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2014 Official NFL Thread

daydreamer41

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IS THE SUSPENSION ALREADY INVALID???

NFLPA wants Roger Goodell out of Tom Brady case

https://www.bostonherald.com/sports...lpa_wants_roger_goodell_out_of_tom_brady_case

GOODELL IS IN BIG TROUBLE.

I heard a few hours ago that there is going to be a league owners meeting next week. It was with Kraft's significant help that Goodell remained as commissioner during the last vote. This meeting doesn't involve a vote on Goodell, not planned anyway, but clearly Goodell has lost all of Kraft's support since the atrocious handling of this episode.

Cheers,

Merlot


Boyzzzzzzz,

Who cares what the NFLPA wants. The fans want Shady Brady suspended. The fact that Bob Krafty is threatening his support for Goodell is a reflection of how corrupt the NFL owners have become.

Goodell has balls to address this head on because most "moral" fans abhor cheaters, and having balls in this situation is Good. So I say Goodell is Good for the NFL. Renew his contract. Give Shady Brady a 1 year suspension like he deserves.
 

Merlot

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Boyzzzzzzz,

Who cares what the NFLPA wants. The fans want Shady Brady suspended.

Funny. Fans?????????? You mean those who agree with you. You use the knowledge and expertise of other ball players and writers who have standing in their opinion when they agree with you but you run to the fans when the former, like those on the NFLPA are not on your side. As always your principles twist or run for cover when it it suits your narrow purpose.

Your pal Vercingentorix is against mob rule, so he says, yet you run to it.

The fact that Bob Krafty is threatening his support for Goodell is a reflection of how corrupt the NFL owners have become.

Goodell has balls to address this head on because most "moral" fans abhor cheaters, and having balls in this situation is Good. So I say Goodell is Good for the NFL. Renew his contract. Give Shady Brady a 1 year suspension like he deserves.

This is a complete misunderstanding of what was written. Bob Kraft has not threatened anything. We do not know if Goodells job is on the line, yet. I gave an opinion that Goodell has lost Kraft's support completely and that Goodell's job could be on the line based on the harshness of the NFLPA's reaction to his ruling. I believe it is. But that doesn't make it fact. Now you are already going on about "how corrupt NFL owners have become" because you are worried Goodell's judgment will not hold up.

One real fact is Goodell was in trouble before this year and Kraft was one of his saving supporters. You weren't howling about any conspiracy then, but now that you are obviously worried Goodell, who is doing what YOU want, is in trouble and all of a sudden there's a conspiracy. Why don't you just say HILLARY DID IT as usual. C'mon buddy, you know you want to. :D

:nono:

Merlot
 
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daydreamer41

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:rolleyes:



Funny. Fans?????????? You mean those who agree with you. You use the knowledge and expertise of other ball players and writers who have standing in their opinion when they agree with you but you run to the fans when the former, like those on the NFLPA are not on your side. As always your principles twist or run for cover when it it suits your narrow purpose.

You pal Vercingentorix is against mob rule, so he says, yet you run to it.

67% of all football fans agree with me. 75% of all AVID football fans agree with me.

Shady Brady is obstructing the investigation. Case Closed.

This is a complete misunderstanding of what was written. For one thing what you are referring to was written by me yesterday. Bob Kraft has not threatened anything. We do not know if Goodells job is on the line, yet. I gave an opinion that Goodell has lost Kraft's support completely and that Goodell's job could be on the line, and now you act like my opinion is the real situation. I believe it is. But that doesn't make it fact. Based on my surmising you are already going on about "how corrupt NFL owners have become".

One real fact is Goodell was in trouble before this year and Kraft was one of his saving supporters. You weren't howling about any conspiracy then, but now that you are obviously worried Goodell, who is doing what YOU want, is in trouble and all of a sudden there's a conspiracy. Why don't you just say HILLARY DID IT as usual. C'mon buddy, you know you want to. :D

:nono:

Merlot

Hillary is guilty in every scam she accused of because she believes she is above the law. She used her personal email account for State Dept business, which is against the department rules. She deleted those emails. So if you want to get into the Hillary Obstruction of Justice case, which should be investigated by a grand jury, which it will not because laws only apply to individuals who are not on the Obama team, go ahead. You will lose. But an analogy can be drawn between Hillary and Shady Brady (you brought up Hillary, not me). Corrupt individuals believe laws and rules do not apply to them. This is what you have here.
 

daydreamer41

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Patriots' excuses weigh thin in DeflateGate scandal
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS Sunday, May 17, 2015, 12:16 AM
Mike Lupica


You know who knows everything about those 11 under-inflated footballs at the AFC Championship Game and DeflateGate? Jim McNally and John Jastremski, that’s who. They’re the equipment guys who used to work for the New England Patriots, who continue to say this is all one big misunderstanding.

