You are correct but as we have seen from some posts in this thread, some of the locals do not understand the dynamics of their own local market and the economic forces at play which dictate a no bargaining approach. This approach may work in Las Vegas casinos or in the South and Central American club markets, but there are different factors at work in those markets. Pricing and negotiation is dictated by market forces and you either learn those forces and guide your actions accordingly, or your ignorance shall doom you to failure in your hobbying exploits.
Why are MERB posts/threads/ads overwhelmingly in English?
- Thread starter Vajatron
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You are correct but as we have seen from some posts in this thread, some of the locals do not understand the dynamics of their own local market and the economic forces at play which dictate a no bargaining approach. This approach may work in Las Vegas casinos or in the South and Central American club markets, but there are different factors at work in those markets. Pricing and negotiation is dictated by market forces and you either learn those forces and guide your actions accordingly, or your ignorance shall doom you to failure in your hobbying exploits.
Beaver, the house market in Montreal now a days is dominated, or at least largely shared, by the massage industry where negotiations are most often part of the equation. The house take and entrance fee and the rest is negotiated behind closed door between the client and the provider. Also, the massage sector is competing something quite closely with escort services. So negotiations being part of the massage sector for sometimes similar services, it explains why locals are more prone to negotiate with escorts. Tourists are mainly escorts patrons.
In every businesses in the world, locals manage to have better prices than tourists by bargaining. Why ? Cause officials prices are made for tourists, and sellers know it even if they will never admit it. Maybe locals can't have rebates from agencies that deal with a lot of tourists, but from what I heard it works with indépendants who know that only the locals can become regulars costumers. And that's even more true in MP...
So IMO, people who don't understand the dynamic of a market are outsiders who say "why are you bargaining, the prices are so cheap !" cause they only base their opinion about the price by comparing with their own market, which is totally misleading.
One of the big economic rule is that locals are always the better to know their own local market and the best way to obtain good prices.
Anyway, I never bargain 1/ cause I don't need to 2/ cause the SP often really need this 20 more $ I could have saved
Different animal because what you are negotiating for are extra services that are included in the fee for an escort. And the MP market is the same in that respect everywhere, not just Montreal. The price structure varies but not the fact that extras are negotiated.
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Your premise has already been refuted by several indies who have posted that the overwhelming majority of their customers are out of towners, one citing a % of 85-90%. We are talking about MERB advertisers in this thread, not Journal de Montreal or Craig's List lower end indies that may cater to locals.
No we are talking about general prostitution market in Mtl.
MERB is not a good exemple as it's mainly made for tourists. The fact you base your opinion on the prostitution market on the MERB exemple is the reason why you fail to understand locals behaviours.
An other simple economic rule : if you don't understand locals economic behaviour, that's not because locals are retarded, but just cause you haven't yet understand the all dynamic of the local market...
MERB is not a good exemple as it's mainly made for tourists. The fact you base your opinion on the prostitution market on the MERB exemple is the reason why you fail to understand locals behaviours.
An other simple economic rule : if you don't understand locals economic behaviour, that's not because locals are retarded, but just cause you haven't yet understand the all dynamic of the local market...
But that is what this thread about - MERB advertisers, and the truth is that in some respects it provides a benchmark for what the market is. All of us are here on MERB and the market that relates to the level of hobbying manifested by its advertisers. If we were on a board about CL advertising we would be having a different discussion. I was referring to specific responses in this thread to Lily who is a MERB advertiser so that is the market under discussion, not another one. If the people do not understand that this is what is under discussion, then they do not understand the market and should not be commenting about MERB or its advertisers.
The discussion was now about locals behaviours about prostitution in Mtl (suite aux propos de Lily), not about merb advertisers. That's why gugu talked about MP, and others about locals that bargain.
And if you look more attentivily at MERB, you will find a lot of threads about "cheaper" indies from ann123 or CL...
And if you look more attentivily at MERB, you will find a lot of threads about "cheaper" indies from ann123 or CL...
Actually I have a number of regulars who aren't locals, but travel to Montreal often, both for business and pleasure.
