The Official LEAFS NATION Hockey thread

[lgna69xxx]

This is the 2nd full year since Burke came along, and the first year he took out the garbage, it takes time to completely re tool a team and an orginization from the head office to the players, which is still a few players away yet. As it sits today The Leafs sit one, yes, ONE (1) point out of a playoff spot with 64 games to go, and have 1-3 games in hand of those in front of them for the last playoff position, so its silly to even debate at this point about this, but knowing you and your motives, it is easily seen why your even in this thread, but stay, you might learn, scratch that, you WILL learn about the fantastic sport that is Hockey.

The Leafs whole group just needs time to jell and their record does not indicate how well they have played this season, they could easily have 3-6 more points right now but it is what it is and there are gonna be more growing pains along the way, but they have some good players who fight tooth and nail every night and will only get better with more time together.

Yes, but...how far are the Leafs from being a contending team? A little research tells me that he's under control for 5 years. Maybe they'll be a contending team for the last 2-3 years of his contract. Is that worth giving up 3 high draft picks? I think not. This is a rebuilding club, albeit one that's been rebuilding since the latter stages of the 17th century, and that's where the focus should be. Trade for Kessel? Sure...2-3 years from now when and if they're on the threshold of contending for a cup.

Somebody wrote complaining that Andre Dawson shouldn't have gotten the 1987 NL MVP because the Cubs "could have finished last without him."

Whether the Leafs "win" the trade or not is moot. The real question is has the trade made them into a contender? The answer to that is no? A wiser general manager would have kept the draft picks, developed the players, and made this trade or a similar one a few years down the road rather than waste 2-3 years of Kessel's prime.

 

[lgna69xxx]

Great points Doc, and sorry i didnt see this as i was writing mine when you sent this, but it is on topic, its about the Leafs right? if you mean you see a heated argument coming, not from me, i am just stating facts and opinons, like usual. It is a few who can not stand anything PRO LEAFS that try to stir the S**T in here, and as Mod 8 stated, it wont be tolerated for long as his patience is little these days. Keep it clean boys, or you might be in the penalty box compairing notes with Sean Avery.

I'm aware that this thread is once again going off-topic. But i feel i need to chime in. I'll admit that such a trade is & always was a gamble. As Iggy mentionned, in hockey, it takes years to find out if a trade was successful or not. The points Iggy made in regards to the rationale of the trade are valid onces. Kessel was 21 & already a proven scorer when Burke made the trade. Draft picks are an unknown entity. Some pan out, many don't.

Finally, is it worse than what NJ did when they traded & later re-signed Ilya Kovalchuk? I doubt it. Is it worse than what Mtl did when they traded fan-favorite Jaroslave Halak, possibly one of the top 3 goaltenders in the entire NHL, for two spades? It's debatable. Halak not only is a great goalie who's barely 26, but he singlehandly led the habs to the playoffs, then through the playoffs & was only one series away from the Stanley Cup final. He made millions for the team's owners. The thanks he got? They shipped out to St-Louis for....as i mentionned....two spades. Wasn't he at least worth a first-round pick? Once again...it's debatable.

Gentlemen, please stay on topic or move your arguements to the official NHL thread.

 

[Special K]

Keep it clean boys, or you might be in the penalty box compairing notes with Sean Avery.

You might want to tell Rumples who Sean Avery is. Lol.

 

[lgna69xxx]

bwhahahaahahaha,,,,, good point, thanks (just google his name Rumples)

See, he is learning already!

You might want to tell Rumples who Sean Avery is. Lol.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

You might want to tell Rumples who Sean Avery is. Lol.

Shit, don't confuse me. He plays goalie for Hartford, no?

Doc, I'm not questioning the trade for Kessel or saying he gave up too much or anything like that. I'm questioning the timing of the trade. In any sport, doesn't matter which, that's the kind of trade you make when you're on the edge of contention, not at the beginning of a rebuilding phase. He made the trade two years too early. He should have kept the draft picks, developed the players, and when the team had improved enough to become a contender, then pull the trigger. (By the way, it often takes years in any sport to know who came out on top. Again, it's the timing that was clearly wrong.)

Iggy seems happy to just make the playoffs. Maybe that's the Toronto way, but I'd want my team to build for a Cup not the bottom rung of the playoffs.

Let me also note, iggy, that if you know as little about hockey as you do about baseball, I'm in pretty good company here.

 

[lgna69xxx]

Sorry rumps, but age doesnt mean squat to knowing more about a game, you can post your silly stats all you want in baseball, but it does not mean you actually have knowledge about the game, but stick around here you might actually learn something about the great game of hockey, pal.

