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Ducon

Active Member
Oct 9, 2006
580
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This is mainly a problem in Canada, and specifically Montreal. When you hobby abroad, the only colour they see is green lol $$$
In Paris they always explicitly ask for ethnicity, and even give you an address across the street instead of the real one, so they can see you from their window before the appointment.
In my experience, there is a correlation between ethnicity and behaviour.
And even though that might be caused by other factors, escorts can't really adjust for those other factors. They have to make do with what little information they see.
 

Carmine Falcone

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2017
707
985
93
Even if an escort has had bad experience with White customers she cannot afford to blacklist White customers she will loose 90% of her revenue.
I've made this point in a roundabout way the gazillion times this topic has come up. Why is it only black men carrying the burden for other black men's bad behavior when I can bet my life some segment of all ethnicities also behave badly? This is all to say the "I don't see ALL black men because I had (a) bad experience(s) with..." rationale to be the shakiest one if you think about it enough. I'm sure the real reasons are myriad, including this rationale that generalizes every black guy.

But for the love of Beelzebub, ignore anyone who won't see you because of your race. The main entry fees in this business are money, good hygiene and behavior. If you possess all three and happen to be black, you still have options with many SPs where your race doesn't matter to them.
 

martell

Active Member
Apr 17, 2012
127
152
43
I've made this point in a roundabout way the gazillion times this topic has come up. Why is it only black men carrying the burden for other black men's bad behavior when I can bet my life some segment of all ethnicities also behave badly? This is all to say the "I don't see ALL black men because I had (a) bad experience(s) with..." rationale to be the shakiest one if you think about it enough. I'm sure the real reasons are myriad, including this rationale that generalizes every black guy.

But for the love of Beelzebub, ignore anyone who won't see you because of your race. The main entry fees in this business are money, good hygiene and behavior. If you possess all three and happen to be black, you still have options with many SPs where your race doesn't matter to them.
It's a matter of proportion. Low proportion of whites poses difficulties, much much higher proportion of black. SP have no choice to adapt and minimize risks. The ideal client for SP is mild mannered middle age married white men: low chance of STIs, of no payment, of agressiveness during sex, etc.
 

martell

Active Member
Apr 17, 2012
127
152
43
If that were true throughout the entire John spectrum, you would see more racial discrimination among higher priced independents and reputable agencies.

Security is different at a pawn shop in the Hood versus a Whole Market in suburbia. Blacks are treated the same at Whole Foods as Whites.

For some reason the Original Poster asked about the sex work equivalent of the pawn shop in the Hood.

What happens there is likely rational behavior (both at the true pawn shop in the Hood and on LeoList and 123), but it doesn’t have much correlation elsewhere, in my opinion.

This of course goes beyond sex work. The cops have a point when they say it is just simple math that a large portion of arrests, and stops, in the hood are of black men. The Left is incorrect when it argues that this statistic is Targeting. But we all have an obligation to not bring Hood Concepts, including LL and 123, and apply it elsewhere. Just like you are correct to assume the black guy entering Whole Foods is there to buy fancy vegetables.
Agency can screen or blacklist clients much better than a single SP, Agency also offer better protection to the SPs during meetings. "No black gent" is cheap way of screening for independent escorts who probably don't have any other protection than themselve.
 

Dartabo

New Member
Sep 12, 2018
9
1
3
If the problem is linked to security maybe we could use a whitelist of black customer approved by a provider. Im not dangerous but these days i dont even bother looking at indy's ads.
 

Eurasian

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2006
369
370
63
About a decade ago, I was in France for couple of months and had a white Quebecoise fuck buddy (met her there, didn't bring her from here), we were in an open thing... she was seeing others and so was I.

One of her fuck toy was a black dude she had met in a bar... I also saw him, he was the friend of the bartender and one of the nights, she decided to leave the bar with him.

She told me the guy was the most endowed in all her encounters, round 1 was somewhat fun. Round 2 was not, the guy kept going and going well after she was done... resulting in her getting dry and the act being painful, so she stopped him when it was hurting too much.