Only once did a potential client attempt to negotiate my rates, and honestly, it was a little insulting. I'm not surprised I was offended given the personal nature of the services I am offering.
I do think that if a client wants to pay less than what I am asking he should shop for a provider in the price range that he is willing to pay.
100% agree with you, the nature of the services makes the bargaining offending in escorting. That's also why I never do.
BOYZ,
You seem to say at first there is a very firm line on price, but then "you either learn those forces and guide your actions" implies it's about knowing where the flexible points are.
I take the word of the ladies who have posted as fact. However, I don't know what percentage of locals try to negotiate with agencies or Indies, but I have to chuckle a bit at any idea that a much greater percentage of tourists are honoring prices as advertised. I hear so much about visiting hobbyists wangling this or wangling that in one way or one reason or another, negotiating for discounts, including some veteran board names. So it's fascinating to me to see claims that say locals and tourists are using very different approaches.
As for Independents specifically, I've been told by very reliable sources with far more financial resources than me that some of the greatest Indies ever to grace Montreal were very, very flexible on rates.
My picture of the industry is it's not locked into Indies versus agencies, tourists versus locals as argued lately.. A lot can be done depending on the specific interaction of the client entity with the business entity, even though many may not succeed at dealing.
BTW...isn't this a whole other subject the thread starter never intended.
Good luck,
Merlot
You seem to say at first there is a very firm line on price, but then "you either learn those forces and guide your actions" implies it's about knowing where the flexible points are.
I take the word of the ladies who have posted as fact. However, I don't know what percentage of locals try to negotiate with agencies or Indies, but I have to chuckle a bit at any idea that a much greater percentage of tourists are honoring prices as advertised. I hear so much about visiting hobbyists wangling this or wangling that in one way or one reason or another, negotiating for discounts, including some veteran board names. So it's fascinating to me to see claims that say locals and tourists are using very different approaches.
As for Independents specifically, I've been told by very reliable sources with far more financial resources than me that some of the greatest Indies ever to grace Montreal were very, very flexible on rates.
My picture of the industry is it's not locked into Indies versus agencies, tourists versus locals as argued lately.. A lot can be done depending on the specific interaction of the client entity with the business entity, even though many may not succeed at dealing.
BTW...isn't this a whole other subject the thread starter never intended.
Good luck,
Merlot
Merlot, you are not following the thread. My comment was directed at several posters who chided Lily in French for not permitting negotiations. The no bargaining comment was directed at those posters. That means you guide your actions accordingly when dealing with a MERB advertiser within this market. In other words you have somehow managed to contort this quote to mean the exact opposite of what was intended.
You misunderstood the french posts, EB. The fact she doesnt permit negotiations wasn't the reason why she was blamed.
Oh! And by the way, an other reason why negotiations are frequent in the business of escorting is that with many agencies and indeed many indys, price is structured on all sort of extras. Negotiations are initiated by the provider in that case. As a matter fact, I was told by some that even agencies advertising here have sometimes different practices for clients they know are not board members. The GFE packages are still quite new in this business. It is not yet adopted by all sex providers.
I am relying on translators to get the job done. Lily posted in English that she was upset that locals were trying to negotiate with her, and several locals responded in French with virulently critical posts - some of which were deleted by the Mod. I did the best I could to piece together what they were saying but it seemed that they were chiding her for not allowing clients to negotiate and/or for implying that such clients were cheapos. The discussion then went generally to principles in dealing with escorts in Montreal, but speaking of not the very low end but rather the brand that advertises on MERB. Which is the market rate escorts and high end HDH types. There is a class of escort that is LLDL, which is basically the Craig's List advertiser and then of course the lowest level of street walkers where negotiation is the general rule. I never indicated I was discussing these lower categories of LLDL and LLLDL. While there may be threads on MERB about them, I have never even looked at, let alone posted in any of them. I am talking about the mainstream of MERB, and I am sure everyone knew that.
It's like talking about mainstream rock music vs. garage bands.
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Merlot, I know Lilly and you know each other pretty well.
But yes, Lily made a huge stereotype in a thread that wasn't about the difference between french and English costumers :
Question : Why are MERB posts/threads/ads overwhelmingly in English ?
