Climate change

[jalimon]

C. B. It's the exact same for medical scientist. They argue on many things and have a hard time reaching consensus. Some try method that are shunned by their peers and colleagues.

Yet strangely once you are hit with cancer or other shitty sickness you become a believer... It seems it takes imminent death to start to listen to scientist. Strange isn't' it?

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

Ask the Australian citizens if climate change is real. Their continent and koala bears have been fried to a crisp with wildfires, with the resulting smog affecting large parts of the world
Aak California vineyard owners about climate change, as their growing seasons get warmer and force them to alter their winemaking processes. That is, if their vineyards haven't been burnt to the ground by ever worsening wildfire seasons.
Just thought I'd check in here again, and yes you guys are still in the dark lol

Try to keep up with the news, it was proven the the Australian fires were started by people, fuck all to do with climate change.

In the dark no, gullible no, do some of our own thinking yes.

 

[jalimon]

Try to keep up with the news, it was proven the the Australian fires were started by people, fuck all to do with climate change.

Come on STN we all know climate change wont start fires!! You know better!

Each year Australia has wildfires. But never so soon in the season and never to such extend. Yes climate changes played it's role in making it worst. As simple as that.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/climate-and-people/australia-burning-bushfires-bad/

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

^^^^^^ There is proof that the majority were started by people, how can you cling to the climate change crap
Yes the climate is changing, it always has and always will, we can not alter that. May as well blame climate change on Trump.... I can feel a trigger happening.

 

[GMA]

STN, it doesn't matter how the fires started, because that doesn't change. But the temperature in Australia is 42-43 degrees C; once these fires start, the firefighter can no longer control them. The size and carnage of this year's fires are shockingly unprecedented
12.35 million acres of land thus far, 24 fatalities; 1 billion animals perished as of January 7

 

[jalimon]

We cannot alter climate change but we could greatly lower it's impact. But most people in developed countries are way too selfish to do so as the changes are life impacting.

So we are just delaying the changes to future generation who will have to deal with it.

 

[GMA]

Well, Jalimon, I would say we can stop climate change from progressing beyond what temperature rises are already baked into the future. But if we continue to do nothing, then the world as we know it will become increasingly uninhabitable, which is already starting to occur in some areas near the equator and in the Middle East.

Temperatures in Iran in 2019 reached 53.1 degrees C. Heat Indexes at that temperature are in the Extreme Danger category if the humidity exceeds only 40%, where the Heat Index is 130 degrees.

Heat indexes have reached 165 degree F, 73.9 degree C. The world's temperatures in July 2019 was the hottest month on record. 2019 was the second hottest year ever recorded, just behind 2016.

 

[Fradi]

STN, it doesn't matter how the fires started, because that doesn't change. But the temperature in Australia is 42-43 degrees C; once these fires start, the firefighter can no longer control them. The size and carnage of this year's fires are shockingly unprecedented
12.35 million acres of land thus far, 24 fatalities; 1 billion animals perished as of January 7

What a load of crap.
It doesn’t matter how fires started, yes it does it is almost always started by careless idiots who should have known better.

There is always going to be a year that is unprecedented that is how all records get broken, whether that is fires, hurricanes, or sports records or anything. It would be unprecedented if they went a year or two without any fires.
If you read anything about Australia you would know this happens all the time, I know I grew up there.

As STN said climate is changing it always has, do we contribute to it, with the billions of people living on this earth of course we do.
Will the carbon tax and the measures the western world can take stop it, not a chance it is a drop in the bucket compared to the garbage that China, India and Russia spew into the atmosphere on a daily basis and even if they were cooperative there is no real proof if it would have an impact.

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

We cannot alter climate change but we could greatly lower it's impact.

Greatly lower? Can you please show some evidence of us being able to greatly lower the impact. That is just a bunch of false shit.

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

Well, Jalimon, I would say we can stop climate change from progressing beyond what temperature rises are already baked into the future. But if we continue to do nothing, then the world as we know it will become increasingly uninhabitable

Do you not follow any news? Every year we are making strides in reducing emissions and here you are saying we continue to do nothing. There must be some PCP mixed with your weed or something for you to even post false shit like that.

 

[GMA]

Greatly lower? Can you please show some evidence of us being able to greatly lower the impact. That is just a bunch of false shit.

