You better double wrap your complete body twice before you see someone in Tijuana, can not really call that Mexico. I am still shuttering over the thought.
Why are MERB posts/threads/ads overwhelmingly in English?
- Thread starter Vajatron
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You better double wrap your complete body twice before you see someone in Tijuana, can not really call that Mexico. I am still shuttering over the thought.
Sidney,
You speak of English novels being written in fewer words than the French language translations. A good English writer to experiment with in terms of novels is Ernest Hemingway. Hemingway was one of the great American writers of the 20th Century and is world famous for his "terse" style of English prose. You might want to look and see what the French did with Hemingway in order to translate this terse quality of prose. I wonder if his novels lost their impact in Quebec/France as a result of the quality of the translations, or lack thereof. A lot of American schools teach Hemingway in writing classes, as this style of writing became a favored template in the 20th century.
More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Hemingway
You speak of English novels being written in fewer words than the French language translations. A good English writer to experiment with in terms of novels is Ernest Hemingway. Hemingway was one of the great American writers of the 20th Century and is world famous for his "terse" style of English prose. You might want to look and see what the French did with Hemingway in order to translate this terse quality of prose. I wonder if his novels lost their impact in Quebec/France as a result of the quality of the translations, or lack thereof. A lot of American schools teach Hemingway in writing classes, as this style of writing became a favored template in the 20th century.
More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Hemingway
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Hemingway is a totally different style of prose. Being that you are fully bilingual, you should read "A Farewell to Arms" by Hemingway in English than see what the French translation is like. The book is semi-autobiographical and based on Hemingway's real life experiences and romance during World War I when, as an 18 year old ambulance driver in Italy, he fell in love with a 25 year old Red Cross nurse by the name of Agnes von Kurowsky, while recovering from severe wounds at an American Red Cross Hospital.
Hello all,
I've been looking at various language learning ranking sites. They're pretty consistent. One oddity is Spanish is usually rated slightly easier to learn than French despite some significant integration of Arabic (usually rated on of the most difficult languages to learn) because of nearly 800 years of Moorish occupation and influence in Spain, in contrast to French and English integration after the Norman (French) conquest of 1066.
You mean having a habit of stating something that cannot be proven as fact, but clinging to it as fact anyway...ie...Shatner being the most famous Quebecer.
The difference would likely be receptiveness, motivation, the ability to distinguish the words and syntax structure, etc. I think anyone can learn any language. It's just a matter of more difficulty and the willingness to put in the time for some versus others. Allowing yourself to create a mental block and giving up on it as "gibberish" is a big part of the problem. Some have stated their ease at learning Chinese, always rated one of the most difficult for foreigners. Certainly that's a matter of individual listening and understanding aptitude, but also motivation and determination instead of dismissing it as gibberish...and then branding it as too difficult, thus giving up.
Good luck,
Merlot
I've been looking at various language learning ranking sites. They're pretty consistent. One oddity is Spanish is usually rated slightly easier to learn than French despite some significant integration of Arabic (usually rated on of the most difficult languages to learn) because of nearly 800 years of Moorish occupation and influence in Spain, in contrast to French and English integration after the Norman (French) conquest of 1066.
You mean having a habit of stating something that cannot be proven as fact, but clinging to it as fact anyway...ie...Shatner being the most famous Quebecer.
The difference would likely be receptiveness, motivation, the ability to distinguish the words and syntax structure, etc. I think anyone can learn any language. It's just a matter of more difficulty and the willingness to put in the time for some versus others. Allowing yourself to create a mental block and giving up on it as "gibberish" is a big part of the problem. Some have stated their ease at learning Chinese, always rated one of the most difficult for foreigners. Certainly that's a matter of individual listening and understanding aptitude, but also motivation and determination instead of dismissing it as gibberish...and then branding it as too difficult, thus giving up.
Good luck,
Merlot
I completely agree with you here. I suck at languages or anything artistic. I always did. Even though English is my first language I barely passed my language courses in school. However I always aced in Mathematics, Physics, and Chemistry my marks were consistently above 90%. Give me numbers, formulas, problems and I will learn it with little effort.
Anan_vlad and Merlot explained it very well. French has many rules like grammar and feminine and masculine. Quite frankly I cannot seem to grasp it. Other thing is that the US is the superpower they are omnipotent. The media is dominated by Americans which means almost every part of the world is exposed to some English. American movies and music is everywhere. Look at Quebecors who watch American movies and buy American music. All these were originally done in English. The movies might be dubbed into French but the music remains in English. Is it any wonder why English is so much easier to learn then French is?
First, I don't think Merlot ever pretended english is easier to learn than french as a second language.
Second, I think the argument about the omnipotent USA denotes imperialism applied to linguistics. It does not render english grammar easier per se easier.