Am i happy with "just" making the playoffs? You bet you old irish A** (as you said in another thread) i am, it is a start and the first step to being a Champion, gotta start somewhere right? Step by Step, and that obviously is the first step, duh. lol (btw the red sox might wanna be happy with "at least" making the playoffs, afterall it is better than where they ended up this past season, now isnt it?)

As far as Burke and when he made the trade, like i said it takes years, so stop trying to stir the crap like you clearly are in this thread, take it to the other hockey threads, but you are clueless about how hockey works compared to baseball, Burke thought the players he inherited could compete with the addition of Kessel, well, we all saw what happened to those players, there long gone and now he is building around Kessel and it takes time to get the Big Centreman that every team likes to have on its top line, but maybe just maybe, Kadri will become the jewel that Kessel needs to be a 50 goal scorer he is capable of being, even is Kadri is not 6-3 225lbs, he is lightning quick with great hands and vision, that works also in todays game

Now, i am asking you nicely and to please take your S**T Stirring to the other hockey thread as i will not get into this with you here and ruin this thread, which is im sure your intent anyways, but out of respect for the Mods, im done playing your game, go ahead and have the last word, the floor is yours, or be a man and respect the rules and continue this debate in the NHL SEASON THREAD. Capiche?????

PS. does this mean your gonna be a no show at the Bell Centre tonight? i dont care if you come per say, but was looking forward to the free beer!

Shit, don't confuse me. He plays goalie for Hartford, no?

Doc, I'm not questioning the trade for Kessel or saying he gave up too much or anything like that. I'm questioning the timing of the trade. In any sport, doesn't matter which, that's the kind of trade you make when you're on the edge of contention, not at the beginning of a rebuilding phase. He made the trade two years too early. He should have kept the draft picks, developed the players, and when the team had improved enough to become a contender, then pull the trigger. (By the way, it often takes years in any sport to know who came out on top. Again, it's the timing that was clearly wrong.)

Iggy seems happy to just make the playoffs. Maybe that's the Toronto way, but I'd want my team to build for a Cup not the bottom rung of the playoffs.

Let me also note, iggy, that if you know as little about hockey as you do about baseball, I'm in pretty good company here.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Am i happy with "just" making the playoffs? You bet you old irish A** (as you said in another thread) i am, it is a start and the first step to being a Champion, gotta start somewhere right? Step by Step, and that obviously is the first step, duh. lol (btw the red sox might wanna be happy with "at least" making the playoffs, afterall it is better than where they ended up this past season, now isnt it?)

God, you just live to be wrong, don't you, Iggy. The first step to a championship is NOT simply making the playoffs. The first step is building a solid core and then filling in the final pieces with guys like Kessel. Yes, you gotta start somewhere and that somewhere is not to toss all you eggs in one high priced basket only to see him leave when you finally have a core around him.

I'm not bashing the Leafs here. I have no problem with them winning a championship, in fact, I like when clubs that haven't won in a long time win. I was happy to see the Giants win the World Series. I'm just saying that Burke went for the big banana 2-3 years to early and that he's likely to pay for it.

 

[joelcairo]

Now since this Thread is about the LEAFS and trying to keep the spirit alive SK.
Here's something to read about which is very close in our case for Mtrl.

http://www.nhlsnipers.com/best-and-worst-nhl-fans-ranked/


You can see that Toronto's fan rank 3rd overall in the best fans.
Now Boston is what 16th ? mmm. so much for having a good fan base.

BTW. we rank as no. 1

Thanks for the article. It's a year old and I certainly don't agree with everything (in fact, I don't even agree with the criteria used to establish the rankings) but it is interesting reading. I guess credit must be given to Leaf fans for their "loyalty" (?) since as the opening sentence on TO says: "The fans of Toronto have been waiting a long time for something to really cheer about."

Kind of unfair that Hockeytown fans are only ranked 13th - this stat really punishes them for 1) having the consistently best team in hockey for the last two decades and 2) being in a city DEVASTATED by the economic downturn. (Also - wink! - the article doesn't take into account the BEST fans of all: namely those Detroit fans living in another city!)

Loved the part in the Boston article that referred to the infamous Lucic-Komisarek dance!

 

[joelcairo]

This is a rebuilding club, albeit one that's been rebuilding since the latter stages of the 17th century.

You should post more often in the hockey threads Rumples. This is one of the greatest sentences I've ever seen.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Hockey is different than baseball and any other sport. You first have to make it to the big show, which is the Stanley Cup playoffs. Once you're in, it's now a grueling two months of intense, high-paced hockey to make it to the Stanley Cup final. You have to play 3 best-of-seven series in order to get there. As we've seen in past years, a lot of it has to do with luck. A few years ago, Edmonton barely snuck into the playoffs & nearly won the Cup, losing to Carolina in the final. Last year, Philadelphia snuck into the playoffs on a shootout goal in their final regular season game & went all the way to the Cup, coming just a whisker of winning it.