Haha I love these homework assignments you give me that never change your mind anyway.
We've been through all this before on this thread.
When i have time I Might look up the recommendations on carbon emissions reductions necessary to prevent the future temperature from rising above a certain level. If it rises above that level, then catastrophic changes will occur.
Look around you, the evidence is everywhere:
Wildfire seasons are like sci-fi movies in Australia, California; States like Alaska, Washington, and Oregon are dealing with wildfires that they have little prior experience nor knowledge how to combat.
Venice is chronically flooding, and its population fleeing piecemeal.
The Great Barrier Reef is almost dead
The huge kelp forests in Tanzania are almost dead too
Glaciers around the world are disappearing
Scientists give us another 10-12 years or so to stop the carbon emissions. If we do that, then the climate change will likely stabilize.
But carbon emissions worldwide hit a record in 2019, breaking the previous record set in 2018.
Aside from the world's increasing population, we are hitting certain tipping points that are accelerating carbon emissions. For example, melting permafrost is releasing previously frozen CO2. And the rampant wildfires do the same.
We need a worldwide coordinated effort to deal with this crisis, and the US is traditionally the world's leader in these situations. But we have a corrupt clown as POTUS, so this next election will actually determine the future of the world in many ways.
You can sit back in cold Montreal, STN, and laugh away at climate change because you are insulated from its effects. But coastal and island cities and nations are scared shitless, as are nations where water is becoming more scarce and temperatures unbearable.
BTW, you want evience? Be a student and google this stuff. Try to understand the world around you, and think about other people's welfare.

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

^^^^^^ Focus, read what I posted. I did not ask about climate change the question was " we can greatly lower the impact ". There is no proof of this, just a theory. I questioned Jaliman's " greatly lower the impact, not that the climate is changing. Thanks for your moot reply though as it was not the answer to the question. I have never doubted climate change, just think people who think Canada can alter it are morons.
Instead of replying to Jsliman's post how about a reply to yours about us continuing to do nothing, do some Google searches as you love to do and see that some are in fact doing something, actually many are.

 

[C.B. Brown]

Haha I love these homework assignments you give me that never change your mind anyway.
.

Seriously has anyone ever me a more arrogant person with a condescending attitude who know it all .
jalimon before you defend your buddie ,
you not only seem like a descent guy
but shown flexabality and have been able to control your self in arguments
hd nto he come forth with such arrogance i would have not replied
with his superior attitude.
my opinion and
i admit i coluld be wrong
others realize as well
myself and others dont agree with mr know it all
its not so much what he says as the way he says it and talks down to everyone like he is superior.
MY position is its a big world and is beeing going on for millions of years
man is the worst thing which has happened to it
but it will long live past us and another cycle will begin if this happens
we will probably destroy ourselves 1 way or another but climate is out of our control feel free to quote me so the professeur can read it seems he has opted to not read a numbe of us who have challenged his infinite wisdom
very adult of him from crying to the mods we were bullies to 180 degreee then threatening 3 of us himself (mentally unstable)didn't work( a real democrat to the letter) so last childish resort was to block us

 

[GMA]

^^^^^^ Focus, read what I posted. I did not ask about climate change the question was " we can greatly lower the impact ". There is no proof of this, just a theory. I questioned Jaliman's " greatly lower the impact, not that the climate is changing. Thanks for your moot reply though as it was not the answer to the question. I have never doubted climate change, just think people who think Canada can alter it are morons.
Instead of replying to Jsliman's post how about a reply to yours about us continuing to do nothing, do some Google searches as you love to do and see that some are in fact doing something, actually many are.

Well, I don't think anyone is a moron for trying to help give the world a better future.
When I said "if we continue to do nothing", I was speaking figuratively, but more specifically if governments like the US literally deny climate change and do nothing, it gives license to all the other governments of large nations to sit on their hands and just give lip service.
It's sort of like political elections. Some people say, Oh my single vote won't change the election outcome. Well if everyone took that approach, then they can't complain when someone they don't like wins the election, So no, Canada alone cannot change the future. But if every nation in the world takes that approach, then we are doomed to failure.
That's why Trump must be defeated this November, so a Democrat administration can quickly change US policy and start leading the international effort to combat this crisis.
And why you feel it's better to give up and do nothing and wait for earth to turn to hell, how is that better than trying to save the planet for our children? Makes no sense

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

^^^^^ Again you do not understand. I have never said give up, ever, I realize that companies are working on it, billions is being spent on it even by the big oil companies. Something like this takes time, there are no proven results just theories. My biggest piss off is a carbon tax, what a fucking useless money grab or Trudeau buying carbon credits from Butts's best friend for huge amounts, who the fuck will that do anything.
This climate change is a scam as the climate has always changed at various rates before industrial man, so many doomsday predictions that have come and gone. Twatwaffles like Gore making millions off his useless speeches and books. People like Greta who have zero input and no solution but just a fucking big mouth.
We are getting better, it just takes time.

 

[Bred Sob]

I wonder, are there any experts reading this thread who could possibly update us on the current state of the climate science?

As I mentioned earlier, in my own work I did at some point get interested in the climate models that were available at the time (the achievements were rather pathetic, to tell the truth), but only tangentially. I tried from time to time to follow the later developments, but not too closely or comprehensively. I believe my knowledge of the subject is sufficient to catch an obvious bullshitter in his bullshit, but no way I could consider myself an expert.