Our translators have told us about quantitative aspects (word counts) of both language. I would be curious to hear them about professional revision of texts. My impression is that the subtleties of both language are comparable. I write decent french professionally, but every time a professional correctors goes over texts I produce I get surprised I make so many errors. My impression is that the same would apply to most people in english. But I may be wrong. I think english spelling is terribly complicated, as much as french.
Second, I think the argument about the omnipotent USA denotes imperialism applied to linguistics. It does not render english grammar easier per se easier.
Our translators have told us about quantitative aspects (word counts) of both language. I would be curious to hear them about professional revision of texts. My impression is that the subtleties of both language are comparable. I write decent french professionally, but every time a professional correctors goes over texts I produce I get surprised I make so many errors. My impression is that the same would apply to most people in english. But I may be wrong. I think english spelling is terribly complicated, as much as french.
I was a law review editor after being a student author and successfully having a Comment and a Note published. While I was a student author, I was blessed to have a very talented editor. She noticed that I had a very bad propensity for writing in the passive voice, and completely purged it from my drafts. I recall being very proud of the 1st draft of the Note that I submitted (which went on to get published), but when I got it back there were so many corrections that I went home that day in a major depression. I thought I might struggle to get certified and get my law review credits. But I got over it and worked harder at it. It was very hard to learn how to write scholarly legal articles at that level, at first. I also realized my editor was an absolute perfectionist and was the best of all the editors at that law review.
It's funny but I was thinking about her the other day. Having later become an editor myself, officially responsible for a number of student authors, I realized what hard work it is. When you are an editor on a law review, you realize that there are a lot of students who make law review that are just not naturally talented writers. They have the abilities to spot legal issues on exams and memorize complex legal principles, but their natural writing ability may not be so good. This was the biggest surprise to me as an editor. I recall one guy in particular who really was struggling with another editor and he came to me and asked me to help him, even though I was not his assigned editor. His writing was really kind of brutal, even though he was a very bright and thoughtful guy. It's really hard when you are working with people like that because these are very talented people who know their writing is not so good. He knew his job was just to get certified and forget about getting published because that was not going to happen. We did end up certifying him and he got his law review credits.
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Accent has a lot to do with it also, I do not have the Ahhh or the Augh... ( Hard to put in typing ). For me trying to say the number one correctly is near impossible. For me speaking French, after I basterdised the language to the extreme most people who know English ask me to stop and they will speak English to me. Still trying though
Hello all,
This word is a bit too strong. I'd say the influences you describe have been too strongly pervasive to resist completely. Elements like movies and music become infectious because of their reach and attractiveness.
No, I haven't said whether either is harder to learn because I don't see how you can measure the difficulty for those trying to learn either. I have said certain individuals have over-reached in their conclusions because they have tried to impose their own personal experiences by saying their example is true for everyone, which is an extremely narrow presumption at best.
I wouldn't classy myself as a good French speaker at all, in fact I'm extremely limited. However, being in Montreal and dealing with very repetitive situations, like shopping and dining, where I've had a great deal of practice I have been complemented on the common phrases necessary in these situations. I don't take that as much of an achievement. But I am getting what I use right, and sometimes I am initially taken for French until I have to move past the limited phrases I rely on.
When I read in this thread that French is much harder than English, I do have to chuckle at the irony that some native English speakers on this board write poorly in consistent ways. There's a whole slew of context uses some English writers seem never to have learned because they do the same mistakes over and over. Then there are many words Anglos just can't spell. One of the most abused words is..."definitely". The letter "i" in either place has been replaced by "a" or "e" with a frequency that becomes unbelievable.
French friends of mine have pointed out that the same can be true with native French writers making big mistakes in their own language. Some are just as bad as poor English speakers according to French friends. But though I've noticed French writers using English may make some context mistakes, their spelling has been extremely good very consistently. Some are much more skilled at higher level English vocabulary than native English speakers in both spelling and accurate context.
Generally, having seen what kind of writing has been put out on this board over the years regarding the poor way some native English speakers write it's very hard for anyone to say based on the evidence that French is harder, especially when some saying that are the ones in no position to judge English, never mind French or other languages.
Cheers,
Merlot
This word is a bit too strong. I'd say the influences you describe have been too strongly pervasive to resist completely. Elements like movies and music become infectious because of their reach and attractiveness.
No, I haven't said whether either is harder to learn because I don't see how you can measure the difficulty for those trying to learn either. I have said certain individuals have over-reached in their conclusions because they have tried to impose their own personal experiences by saying their example is true for everyone, which is an extremely narrow presumption at best.