But if it really is just a big misunderstanding, then why were McNally and Jastremski suspended, and not just for four games, suspended indefinitely, by the Patriots?

McNally and Jastremski were suspended the day Ted Wells’ report on DeflateGate was released. Only now that the Patriots have rebutted the Wells Report with a document that seems longer than the Pentagon Papers, and the NFL Players Association has appealed, and there is at least the suggestion that this whole thing might end up in federal court (as if federal courts just drop everything when pro sports can’t figure things out), you have the right to ask a question:

If McNally is innocent of any wrongdoing and Jastremski is innocent of any wrongdoing and Tom Brady is innocent, why were McNally and Jastremski suspended? Maybe it was just because of the text messages between the two that were supposed to be some kind of laugh riot, including the parts where we’re supposed to believe that they’re talking about weight loss when they talk about a “Deflator.”

McNally and Jastremski, pawns in this thing, pawns and collateral damage treated like nobodies, they aren’t talking. For now. Brady is talking only through his reps. The Patriots, through one of their attorneys, did plenty of talking in that rebuttal, which occasionally lapsed into unintended self-parody, especially when it tried to explain away those text messages between McNally and Jastremski as just, well, locker room hot air.

From the Patriots’ rebuttal, written by attorney Daniel Goldberg:

“Mr. Jastremski would sometimes work out and bulk up — he is a slender guy and his goal was to get to 200 pounds. Mr. McNally is a big fellow and had the opposite goal: to lose weight. ‘Deflate’ was a term they used to refer to losing weight.”

Well, there you are and here you are, with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell — people now act as if Goodell took the air out of those footballs — saying he will be the one hearing Brady’s appeal of his suspension and the players’ union demanding that Goodell step aside in favor of an independent arbitrator. In so doing, of course, the people running the players’ union in pro football look and sound and act like the biggest phonies around. They also make people who are sick of this story actually start rooting for Goodell in something.

Because if DeMaurice Smith and his union didn’t want Goodell to have this kind of power in matters such as this one, then Smith and his players shouldn’t have rolled over in collective bargaining and given it to him, shouldn’t have treated that power like just another bargaining chip.

Only now they want the whole world to act outraged because Goodell says he intends to exercise rights that the union handed over to him. Really?

Maybe Goodell will cross up everybody and step aside in this mess, as unlikely as that seems right now. Maybe he will really cross up everybody and, after hearing Touchdown Tom Brady’s appeal, he will knock Brady’s suspension down from four games to two, although it seems right now as if Brady might be willing to go all the way to Judge Joe Brown before he’ll accept any sanctions, or culpability, in what has turned into one of the great spit shows in NFL history, which is saying plenty.

For the time being, though, everybody digs in, establishing rhetorical positions if not tenable legal ones (and memo to the Patriots, by the way: Your lawyer against Ted Wells doesn’t look like much of a fair fight at this point). But for the last time, the problem for the Patriots isn’t Wells’ report on Brady or McNally or Jastremski or those footballs. The problem doesn’t change:

If you read the report, the only logical conclusion is that the air didn’t come out of those footballs because of the weather or atmospheric conditions — it’s that those footballs didn’t deflate themselves. And there is no logical reason for Jim McNally and John Jastremski to somehow manipulate footballs on the day of the AFC Championship Game between the Patriots and the Colts and make them meet anything other than the exact specifications of their quarterback.

From the start Brady has offered mostly nuanced answers when asked about what happened, has never come out and said he didn’t do it, he’s outraged that anybody thinks he would do it. He’s never said that McNally or Jastremski or one of them or both of them acted alone. Maybe he will eventually say something like that under oath, if this thing ever goes that far.

But McNally and Jastremski, facing more than an indefinite suspension from a football team, will have to do the same thing. Tell their stories under oath.