Moral of the story: she didn't like the overall experience
 
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Julia Sky

Supporting Member
Oct 29, 2016
1,927
3,144
113
Montreal
Every sp probably has a story of a black guy trying to aggressively negotiate for lower payment, while smelling awful. Same is true to a lesser extent for arabs.
Oh god I have news for you about white men... There are even white men on this very board with a reputation for their lack of hygiene and manners. Every sp has at least 10 stories of a white client being trash one way or another...

Agency can screen or blacklist clients much better than a single SP, Agency also offer better protection to the SPs during meetings. "No black gent" is cheap way of screening for independent escorts who probably don't have any other protection than themselve.

Agencies have access to the exact same blacklists that we use though... And from what I've heard they actually tend to do much less screening because they want money above all else. I have no problem believing the girls who told me this considering one of the agencies on this board basically told me to get fucked (pun unintended) when I reached out for a reference. Independants screen for their own safety, agency bookers have a much higher volume of appointments to set up and their own safety isn't on the line so they have no incentive to screen. They also realistically don't offer much protection - a violent client isn't going to casually let a girl call the booker/driver etc to come help her if anything happens. She'll have to defend herself and tell the agency what happened afterwards. I'm not saying all of this to diss agencies, I'm just speaking from what I've heard from former and current agency girls
 

CaptRenault

A poor corrupt official
Jun 29, 2003
2,171
1,103
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Casablanca

martell

Active Member
Apr 17, 2012
127
152
43
Oh god I have news for you about white men... There are even white men on this very board with a reputation for their lack of hygiene and manners. Every sp has at least 10 stories of a white client being trash one way or another...



Agencies have access to the exact same blacklists that we use though... And from what I've heard they actually tend to do much less screening because they want money above all else. I have no problem believing the girls who told me this considering one of the agencies on this board basically told me to get fucked (pun unintended) when I reached out for a reference. Independants screen for their own safety, agency bookers have a much higher volume of appointments to set up and their own safety isn't on the line so they have no incentive to screen. They also realistically don't offer much protection - a violent client isn't going to casually let a girl call the booker/driver etc to come help her if anything happens. She'll have to defend herself and tell the agency what happened afterwards. I'm not saying all of this to diss agencies, I'm just speaking from what I've heard from former and current agency girls
Agency also act as a deterrent, much less likely to cause trouble knowing there is a driver waiting for the girl's call. A lone girl is more vulnerable, easier to take advantage of. That doesn't mean an agency protection will work for all the violent clients.
You'll also be blacklisted for all the girls of the agency, not just one.

When I said independent I didn't just mean high end independent that we see on this forum, I meant the girls posting on LL who don't have the reputation or an established clientele that allow them to screen clients and ask for references: that would be too bad for their business.
 
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Julia Sky

Supporting Member
Oct 29, 2016
1,927
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Montreal
You'll also be blacklisted for all the girls of the agency, not just one.

When I said independent I didn't just mean high end independent that we see on this forum, I meant the girls posting on LL who don't have the reputation or an established clientele that allow them to screen clients and ask for references: that would be too bad for their business.

You'll be blacklisted for all the girls at the agency except the one who had an argument with the booker, or the new girl who has no experience, etc... I've heard stories of agencies sending new girls to known blacklisted clients because then they could get the money without risking being outed as predators (since the new girl doesn't know better). Of course this isn't the norm but it 100% does happen - remember that as a client you'll almost never get insight from what truly goes on behind the scenes.

When it comes to indies we use a blacklist that we share. Agencies also have access to it, I imagine. So when one of us blacklists a client he's blacklisted for everyone that uses the blacklist.

I wish everyone could screen, honestly. I remember when I couldn't afford to screen - even when I was already well reviewed - I had to take risks and had so many fake calls and bad clients. It sucked!!

