Coronavirus

[The Nature Boy]

STN, absolutely the most reasonable and informative post in the entire thread.

Just out of curiosity Doc Holliday, I presume you want to ban all inbound travelers from Europe to Canada, also? Most countries in Europe, particularly Western Europe, have numbers worse than the U.S. If so, I do wonder what happens to Air Canada.

dude!! Again,[FONT=&quot]
WHERE THE FUCK ARE YOU GETTING YOUR #’s from!?!?![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Italy-175,925 confirmed cases, 23,227 deaths?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Spain-194,944 confirmed cases, 20,639 deaths?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]USA- 740,746 confirmed cases, 39,158 deaths?
UK- 120,067 confirmed cases, 16,060 deaths?


like I had to re read, the date your post was mentioned to see if it was an old post I was reading by accident?

like is it me? Did I read and interpret this post incorrectly are are you with the understanding still that Europe is still where all the cases are[/FONT]

 

[jalimon]

Good to read you back STN

The problem with this virus is full free herd immunity is not an option as we do not know if we are immune. South-Korea is studying 200 cases of re-infected people (who tested positive after being cured). China is also investigating same thing but who can trust anything with them.

And I completely agree with you we may live another depression era. Which could take a few years to go back to our normal way of living. The important thing is being alive. Dead would be harder to go back to normalcy.

South-Soudan has 12 million population. They have 4 ventilators in the whole country. Maybe early on we should have closed that shit-whole country, spray the virus over them and study how herd immunity works with this new virus?

 

[The Nature Boy]

TNB,

I was under the impression that countries like Italy and Spain have a smaller population than the U.S., so in my way of thinking their numbers are worse.


And if so, what do you do about airlines that rely heavily on international traffic? Do you subsidize them for a year, or at some point do you just nationalize one of them. That might be easier in Canada since there is only one major airline, but won’t that cause all the fares to be shy-high if and when things return to normal?

Whaaaaaaaaaaa?????

Dude Italy and Spain combined isn’t even @ half of total # of cases as USA and their deaths are maybe a little higher than USA?

it me or aren’t flights from Europe including Ireland and UK closed to USA?

Ok, I’m not gonna waste more time on your posts. Cause @ this point with all the nonsense your posting it seems deliberate. Gonna spend time doing something more productive and right now that includes dropping a likely 1kg deuce into the old American Standard in the loo

 

[jalimon]

TNB what Patron's trying to say is that European countries have the worst death rate per ratio of population. And that is correct. Worst country is actually Belgium. I knew they should have closed their french frie shop! Italy and Spain have 4 times more death per million then USA. But they were the first one hit by this.

And very important the USA may has not seen the worst just yet. So comparison right now should be taken with a grain of salt and wait on a little bit.

 

[cloudsurf]

Jal is right...but all this arguing isn`t doing anything to ease the situation or lessen the effect of this plague. Only time will tell . Too many unknowns and new surprises await us almost every day.
This virus is a perfect enemy of the human race. It attacks human victims under stealth and selectively, destroys the economy, and divides us. Attack,divide and conquer what an ingenious way to defeat your target and change the course of civilization.

 

[The Nature Boy]

Yea Spain and Italy’s daily new cases are on the decline and just number wise you can’t compare with USA’s daily new cases it churns out. Taking this, and the other numbers into account, including the ratio. I’d still be hard pressed to agree with patrons statement. None the less I did jump down your throat patron and I apologize.

With respect to the ban, I’m under the impression that the travel restrictions of going back and forth between Europe, uk and Ireland and USA are the same in effect with Canada and USA

about air canada, bail em out. We bailed out the banks in 2008 for greed, why is it hard to conceive bail out for the preservation of life?

With respect to Sauls comments, like him I also have stories from close friends but in Spain and USA. I guess we come from vastly different worlds, but they r saying they haven’t seen shit like this before. They r getting sick they r having to come up with weird living arrangements so they don’t infect their family

 

[cloudsurf]

If the US were to respect Canada`s request to not open the border between them then it would be hard to believe that Canada would open its border to any other country

 

[EagerBeaver]

Whats going to guide border reopening is economic pressures, not public health concerns. That's just the reality of the situation. No country is going to keep its borders and economy closed and shut down while it is circling the toilet financially (See STN post #2144 above). However border reopenings will occur with conditions, and it's not going to be an all or nothing free for all as some seem to think. Tourists may need to wear identifying badges and masks when in public, etc. Some level of tracking will be done. This will make it politically more acceptable to the native populations, while also bringing to local businesses much needed tourist revenues. Who else is going to buy any of the shit in any of those shops on St. Paul? Those stores will die if tourists are not let back in.

 

[cloudsurf]

Beav if I`m not wrong....the US/Canada border is not and has never been closed to commerce, only to non-essential travel..
Seeing escorts in Montreal or Toronto is not considered essential travel although it is a great benefit to the tourist industry.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Beav if I`m not wrong....the US/Canada border is not and has never been closed to commerce, only to non-essential travel..
Seeing escorts in Montreal or Toronto is not considered essential travel although it is a great benefit to the tourist industry.