You’re supposed to believe, we’re all supposed to believe, that the issue here is a punishment that is far too harsh for this particular crime. This is still about the crime, and what has seemed like a weird, clumsy cover-up from the time Bob Kravitz of WTHR.com in Indianapolis reported that there was something funny going on with footballs in Foxborough one night in January.

People still want to talk about Ray Rice originally getting only two games for what happened in that elevator and Brady getting four, as if that is some kind of defense for Brady. Only it’s not. And let’s face it, Goodell admitted, in Macy’s window, that he was dead wrong about Rice.

There is also this side argument, all the way back to January, that what does any of this matter, because the Patriots clobbered the Colts, anyway. But as my friend, the writer Harlan Coben says, saying that you would have gotten an A+ for a test on which you cheated is no defense, either.

The union has every right to appeal, and pretty soon everybody will get the chance to tell their stories under oath. At that point we’ll all get to see what’s in those text messages and emails Brady didn’t want to release because, we’re told, he just wants to protect future players if they get involved in great, big, fat, overinflated misunderstandings like this.

We will eventually hear from Brady on DeflateGate, you bet. We are already hearing plenty from his union. But the guys we really want to hear from are Jim McNally and John Jastremski. They got thrown right under the bus when the Wells Report broke. It is worth wondering what they’re thinking about under there. What the atmospheric conditions are like there.
 

daydreamer41

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DeflateGate legal analysis: Neither the facts, nor the law, are on Tom Brady’s side in fight vs. NFL
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS Published: Friday, May 15, 2015, 2:22 PM Updated: Friday, May 15, 2015, 10:13 PM

By Tom Harvey

Harvard Law School professor Alan Dershowitz has been quoted as telling his students, “If the facts are your side, pound the facts into the table. If the law is on your side, pound the law into the table. If neither the facts nor the law are on your side, pound the table.”

It sure seems like Tom Brady, the New England Patriots and the NFL Players Association are just pounding the table, because neither the facts nor the law is on their side.

Brady, who some call the face of the NFL, seems intent on keeping his reputation as a clean-cut, All-American good guy intact.

However, he may want to have a little chat with Roger Clemens about this strategy, which seems to be “deny, deny, demand more proof.”

Clemens was identified as a steroid user by his personal trainer, Brian McNamee, according to the Mitchell Report. To protect his image, Clemens sued McNamee and demanded his good name be cleared. After he appeared before Congress and then faced a trial for perjury, I think the only one who made out was his attorney.

The New England quarterback has filed a grievance with respect to the NFL suspending him for four games for generally being aware of other New England personnel deflating the footballs just before last year’s playoff game with the Colts. Brady seems to be saying it didn’t happen and that he is innocent.

Now his “team” of lawyers and the union have filed a grievance, which will be heard by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell.

Presumably, Brady and the union are really waiting for Goodell to rule so that they can try a Hail Mary and run into federal court and have a judge decide the appropriate sanctions for Brady and the Patriots.

Be careful for what you wish for. It is hard to see how Brady gets his case heard by a federal judge without filing an affidavit saying he didn’t participate in DeflateGate. Worse, that affidavit would presumably be filed in a federal court in the Southern District of New York, where the U.S. Attorney has put away a billionaire and a lot of wall street guys for insider trading and fraud. My free advice is that Brady best tell the truth, whatever that may be.

As far as the Patriots go, they seem to believe their own PR spin. They have put up a website to dissect Ted Wells’ report on the DeflateGate investigation and are suggesting that modern science conclusively proves that there was no messing with Brady’s balls. I am not sure who drafted the schoolboy howler paper, but I think it did very little in terms of disproving the facts that Mr. Wells laid out in his report.

Indeed, Wells is not only highly respected in the Southern District by his brethren, but I submit the judiciary also would find the suggestion laughable that Wells did a “hit” job on the Patriots because the NFL paid him.

While I appreciate that the Patriots think the four-game suspension is out of line with the crime, they may have been better served to have stuck to the facts instead of pounding the table and essentially sticking their thumb in Goodell’s eye right before he decides on Brady's appeal.

Most interesting in this matter is the union’s apparent play to undue the clause in the collective bargaining agreement whereby the players agreed that the NFL commissioner would have the “final” say on punishment to be handed out in the event of a violation.

While we all can appreciate that it seems very unfair that the guy handing out the penalty is the same guy that decides whether the penalty is fair, the problem is that the union agreed to that very clause in the CBA.
 

