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Coronavirus

CaptRenault

A poor corrupt official
Jun 29, 2003
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This article from the Los Angeles Times does not give me a lot of confidence about the world's ability to prevent future virus outbreaks. As long as the Chinese Communist Party refuses to control the source of such outbreaks, we are in danger. Maybe it's time for the rest of the world to put some real pressure on China to put an end to the conditions and practices that have led to these outbreaks several times in recent decades.

Why China’s wildlife ban is not enough to stop another virus outbreak

By ALICE SUCHINA CORRESPONDENT
latimes.com
APRIL 2, 2020

SHANGHAI

When SARS hit the world in 2003, China went after the civet.

The weasel-like animal, eaten as a delicacy in southern China, was suspected of being an intermediary host of the virus that infected 8,000 people and killed 800 in China and across the world. Tens of thousands of civets were drowned or electrocuted.
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The weasel-like animal, eaten as a delicacy in southern China, was suspected of being an intermediary host of the virus that infected 8,000 people and killed 800 in China and across the world. Tens of thousands of civets were drowned or electrocuted.

China also banned the hunting, trading and consumption of wildlife. But that restriction was lifted three months later. The National Forestry and Grassland Administration announced that 54 types of wildlife, civets included, could be consumed and sold, as long as they were raised on farms.

By 2019, the wildlife trade was thriving. In November, the forestry administration republished a news report from Jiangxi province on its website, boasting that it had helped 1,700 people in one town alone to take up civet breeding and “embark on the road to riches.”

Stories of success read like fables: “The cold winter wind was screaming on Nov. 27, but Zhang Zhilin, a poor farmer in Shaping town of Wanan county had a ‘warm sun’ in his heart. The 33 civet cats he bred would come out for sale next year, bringing in $7,000 of income,” the report read.

Two months later, another coronavirus — SARS-CoV-2, as it is officially called — was sweeping the nation. The disease it causes, COVID-19, would soon devastate the world, infecting more than a million people and killing more than 52,000 so far.

A bat vendor on Sulawesi island in Indonesia. Bats are suspected to have been a source of the new coronavirus that swept China and spread worldwide.

Once again, China banned wildlife trade and consumption, first temporarily, then upgrading to a permanent ban on Feb. 24 — though it has not yet been enshrined in the Wildlife Protection Law. Since then, authorities have shut down nearly 20,000 farms raising peacocks, porcupines, ostriches and other animals.

Conservation groups lauded the ban as a major step forward, but not enough to stop another outbreak: The ban covers only land animals. It punishes consumers but does not tackle corrupt ties among government officials, corporate interests and “breeders” who use permits as a cover for illegal trade.

And it leaves a glaring loophole by allowing continued use of wildlife for traditional Chinese medicine, including animal-based remedies that national health authorities are now prescribing as treatment for the coronavirus. Current law permits the farming of bats, pangolins and bears to make medicine from their feces, scales and bile, which drives the demand for wildlife and raises the risk of another pandemic.

For years, Chinese and international conservation groups have been calling for a change in China’s approach to wildlife “protection,” which views wild animals as essentially a commodity and sanctions farming and breeding for human consumption and corporate profit.

It is a $73-billion industry that employs more than 14 million people, according to a 2017 industry report by the Chinese Academy of Engineering. The government has promoted its growth, especially in underdeveloped rural areas, in recent years.

As part of a Communist Party-led initiative to eliminate poverty in China, Wanan county has invested more than $1.3 million in infrastructure for civet breeding and given more than $28,000 in subsidies to farmers who pivoted into the wildlife business, according to the Jiangxi report.

“Wildlife breeding and utilization is a rapidly developing industry in recent years. Our province should seize the opportunity,” said Huang Xiaofeng, director of wild animal and plant protection at Jiangxi province’s Forestry Academy, in the report.

Under China’s Wildlife Protection Law, enacted in 1989 and most recently amended in 2018, wild animals, including endangered species, can be farmed and traded by purveyors with government permits, usually granted by provincial authorities...

...Changing China’s wildlife industry would require not only public education and cultural shifts, but also a confrontation with corporate interests and official corruption.

The China Wildlife Conservation Assn., or CWCA, a nongovernmental organization with many members who are former national forestry administration officials, has recently come under fire for promoting wildlife farming as “animal protection.”

Shen Wangping, a volunteer with the China Biodiversity Conservation and Green Development Foundation, or CBCGDF, who tracks illegal wildlife poaching and trading in Henan province, said that the biggest culprits in wildlife poaching were the forestry administration and CWCA.