See my post above- I am talking about in person commerce and not the escort business. Those numerous tourist shops on St. Paul are just one example. Are they even open right now? They will get killed if the border stays closed. And what about the Grey Line buses, Cloudsurf? I have been on those tours. There are a few Ontarians, but overwhelmingly its Asians and Americans. They did a national origin head count on my bus and not 1 single person was from Quebec. Yet they did the audio in French and English anyway, I guess by law.

And how about the money exchange stores downtown, like Calforex? What about those tourist dependent stores? Do they get even one ounce of your sympathy?

 

[jalimon]

It goes both way. No border for non essential travel has a HUGE impact. The tourist/hotel/restaurant cannot survive as is without American tourist. Of course since we will not travel either we should spend our vacation here in Quebec this summer but we wont make up for the loss. In fact pool and spa's are currently sold at record pace right now!

But the US will loose too if this stays on too long. Look at the impact of canadian snowbirds that goes down south (mainly Florida and Arizona) each year. We are talking about close to half a million people who spend overall about 10 billions. If the virus is still problematic next fall (and it should be..) this will be all lost as the coverage for insurance to go spend the winter in the US would be astronomical.

 

[westwoody]

the US/Canada border is not and has never been closed to commerce, only to non-essential travel

I work cargo at an airport: you are correct.
There are essential supplies going both ways. A lot of medicines go both ways and globally.
No country is completely independent no matter what they want to think.

Cargo volume is way up and passenger volume way down. Saw a plane last week that had just been converted from passenger to freight: that tells you where the volumes are.

The pro business lobby in the USA is pushing hard for return to normal, based on their great genius epidemiologist Trump.
If there is a righteous God he would smite everyone in the White House with the virus.

 

[westwoody]

Denmark and Norway are planning to follow Sweden last I heard.

No they are not. Sweden is not a success and the Swedes themselves are rethinking their strategy.
Funny how Conservatives bash Sweden for being so liberal but now they want to emulate Sweden for not having a lockdown.

 

[ShyMan]

the coverage for insurance to go spend the winter in the US would be astronomical.

I wonder if counties will require foreign tourists to show proof of travel medical insurance before entry would be permitted at airports and border crossings. Premiums would become more affordable as the pool of insureds expand, assuming the spread of Covid 19 can be "controlled" by government policies and people's prudent conduct.

A prudent "foreign" tourist should probably have travel medical insurance in the era of Covid 19.

 

[westwoody]

A lot of Americans will be devastated by the medical bill for Covid treatment. Especially if they need intensive care.

 

[ShyMan]

A lot of Americans will be devastated by the medical bill for Covid treatment.

Yep, lots of Americans who were Covid 19 and didn't have healthcare insurance would likely be forced into bankruptcy. I imagine one day in an ICU for a Covid 19 patient in most private hospitals in the States exceed US$100,000.

 

[CLOUD 500]

hose numerous tourist shops on St. Paul are just one example. Are they even open right now? They will get killed if the border stays closed.?

They are all closed. Old Montreal is a ghost town. St-Paul St is devoid of any cars. I went there some weeks ago. That place is always full of activity and the stores are always open even on statutory holidays. The lockdown will make them go bankrupt.

 

[EagerBeaver]

A lot of Americans will be devastated by the medical bill for Covid treatment. Especially if they need intensive care.

Yep, lots of Americans who were Covid 19 and didn't have healthcare insurance would likely be forced into bankruptcy. I imagine one day in an ICU for a Covid 19 patient in most private hospitals in the States exceed US$100,000.

Most have State Medicaid step up in the absence of private insurance. This has been discussed elsewhere. So if it's ER or emergency treatment, Medicaid pays a small portion of the bill and the rest is adjusted or written off. Patient pays nothing. The only eligibility requirement is that you be a US Citizen. Resident aliens who are not legal do not qualify. Most other poor locals do qualify.

ShyMan if you have a JD you should know this........

The State of Connecticut does retain lien rights for Medicaid payments, so that if you bring a lawsuit for personal injuries and the medical treatment of those injuries was paid for by the State, they have a lien on your lawsuit proceeds of the amount paid or 50% of your net proceeds, whichever is less. I deal with these issues every day in my job............there are all kinds of State liens.

Ultimately, the people who will pay for this type of treatment are the taxpayers.........not the patients.

 

[CLOUD 500]

I completely agree with STN's post #2144. This is not sustainable in the long term not to mention the removal of liberty and freedom. However I like to add that once the economy is reopened borders must remain shut and in long term borders should not be as open as it was in the past. If we look at history almost all diseases were spread by international travel. Over a hundred years ago it was by ship but now it is by airplane. We cannot stay locked up in our homes afraid for life.

 

[jalimon]

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/04/19/piers-morgan-advice-for-trump-rs-full-stelter-vpx.cnn

Very interesting interview. Piers Morgan is right on target.