Jesse an ex SP first opened MSC, Jesse had 3 hour specials running and I took advantage of them. I can remember waking up in the morning and chatting with her on MSN, I believe that's what it was, wow this is way back. We use to chat with many SPs back then, its not like this anymore.
Yes, the rates have changed, but no more then anything else in my life, I have learned to take the good with the bad and make the best of it.
What really has pissed me off is the ridiculous price hikes to play a round of golf. I use to be able to play 2 or 3 rounds a week, now I'm lucky to get one round in.
I guess you guys can tell where my priorities are. lol.
And wolfie7, I am happy you are still around, too many old timers have moved on.
I never really understand why people see agencies as their only reasonable option to source companions. Of course there's LL too, but there's a number of local classified sites that advertise SP services, there's the MPs, there's the secondary pages and there's the semi pro channels as well. Some require some active filtering but there's lots of sources available. Line up a small stable of regulars and go that route so you have fall backs. Most semi-pros aren't always regularly available but if there are enough of them in your circuit then you should be covered. More work to set up but once you do much cheaper than agencies.
Hahaha. Priorities!!
Glad you’re still around, too.
I miss Jesse and her MSC crew, and those silly little photo watermarks lol. Small shop, but some real gems! And yes, Devilish and their 2nd brand Girls on Fire, which seemed to focus on the late night urges!
I think xxxtase’s Candy targeted the same hours. Looking back, we were spoiled.I understand that rising costs are just reflecting the cost of living. I thought the big change was pre and post COVID. I noticed providers who were willing to risk continuing to do business started charging more, and Lo and behold, clients were willing to pay more. And, as others have pointed out, if a beautiful woman can get clients who pay more, why shouldn’t she?
But I came into The Lounge hoping to find a thread with a more useful topic: “Have any of you found a hidden gem who’s charging a bit less?”. Maybe I’ll start a thread like that. Or if anyone knows of such a thread, please direct me to it!
It's quite useful, if you read between the lines a little. As for the hidden gems thread, go for it! Of course, history has dictated that the guys who are most likely to know the hidden gems are the least likely to share them in an open forum, at least here on MERB. Also, definitions of both "hidden gems" and "charging a bit less" are highly subjective. I would love for everyone to prove me wrong on this though.
For my part, going Indy can be cheaper if you book multiple hours. Like 6h, and you don’t need to pay the normal agency rate at $270/h
You can have a social time rate and fun rate.
Especially if you are a regular, you can get regular client rate etc
And if you book at night there is high chance to just hang out as friend after, it’s kind of the perks to be the only client of the day and a fun one.
Other than that, going abroad like Colombia seems cheaper
You can have a social time rate and fun rate.
Especially if you are a regular, you can get regular client rate etc
And if you book at night there is high chance to just hang out as friend after, it’s kind of the perks to be the only client of the day and a fun one.
Other than that, going abroad like Colombia seems cheaper
Round flight tickets to Central and South America can be purchased for under $500. If you are willing to concentrate your hobbying to a 1-2 week time period instead of let's say six month, this is the best bang for the buck.
The significant price increases are primarily among Indies. The increase in agency prices is largely inline with inflation. However, a few years ago, there were many Indies on tryst that charged hourly rates roughly in line with indy prices, now most on Tryst are 2x agency prices.
Price increases are one thing, but quality has objectively gone down significantly post covid. The many newer hobbyists do not have any point of comparison, so they are fine paying more for less. As a result, unfortunately there is not much incentive for the situation to improve
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