Rarely do teams that 'build for the championship' ever make it there. Last season, that's exactly what New Jersey did. They sold their future in order to obtain Ilya Kovalchuk. The move proved to be a bust since New Jersey got kicked out of the playoffs in the first round. The difference between hockey & other professional sports is that huge upsets are the norm in hockey.

You just never know how much a team can drastically improve from one year to the next, or vice-versa, as we've been seeing this year.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Thanks for that explanation, Doc. At least one old fart knows what he's talking about. Hope you're sitting with iggy tonight so you can explain some of the nuances of the game to him.

 

[joelcairo]

Richard Peddie the CEO of the Leafs is impressed with the Leafs.

Full marks to Brian Burke for his honest and accurate appraisal of his performance.

 

[joelcairo]

Thanks for that explanation, Doc. At least one old fart knows what he's talking about. Hope you're sitting with iggy tonight so you can explain some of the nuances of the game to him.

If Doc succeeds I will personally nominate him as Educator of the Year.

 

[lgna69xxx]

Well said Amigo, well said indeed!... what you posted is known by people who actually follow hockey, like cairo, jhfan, and even SK..... geez, now rumples has learnt 2 things today. He will be the next Don Cherry before we are all done with him!

Hockey is different than baseball and any other sport. You first have to make it to the big show, which is the Stanley Cup playoffs. Once you're in, it's now a grueling two months of intense, high-paced hockey to make it to the Stanley Cup final. You have to play 3 best-of-seven series in order to get there. As we've seen in past years, a lot of it has to do with luck. A few years ago, Edmonton barely snuck into the playoffs & nearly won the Cup, losing to Carolina in the final. Last year, Philadelphia snuck into the playoffs on a shootout goal in their final regular season game & went all the way to the Cup, coming just a whisker of winning it.

Rarely do teams that 'build for the championship' ever make it there. Last season, that's exactly what New Jersey did. They sold their future in order to obtain Ilya Kovalchuk. The move proved to be a bust since New Jersey got kicked out of the playoffs in the first round. The difference between hockey & other professional sports is that huge upsets are the norm in hockey.

You just never know how much a team can drastically improve from one year to the next, or vice-versa, as we've been seeing this year.

 

[joelcairo]

Well said Amigo, well said indeed!... what you posted is known by people who actually follow hockey, like cairo, jhfan, and even SK!

Gee lg, I think that's the nicest thing you've ever said about me!

 

[lgna69xxx]

i think your right! ... ok off to the game, Good luck Leafs, good luck Habs (did i say that?) (shaking head) i just hope its a great game overall... one game, not the end of the world to win or lose but GO LEAFS GO!

play nice in here fellas

Gee lg, I think that's the nicest thing you've ever said about me!

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

i think your right! ... ok off to the game, Good luck Leafs, good luck Habs (did i say that?) (shaking head) i just hope its a great game overall... one game, not the end of the world to win or lose but GO LEAFS GO!

Omigod!! I just became a Habs fan. Shit. Who's their goalie?

 

[Special K]

Ok so now I'm correct ?

In one aspect, don't take my agreement out of context JH! Because we're saturated with amazing teams in Boston the Bruins get the least of the accolades. That what you are correct about. Because you have ONLY ONE TEAM WORTH SEEING in Montreal is why that "scientific poll" revealed the Habs to have the best fans...which I still call complete bullshit because they're a bunch of whiny pussies 99% of the time!

 

[gohabsgo]

Do the Leafs make the playoffs ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73C0runl3c4&feature=related

nice assist by Komi on Cammi's goal, btw

 

[Special K]

Who the hell are the Alouettes? What is that, tiddlywinks or something? Never heard of 'em. I don't have the stats on the Celts and Pats off the top of my head but it's quite often for the Pats and maybe 5 out of 10 years for the Celts. I just googled the name Alouette and all that came up in the first page was something about childrens songs, cheese, sheep dogs and food so not sure what you're getting at using a kiddies song as a reference in this thread. Lol.

Lastly, wasn't Carey Price one of those whiny pussy babies who couldn't stand the heat last year when he gave up during a game and fingered the fans, or was it the year before, I can't recall the exact specifics but it's no surprise really that now he's the savior to those same bandwagon fans. Lol.

Ok...allow me to edit this. I went to the 3rd page of Google before coming up with what I think you're referring to JH, you mean these guys, the CFL team? Hahahahahahahahah...CFL!!!! That's like the juniors in hockey compared to the NFL.