For me speaking French, after I basterdised the language to the extreme most people who know English ask me to stop and they will speak English to me. Still trying though
I wouldn't classy myself as a good French speaker at all, in fact I'm extremely limited. However, being in Montreal and dealing with very repetitive situations, like shopping and dining, where I've had a great deal of practice I have been complemented on the common phrases necessary in these situations. I don't take that as much of an achievement. But I am getting what I use right, and sometimes I am initially taken for French until I have to move past the limited phrases I rely on.
When I read in this thread that French is much harder than English, I do have to chuckle at the irony that some native English speakers on this board write poorly in consistent ways. There's a whole slew of context uses some English writers seem never to have learned because they do the same mistakes over and over. Then there are many words Anglos just can't spell. One of the most abused words is..."definitely". The letter "i" in either place has been replaced by "a" or "e" with a frequency that becomes unbelievable.
French friends of mine have pointed out that the same can be true with native French writers making big mistakes in their own language. Some are just as bad as poor English speakers according to French friends. But though I've noticed French writers using English may make some context mistakes, their spelling has been extremely good very consistently. Some are much more skilled at higher level English vocabulary than native English speakers in both spelling and accurate context.
Generally, having seen what kind of writing has been put out on this board over the years regarding the poor way some native English speakers write it's very hard for anyone to say based on the evidence that French is harder, especially when some saying that are the ones in no position to judge English, never mind French or other languages.
Cheers,
Merlot
You misinterpreted what I wrote. I never wrote anything about imperialism but it is not too far away from that. However the US is the superpower. Their presence is almost everywhere in the world. Greater exposer to English means the greater the chances to learn the language. People are not as exposed to French as they are to English. That is fact whether you like it or not and nothing will change that.
Things about english that bother the Chinese.
Cooker = a cooking vessel
Baker = a person that bakes
Cook = a person that cooks, or a verb
Boiler = a part of a heating system or engine
Steamer = a boat or a cooking vessl
Frier = a cooking vessel
Knife, knob, knot, knew, gnat, gnaw, gnome, pseudo..., pneum..., psych..., sword,answer, wrong, write, wonder, wander, wrought, tough, through, rough, though, thorough, trough, now, bow, row, how, cow, stow, crow, wow, tow, slow,
The list of inconsistent pronounciations and silent letters is much longer than this.
My wife thinks fucking and cooking are cities in China. (Mad Dog and Glory, De Niro's character)
Cooker = a cooking vessel
Baker = a person that bakes
Cook = a person that cooks, or a verb
Boiler = a part of a heating system or engine
Steamer = a boat or a cooking vessl
Frier = a cooking vessel
Knife, knob, knot, knew, gnat, gnaw, gnome, pseudo..., pneum..., psych..., sword,answer, wrong, write, wonder, wander, wrought, tough, through, rough, though, thorough, trough, now, bow, row, how, cow, stow, crow, wow, tow, slow,
The list of inconsistent pronounciations and silent letters is much longer than this.
My wife thinks fucking and cooking are cities in China. (Mad Dog and Glory, De Niro's character)
First, I did not want you to take this personally, I don't think you did anyway. For maybe the first time people decided to talk about the love of language without it turning to the usual cat fight. Think about it: 124 post and the flaming has not stated yet. Kudo to all!
My sentence sounded inflammatory. It was not. Simply a respectful comment that the citizens of USA should be careful. Everybody, all around the world, is very aware of the inevitable attraction of english. They learn it because they know how useful it is. But we are in the middle of a paradox here: people all over the world would benefit knowing a common language. The interest of the world, on the other hand, lies precisely in it's diversity. People are, more then anything else, a language.
This discussion somewhat reminds me that back in about 2005, when his agency was fairly new, Martin of XXxtase did not speak very good English. I would describe his English at that time as crude. However, he improved his English rather dramatically, in the space of a few years.
Along the same lines was the former Jessie of Eleganza. When I saw her at 19 years old back in 2006, she spoke heavily accented English that was functional for conversation. Fast forward 4 years to 2010, she was working at another agency. She looked as good or better than she did when she was 19, and, much to my surprise, she was now speaking perfect English and honestly, she sounded like a native Anglophone. I asked her about this, and she had spent a lot of time in USA and Toronto, presumably working, in the intervening years. Jessie's was the most dramatic improvement in quality of English of any escort I ever met who was a native Francophone.
Along the same lines was the former Jessie of Eleganza. When I saw her at 19 years old back in 2006, she spoke heavily accented English that was functional for conversation. Fast forward 4 years to 2010, she was working at another agency. She looked as good or better than she did when she was 19, and, much to my surprise, she was now speaking perfect English and honestly, she sounded like a native Anglophone. I asked her about this, and she had spent a lot of time in USA and Toronto, presumably working, in the intervening years. Jessie's was the most dramatic improvement in quality of English of any escort I ever met who was a native Francophone.
Prostitution is legal there, so the services advertise what you will get. The city is not the cleanest, but worth it for the hot latinas 45 mins. away!
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