“People think this administration’s job is to protect wild animals. But the organization’s main objective is to push the breeding of wildlife everywhere, to give out permits for wildlife breeding and sales,” Shen said.

“Breeders who have these permits can go to the wild and hunt down wild animals, pretend they are human-bred, and sell them legally on the market.”

Last year, The Times reported on a provincial forestry administration that had issued breeding permits for pangolins, a critically endangered species, to a steel company in Guangdong province, which was then implicated in a criminal case of wildlife trafficking involving more than 50,000 smuggled pangolins.

“They’re the biggest criminal circles of illegal smuggling,” according to a former wildlife protection official in Guangxi province who said he had been offered near-daily bribes to turn a blind eye to wildlife smuggling. He compared wildlife traffickers to drug and arms smugglers.

Meanwhile, three of the CWCA’s 14 board vice chairs are executives of traditional Chinese medicine companies, which have commercial interest in farming wildlife for their products.

Those executives are Liu Jianshun, president of Ganzhou Pianzihuang, a medicine made of deer musk, cow gallstone, snake bile and an herbal root; Gao Zhenkun, managing director of Beijing Tongrentang, one of the world’s biggest traditional Chinese medicine companies, famous for its tiger bone wine; and Guo Jiaxue, head of Guangyuyuan, another such company whose trademark product guilingji traditionally includes seahorse and pangolin scales.

“These are the people in charge of the Chinese Wildlife Conservation Assn.,” said Zhou Jinfeng, secretary-general of the CBCGDF. “China’s wildlife are doomed, aren’t they?”
The CWCA did not respond to The Times’ requests for comment.

The latest edition of China’s national guidelines for COVID-19 treatment recommends a traditional Chinese medicine called tan re jing. Its main ingredient is bear bile, a liquid harvested from the gallbladders of bears kept in captivity. Techniques range from inserting rubber or metal tubes through a bear’s abdomen to cutting a permanent hole in the bear so its bile can “free-drip” for collection.

Animals Asia, an anti-animal cruelty group that rescues bears in Asia, says that farmed bears are often sick, their bile contaminated with blood, pus, feces and urine.

A spokesperson for Shanghai Kaibao Pharmaceutical Co., the producer of tan re jing and China’s largest bear bile manufacturer, said in a phone call that the ingredients come from “government-authorized animal breeding farms” and “at least the third generation of bred bears, not wild bears.”

The spokesperson, a member of the marketing department who did not give a full name, said that Shanghai Kaibao is also developing alternative materials for bear bile.

There is no clinical proof that traditional Chinese medicine helps to combat COVID-19. But authorities say they have used it to treat 85% of coronavirus patients in China. State media boast of its efficacy and promote its use in Africa, without mentioning that its production drives demand for wildlife farms and increases the risk of zoonotic disease outbreaks.

In a study published Feb. 14 in Letters in Applied Microbiology, German and Chinese researchers found that some of the bat species used for traditional Chinese medicine are likely hosts of the novel coronavirus.

Three of them — Pipistrellus abramus, Murina leucogaster and Rhinolophus ferrumequinum — can be found in Hubei province, which includes Wuhan. The third species , more commonly known as the greater horseshoe bat, is handled commercially for its feces and body partsCalled ye ming sha, “night brightness sand,” the bat feces is used to cure eye conditions, while the bat’s body parts are dried and either drunk with wine or ground into powder and swallowed as a general “detox” remedy

Wild bats pose a risk of disease transmission to anyone who handles them: “Even when the selling of live wild animals at food markets would be completely prohibited in China, the trading and handling of bats for traditional medicinal practices would remain a serious risk for future zoonotic coronavirus epidemics,” the researchers wrote.

China will have a chance to make a landmark step toward true conservation and away from commercialization in the name of protection when the National People’s Congress is expected to amend the Wildlife Protection Law this year.

Conservationists hope that China will ban wildlife use in medicine as well as consumption, and seriously regulate or end the wildlife farming system altogether.
Seventeen years after the SARS outbreak, Chinese society could be ripe for change. Recent surveys show that there has been a significant decline in wildlife consumption, especially in cities such as Beijing and Shanghai, though the practice remains common in the south.

“Society is ready to blame themselves, not just to blame those animals,” Kang said. “More organizations are standing up to say, ‘It’s not their problem, it’s our problem!’”
The question, according to conservationists, is whether Beijing will protect the interests of a multibillion-dollar industry that the state has promoted for years, or the lives of those it has endangered: dozens of animal species and billions of humans now exposed to COVID-19, including tens of thousands who have died.

Whether the planet can reduce the risk of another pandemic will depend on what China chooses.

Nicole Liu and Gaochao Zhang of The Times’ Beijing bureau contributed to this report.