Lily's Answer : "Because my favorites friends are americans or English" ; "Because no english guy tries to bargain ,it is the kiss of death by the way, while I lost count of french guys who did"
Euh ok Lily, you love the american tourists, now they know it on MERB where they all are, but that wasnt the subject... And btw you use a huge stereotype...
Seriously, if we can avoid this kind of useless comments on such a delicate matter it would be great. I was quite nice with her, didn't use any préjudices to answer to hers, also find her the excuse of being an advertiser and said that she should be a good busineswoman... Well I wouldnt have been so nice with a guy... As I said, she's clever enough not to exactly know what she is doing. And the fact that the costumers she is looking for are defending her in this thread is a good proof of it...
But yes, Lily made a huge stereotype in a thread that wasn't about the difference between french and English costumers :
Question : Why are MERB posts/threads/ads overwhelmingly in English ?
Lily's Answer : "Because my favorites friends are americans or English" ; "Because no english guy tries to bargain ,it is the kiss of death by the way, while I lost count of french guys who did"
Euh ok Lily, you love the american tourists, now they know it on MERB where they all are, but that wasnt the subject... And btw you use a huge stereotype...Seriously, if we can avoid this kind of useless comments on such a delicate matter it would be great. I was quite nice with her, didn't use any préjudices to answer to hers, also find her the excuse of being an advertiser and said that she should be a good busineswoman... Well I wouldnt have been so nice with a guy... As I said, she's clever enough not to exactly know what she is doing. And the fact that the costumers she is looking for are defending her in this thread is a good proof of it...
man77777,
I never met Lily. In fact, she recently made some blind accusation that I made unspecified derogatory comments about SPs. Which is kind of funny as I have also been criticized for being too nice to SPs, in my postings, and never defending the hobbyists who posts negatively about their SP interactions. I intervened in this thread because I felt that Lilly was just posting honestly her feelings on the matter, feelings which have been expressed to me by other escorts. I felt she did not deserve the chiding she was getting, and decided to go to bat for her. I am certainly no White Knight as I never met her, and doubt I will. But what is fair is fair.
I can understand your point about Lilly seeking to endear herself to her perceived customer base, but since I never met her, I cannot accurately judge how clever she really is. I do get your point. I have met some escorts who are very clever in being able to get guys interested in them - they know how to talk in superficial meetings, or on boards - but are not so clever over the long haul, so to speak, when they are talking to someone who knows how to talk and sift through these facades. I am someone who in person does not look very intelligent, so I am used to escorts talking to me like I am some average dummy. One lady, when I told her I was an avocat, she expressed shock and told me she was certain I was either a cop or construction worker. In other words, I looked dumber. It is funny but you learn more about people when you look stupid, so I am glad that I do.
I never met Lily. In fact, she recently made some blind accusation that I made unspecified derogatory comments about SPs. Which is kind of funny as I have also been criticized for being too nice to SPs, in my postings, and never defending the hobbyists who posts negatively about their SP interactions. I intervened in this thread because I felt that Lilly was just posting honestly her feelings on the matter, feelings which have been expressed to me by other escorts. I felt she did not deserve the chiding she was getting, and decided to go to bat for her. I am certainly no White Knight as I never met her, and doubt I will. But what is fair is fair.
I can understand your point about Lilly seeking to endear herself to her perceived customer base, but since I never met her, I cannot accurately judge how clever she really is. I do get your point. I have met some escorts who are very clever in being able to get guys interested in them - they know how to talk in superficial meetings, or on boards - but are not so clever over the long haul, so to speak, when they are talking to someone who knows how to talk and sift through these facades. I am someone who in person does not look very intelligent, so I am used to escorts talking to me like I am some average dummy. One lady, when I told her I was an avocat, she expressed shock and told me she was certain I was either a cop or construction worker. In other words, I looked dumber. It is funny but you learn more about people when you look stupid, so I am glad that I do.
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With the escort thinking you were a construction worker or cop actually say they were dumber looking or are you saying they are stupid compared to lawyers? I know a few intelligent construction workers who do their job because they like it.
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