Merlot

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Guys,

67% of all football fans agree with me. 75% of all AVID football fans agree with me.

Yet sales of Brady's jersey have doubled across the nation since the report. Convenient of you to fail to cite any link supporting this claim as I did for mine.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-england...g-results-in-espnabc-news-poll-on-deflategate

Do you think this kind of thing is limited to the Patriots, or do you think it happens with other NFL teams as well?
.................Patriots....Others....No/O
All fans........6............85.........9
Avid fans.....12...........80.........8

The Patriots went on to win the Super Bowl. Do you think that victory is tainted because of this incident, or not?
.................Tainted....Not Tainted..N/O
All fans........46..........49.............6
Avid fans......42.........58..............0

Balancing this incident and his career overall, would you support or oppose Brady being elected to the Football Hall of Fame at some point?
.................Support....Oppose.....N/O
All Fans........63..........28............9
Avid fans......73..........24............4

Do you think Brady is or is not a good role model for young people?
.................Good.......Not Good...N/O
All fans........52..........38...........10
Avid fans......61..........34............5

You left out a few things buddy.

49% to 58% say the Super Bowl is not tainted, 63% to 73% support Brady for the Hall of Fame, 52% to 61% say Brady is a good role model, and and 85% to 80% say other teams do the same thing (though I'd never take the "others do it" stuff as an excuse).

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-england...g-results-in-espnabc-news-poll-on-deflategate

Hillary is guilty in every scam she accused of because she believes she is above the law.

See, I knew if I put out the bait you'd charge at it like a rabid pit-bull. You've always been obsessed with chasing after scandals and once again you expose an attitude as a conspiracy monger. Credibility gone. Case closed.

One thing that conspiracy mongers here have passed over is Jim McNally. McNally is the guy who said "fuck Brady" and boasted about how he was going to make the footballs like watermelons or balloons. If ever there was a witness designed to turn on Brady now that his hate texts have been exposed to the world it would be Jim McNally. All he would need is the opportunity. After 7 hours in front of Ted Wells that didn't happen. Why not. He must know Brady and the team would be very unhappy about the texts. What did he have to lose, especially IF 67% of fans would support him. Yet, NOTHING!!! If he reverses himself later he'd then look like an opportunistic liar. So why not if Brady had said anything would McNally expose him. Could it be Brady was telling the truth? If even the Brady-hating McNally wouldn't expose him to please the fellow haters, then maybe Brady has been truthful all this time.

Cheers,

Merlot
 
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smuler

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Yet sales of Brady's jersey have doubled across the nation since the report

Id like to see where you dug this one up

Best Regards

Smuler
 

daydreamer41

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Id like to see where you dug this one up

Best Regards

Smuler

The Tom Shady Jerseys are double the sales of the Tom Brady Jerseys. That's what Merlot meant.
 

Merlot

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Id like to see where you dug this one up

Post 748

Guys,

http://nesn.com/2015/05/brett-favre-i-dont-think-by-any-stretch-that-tom-brady-cheated/

“I don’t think by any stretch, in my opinion, that Tom was cheating,” - Brett Favre


He's one of many current and former NFL players who back Brady from Kaepernick to Favre, but how does the public feel about the recent Well Report? Despite the manic obsession and loudness by the HATERS:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbad...dise-sales-double-since-suspension-announced/

Since the Wells Report was released on May 6, Brady was the NFL’s top-selling NFL player, outside of the two top draft picks Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota, according to Fanatics.com, the largest online retailer of officially licensed sports merchandise (Brady ranked sixth prior to the report). The Patriots are the second highest-selling NFL team behind the Cowboys, up from fourth before the report. Brady gear has spiked 100% since the suspension was announced Monday.

The top state for sales not surprisingly is Massachusetts, followed by Florida (thanks vercingentorix :D), California, Washington and Michigan. The best-selling items include his home and away jerseys, which both retail for $100, as well as a Brady No. 12 t-shirt, which sells for $32. Brady ranked third for total licensed sales during the 2014 season, according to the NFL Players Association’s sales list, behind Russell Wilson and Peyton Manning.


MANY cheers,

Merlot

You know the trouble with being a hater is you are so determined to believe what you say that you seek out only those who hate. Step out from the yes-boys and see what the world is thinking. :thumb:

I posted this a couple of days ago, but I'm happy to help you to try to keep up.