I could still try to sum up my understanding of where the science currently stands, but of course it would be great to hear from a real professional.

 

[TheJames101]

Reading this thread, one gets the sense there are many experts here Bred

 

[Bred Sob]

Well, let the record show that I tried to get serious for once. Obviously, I haven't succeeded in that endeavor.

 

[MattMiller]

So Sol Tee Nutz hates the carbon tax. It's not clear to me why [Is it just because its a policy pushed by the Trudeau government?]. With his post # 340 he seems to be all over the place. He tells us that "climate change is a scam as the climate has always changed at various rates before [the] industrial" era. But then he also tells us that "companies are working on it" [it being climate change]. But if climate change is not happening, if instead we are just experiencing trendless random temperature fluctuations, then what are companies working on?

If one accepts that climate change is happening, and that it is caused by the emission of various gases, chief among them CO2, then a revenue-neutral carbon tax (like pushed by the Trudeau government) is an essential but insufficient policy. Who says so? For instance, 27 Nobel laureates in economics says so. Also, several top-flight conservative economists say so: for instance, Greg Mankiw, Martin Feldstein, Edward Lazear, Michael Boskin - each of them a former Chair of the US Council of Economic Advisers under a Republican president.
See here: https://clcouncil.org/economists-statement/

Also the International Monetary Fund [IMF] advocates for using fiscal policy to fight climate change:
IMF Fiscal Monitor, October 2019
https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/FM/Issues/2019/09/12/fiscal-monitor-october-2019
“Carbon taxes levied on the supply of fossil fuels in proportion to their carbon content are the most powerful and efficient . . . of the various mitigation strategies to reduce fossil fuel CO2 emissions,” says the report, “because they allow firms and households to find the lowest-cost ways of reducing energy use and shifting toward cleaner alternatives.”


A carbon tax is the fairest, most effective, most efficient single policy tool in the fight for a habitable climate. The Carbon Tax Center serves as a resource for people supportive of or curious about carbon taxes.
https://www.carbontax.org/

Gilbert E. Metcalf: Carbon tax myths
https://blog.oup.com/2018/12/carbon-tax-myths/
[blogpost by an US economist who wrote a whole book about the carbon tax: https://www.amazon.com/Paying-Pollution-Carbon-Good-America/dp/019069419X; a book that was endorsed by prominent US conservative economists Greg Mankiw and Douglas Holtz-Eakin; Mankiw was Chair of the US Council of Economic Advisers in the GW Bush administration; Holtz-Eakin was Director of the Congressional Budget Office when GW Bush was president, and chief economic policy adviser to Senator John McCain's 2008 presidential campaign]


The Economist: The climate issue. Sept.19, 2019
Editorial. https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/09/19/the-climate-issue
Briefing on climate change.
https://www.economist.com/briefing/2019/09/21/the-past-present-and-future-of-climate-change

The OECD agrees with the IMF:
Taxing Energy Use 2019: Using Taxes for Climate Action, Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development [OECD], Paris. https://doi.org/10.1787/058ca239-en

Why trust imperfect climate science?
Naomi Oreskes (and others): Why Trust Science? Princeton University Press, 2019
https://www.amazon.com/Trust-Science-University-Center-Values/dp/069117900X/

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

^^^^ The poor get a tax rebate ( they produce very little GHG's compared to the wealthy ) and the rich do not give a fuck. How will a tax alter climate change? Without your links and in your own words, perhaps by buying carbon credits.


Quick search

Let’s start at the beginning. Much is being made of the fact that the federal carbon tax will be revenue neutral (it won’t actually be fully revenue neutral, only 90 per cent will be rebated). And indeed, economic theory states that a carbon tax should indeed be revenue neutral. But there’s a caveat here—to offset the harm the carbon tax does to the economy, the tax revenues must be used to reduce existing distortionary taxes such as the personal income tax or the corporate income tax. Rebating the revenues as lump sum rebates eliminates the opportunity to offset the harm of the tax by reducing other distortionary taxes.

Another explicit assumption about optimal carbon taxation is that it must be emplaced in lieu of regulations—not layered on top of them. Layering a carbon tax on top of regulations makes the regulations even more economically damaging. But the Trudeau government shows no indication that it’s ready to make that trade.

In fact, the government plans to implement a “Clean Fuel Standard” that “would incent the use of a broad range of low carbon fuels, energy sources and technologies, such as electricity, hydrogen, and renewable fuels, including renewable natural gas. It would establish lifecycle carbon intensity requirements separately for liquid, gaseous and solid fuels, and would go beyond transportation fuels to include those used in industry and buildings.”

That does not sound much like a swap of a carbon tax for regulations.