CaptR : Mayne it does. Not the intent, I was just pointing out things I've been told and why the logic didn't exactly track. Why would an agency be better at screening than an independent? Arent we all human with brains lol? And if indies can't screen as well as agencies, why do we find posts on merb from established clients saying that all you need is a real phone number to book with most agencies? That's not "better at screening" imo, am I missing something? If agencies did thorough screening then surely we wouldn't constantly deal with having to explain why we screen as it would be the norm.
 

Anna Bijou

Well-Known Member
Sep 25, 2006
696
1,155
93
Montreal
It is usually due to bad previous experiences: more likely to be aggressive during sex, have issue with payments (try to negotiate), lack manners, lack hygiene etc. Every sp probably has a story of a black guy trying to aggressively negotiate for lower payment, while smelling awful. Same is true to a lesser extent for arabs. The reason SP give to not see these races sometime is just an excuse so they don't seem racist. It is the same more or less everywhere, not just MTL.


I think every SP has had far more of these experiences with white men.




Everyone forgets about the most important thing, sex workers can blacklist Black clients because the majority of clients are White. Even if an escort has had bad experience with White customers she cannot afford to blacklist White customers she will loose 90% of her revenue. Everyone made valid points, we cannot pinpoint as to a singular reason, each sw has her own position on that.

We've discussed this in the past. My clients are not 90% white.

Screening and refusing clients based on race, ethnicity, or skin tone has nothing to do with safety. Any provider who claims this is either lying or dumb.

Feel free to make a list but the most recent ones:

The 2 Quebec men who each murdered a sex worker in most recent years were white.
Robert Picton : White
Bruce McArthur : White

Paul Bernardo, while not as recent : White
 
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CLOUD 500

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2005
7,088
4,031
113
The irony in all of this is that there are way more men of all nationalities that will refuse to see a black girl than there are sp’s who will refuse to see black or east asian men.
You are 100% correct in this assessment. The worst ones being Asian and East Asian men who literally blacklist all Black women.
 
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martell

Active Member
Apr 17, 2012
127
152
43
You are 100% correct in this assessment. The worst ones being Asian and East Asian men who literally blacklist all Black women.
On the client side, it is not a matter of security but of taste. Personally, I just dont find them attractive at all, but I have tried in the past. I rarely see asian escort for the same reason.
 

CLOUD 500

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2005
7,088
4,031
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Not to say that many of the white men who seek WOC are not racist as well but simply express it by fetishizing instead rather than blacklisting. ;)
This is also 100% true. You can still be racist and have a fetish of WOC.
 
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CLOUD 500

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2005
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On the client side, it is not a matter of security but of taste. Personally, I just dont find them attractive at all, but I have tried in the past. I rarely see asian escort for the same reason.
I know, it was more a response to what Doc Holliday posted. I am the opposite of you, my preference is for WOC specifically Black girls. I am not too attracted to White or Asian girls.
 
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Anna Bijou

Well-Known Member
Sep 25, 2006
696
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So, racist if you do… and racist if you don’t! Sounds like woke logic :)


Awww, you're using a buzzword instead of thinking about a different point of view. Aren't you original!

It's not really that complicated if you understand the difference between attraction and fetishization. and are capable of self-reflection as to why you might be fetishizing if this is the case.

If by woke you mean being open to understanding there are other perspectives and experiences than mine and I will never fully understand because I exist in a white body, then I guess so. If it means I can listen and learn about the experiences of people who exist in non-white bodies, then sure. If it also means that I'm capable of realizing that there are many layers to everything and that the present is a product of the past, then that's accurate. If it also means I can do this with an open mind, get over myself, and not take everything as a personal attack, then yes.

Bonus: If it means I change how I view things after listening, then absolutely. If it means my default is empathy and not a need to reject and control, then I guess I'm 100% trying my best to be "woke". I personally just call it trying to be a good human but if you prefer woke, you can call it woke.

Btw we live in a racist system, so all of us, including myself, have some level of racism, whether internalized or not. The idea of being a good human is to try to understand that and change it.

I'll keep an open mind about you in spite of your use of the word 'woke' and failure to even try to give some thought to my comments before responding the way you did. Maybe you'll surprise me.
 
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