DEAL WITH IT. :cool:

Merlot
 
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daydreamer41

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Post 748



You know the trouble with being a hater is you are so determined to believe what you say that you seek out only those who hate. Step out from the yes-boys and see what the world is thinking. :thumb:

I posted this a couple of days ago, but I'm happy to help you to try to keep up.

DEAL WITH IT. :cool:

Merlot

Yeah, Merlot, just go on posting your mindless hater garbage. Anyone who disagrees with you has to be a hater, because there is no other logic behind your position other than the opposition hates you. Such nonsense.

I think Merlot is a hater. Hater of the truth and honesty.
 
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The Tom Shady Jerseys are double the sales of the Tom Brady Jerseys.

Tells me a great deal about your average Joe Blow in MA. Not that I had a different impression....LOL
 

daydreamer41

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Merlot

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Guys,

So New England Owner Robert Krafty says the Cheatriots will not fight the fines and sanctions that the NFL has imposed. "Deflagate was worth it since we wouldn't have gotten to the Super Bowl" :lol:

Of course, nonsense as expected.

BTW - thanks for posting only that part of the poll that agreed with you. Chicken. The rest shows that while fans surveyed think the Patriots did something, they don think it's as serious as the haters want to believe or they wouldn't be generally approving of Brady as a overall player, person, a role model or favoring him for the Hall of Fame.

KRAFT SPEECH:

I was in my car when the full short interview came over WEEI live. It's surprising and then it's not. The buzz yesterday from multiple sources was that when Kraft and Goodell met up a lot of back channel discussions got started and something serious was in the works. We know Kraft is really pissed off about the harshness of the penalties, and when he spoke you could hear him straining to make a conciliatory tone taking a step back from all the anger. Right away I feared exactly what was going to happen. Kraft said no way he would have done this a week ago, but now he would do it for the good of the other 31 teams and the image of the NFL.The speech may have been 4 to 5 minutes or less.

Looking at what this means, Kraft is still extremely pissed off about the historic penalties. No way he does this if he didn't know he was going to get something back in return. No way it's done also without Brady being in agreement. The general feeling was, and I agree, the team will take the big hit. That gives Goodell something to save face. In return Brady gets the penalty reduced to 1 game (maybe) or get a fine only. That way the Patriots get what they want, a chance to repeat as CHAMPIONS. Give Goodell what he wants first so it doesn't look like anyone pushed him around, then Goodell can look magnanimous in giving the Patriots what they want. I"m sure Kraft is not happy with this. Patriots fans were ready to go the whole distance and then some. Kraft walked off the podium refusing all questions. I'm sure he made a deal he and the team can live with while giving Goodell what he needs to save some respect and save his ass. That was the immediate consensus.

Cheers,

Merlot
 

smuler

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Let me go run and buy a jersey before they're sold out

Best Regards

Smuler
 

lgna69xxx

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In all seriousness, the boston patriots WERE found to be GUILTY of CHEATING to win a specific game. They SHOULD be stripped of the Super Bowl Win. What a joke the NFL has become. They (NFL) do not deserve the success they have because they are being run by a circus clown.
 

joelcairo

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In all seriousness, the boston patriots WERE found to be GUILTY of CHEATING to win a specific game. They SHOULD be stripped of the Super Bowl Win. What a joke the NFL has become. They (NFL) do not deserve the success they have because they are being run by a circus clown.

I guess football is different from baseball - where I'm sure NO ONE has EVER cheated. True greats like A-Rod, Barry B., Mark M., Jason G., Sammy S., Rafael P., Roger C., José C., and on and on ALL played TOTALLY by the rules.
 

smuler

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All those players you listed will all be viewed with an asterisk *

Tom Brady ?

Best Regards

Smuler
 

Merlot

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Guys,

In all seriousness...:lol:...but not with any class, integrity and most of all HONESTY!

As I just posted:

Was standing down Patriots' plan all along to force Roger Goodell to reduce Tom Brady's four-game ban?

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/was-st...duce-tom-brady-s-four-game-ban-203621883.html

New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft was never going to go full-on Al Davis. He wasn't going to sue the NFL, dragging himself and his franchise – and moreover, his iconic quarterback – into a courtroom. He wasn't going to wade deeper into the deflate-gate swamp, where winning anything would still be losing, if only by furthering an already absurd spectacle.

Whether Patriots fans want to believe it or not, a courtroom win was unlikely. Not unless Tom Brady fell into line with the team's fight, which very likely would have necessitated him turning over electronic communications. And even in that case, a settlement would have been the likeliest outcome, further dirtying the mud-splattered NFL brand, right up to the Windsor knots of both Kraft and commissioner Roger Goodell.

But rather than further stirring the ugliness, Kraft chose the most diplomatic path, standing down on Tuesday. Not happily, mind you. But likely with some leverage that may lessen the hit on Brady. And that's what this is all about now: saving Brady and the 2015 season.

That's likely what Kraft's acceptance of the league's punishment will have accomplished. At first glance, it makes Brady's case easier to fight. Now he doesn't have to worry about the team dovetailing a plausible defense of employees John Jastremski and Jim McNally with the quarterback's argument. Indeed, it frees Brady to rely on the same storyline he has trotted out all along: That he doesn't know anything about anything. That he didn't instruct Jastremski and McNally to deflate footballs, and it's on the league and Ted Wells to prove otherwise.

Considering Kraft took the Patriots through the cleanest exit, it's worth wondering whether Goodell will be the next to follow suit. It's not lost on the league's fraternity of owners that Kraft did them all a solid. Win or lose, he could have crippled Goodell's already maligned image by declaring open war on the commissioner. The owners don't want that. And they don't want to be at odds with Kraft, either. He's too important in the brotherhood, and choosing sides between a guy like that and the league office is a brutal balancing act.

This is why you saw a guy like Houston Texans owner Bob McNair coming out and essentially thanking Kraft for taking the punishment and moving on.

"He thinks about the league, and I think that's the smart thing to do, so I'm pleased," McNair said in a statement to the Boston Globe.

Not that it should be a surprise. Kraft could never be Al Davis. He's too politically savvy, too democratic and too much of a consensus builder to be a constant thorn of defiance. Until this recent donnybrook, he seemed above the back-and-forth nonsense. So taking the measured hit in exchange for something makes perfect sense.

Perhaps that was the plan all along. Why else would New England put up a point-by-point defense against Wells' report on a website? Why air out a battle plan like that if you intend to wage war in a courtroom? In hindsight, those moves look calculated – seeds of doubt planted into the pasture of public opinion, while still planning to minimize risk at a later date. When that site went up, Kraft's angles now appear to have been clear: kick dust back at Wells' report and satisfy the fan base; pump-fake a court battle; stand down from a nasty fight and hope the ceasefire could be leveraged to help Brady.

Only time will tell if Kraft's public jockeying will have an impact. But he's not waving the white flag for nothing in return, particularly when he is still losing a first- and fourth-round draft pick and $1 million of his own money. And he's not going away this gently after the league essentially delivered a facial double-slap during the penalty phase, publicly tying the deflate-gate penalties to Spygate, an incident that happened nearly 10 years ago.

In a way, Kraft has put the pressure back onto Goodell. The Patriots owner just took it on the chin and did what was best for the shield. But Brady's appeal of his four-game suspension is still hanging out there. And he is still important to the league's brand. Removing him from the field for a quarter of the season only drags on this saga into October, and nobody is interested in that.

So will Goodell hold up Brady's four-game suspension and risk exactly what Kraft spared the NFL – a protracted fight in court? Will he wade back into the ugliness? Or will he do what we've all believed would happen from the start, and trim the suspension to a more palatable two games?

We'll see in the coming days. Kraft has taken the first step and pulled New England out of the swamp. Now the Patriots owner is undoubtedly expecting Goodell and the NFL to do the same with his quarterback.

In all seriousness, the boston patriots WERE found to be GUILTY of CHEATING to win a specific game.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/mitchell-report-rocks-yankees-article-1.272141

Between 10 to 15 Yankees on their World Series teams since the 90s caught using steroids. Ricky Bones, Kevin Brown, Jose Canseco, Roger Clemens, Bobby Estelella, Jason Giambi, Jason Grimsley, Glenallen Hill, Darren Homes, David Justice, Chuck Knoblauch, David Naulty, Denny Neagle, Andy Perttitte, Gary Sheffield, Mike Stanton, Randy Vellarde, Ron Villone, Randall White, Todd Williams. GEEEEEZ, only 20 players. Now add A-Roid, Melky Cabrera,...and lets not forget Pine Tar Pineda. RIGHT, give back all the rings and trophies. :lol:

Cheers,

Merlot
 
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