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cloudsurf

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May 10, 2003
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I wouldn`t be surprised if Kruger pulp and paper, one of the largest Canadian manufacturers of napkins, paper towels and toilet paper isn`t already setting up to manufacture masks.

BTW Jal I also have been self quarantined for 3 weeks and saw my last escort a month ago.
Unlike you I live in a 1 bedroom condo, but luckily the St.Lawrence river runs a couple of hundred meters from my place and the fishing is not bad.
 

EagerBeaver

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Jul 11, 2003
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Great article CaptR. Compliments this article from the Wasington Post.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/worl...fe-scientists-say/ar-BB12907c?ocid=spartandhp

It doesn't matter, China can regulate the batshit out of this industry, but it will not stop the black market smugglers. It will make their efforts that much more profitable. Identifying the problem really does not help if you cannot stop it. Money is driving this trade, and will drive it even more in the future.
 

CaptRenault

A poor corrupt official
Jun 29, 2003
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It doesn't matter, China can regulate the batshit out of this industry, but it will not stop the black market smugglers...

Batshit? That is literally the problem, isn't it? :rolleyes:

China is doing virtually nothing now to stop, regulate or discourage the market for wild animals. In that case, the U.S. should step up efforts to provide some encouragement to do so.

We can start by drastically cutting back visas for Chinese students, academics, businesspeople and tourists and we can deport the many illegal aliens from China who are already here. We can reinstate and escalate the Trump tariffs on Chinese goods. We can ban Chinese citizens from buying American companies and real estate. We can draw more attention to China's lax health standards.

We can encourage American companies to move more production out of China-we can bring some home and we can move some of it to friendlier countries like Mexico, Taiwan and South Korea.

Yes, there would be economic costs to American businesses and people. But compare those costs to the current enormous economic and human costs of fighting yet another Chinese virus. It's time for Trump to really get tough with China. He has already been much tougher on China than any other recent president, but it's time to get much tougher.
 

CLOUD 500

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Jan 10, 2005
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CaptRenault,

I think cutting the borders with China would be the best thing to do. Too many diseases came from there. We are all paying huge economic costs.
 

CaptRenault

A poor corrupt official
Jun 29, 2003
2,505
1,497
113
Casablanca
CaptRenault,

I think cutting the borders with China would be the best thing to do...

Luckily, neither Canada nor the U.S. shares a border with China. So we can't build a wall. :D

But as i suggested, we can drastically reduce the inflow of citizens from China by restricting visas for all citizens of China. When rich, corrupt Chinese businesspeople and government officials can no longer send their children to American colleges and they can no longer stash their money in U.S. and Canadian real estate and businesses, then that would be a start.
 

CLOUD 500

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Jan 10, 2005
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^^^^^

Yep your suggestions are good. But I meant more restricting international flights between this country even screening people who might have travelled to China from another country within the past few months should be restricted.
 

The Nature Boy

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Jun 17, 2017
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But this goes to the earlier discussion of what happens when antibody tests become available. Will employers simply refuse to hire those without antibodies, or do the antibody deprived have to have their temperatures taken while those with antibodies don’t). If employment is scarce for those without antibodies, are relatively higher unemployment benefits available? If not, will they feel economically compelled to attend covid-19 parties and take a chance of death in order to find work?

Maybe? This is a novel virus and each day brings novel scenarios we need to think of. Whatever they do isn’t gonna be perfect, there will be ethical questions, yes. Much in same way dr.’s are asking who gets a ventilator we will have issues with who returns to work and normal life. It will surely be gradual and measured, not a free for all. Speaking for myself I’ve said to myself to kinda go with the flow, listen to the experts and try to help in all this. But don’t worry! I’m almost positive that if I haven’t gotten sick yet I’ve prob already been exposed. So as soon as I get the go ahead I’ll have one of the girls FaceTime you buddy from my MTL reverse GangBang!
 

jalimon

I am addicted member
Dec 28, 2015
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China is doing virtually nothing now to stop, regulate or discourage the market for wild animals. In that case, the U.S. should step up efforts to provide some encouragement to do so.

We can start by drastically cutting back visas for Chinese students, academics, businesspeople and tourists and we can deport the many illegal aliens from China who are already here. We can reinstate and escalate the Trump tariffs on Chinese goods. We can ban Chinese citizens from buying American companies and real estate. We can draw more attention to China's lax health standards.

Absolutely agree. Fuck 3 out of the 4 deadly virus that spread internationally in the last 20 years came out of China. It is about time that all other country in the world unite together and do WHATEVER they have to do so China understand and fix that problem.

The economic cost to do so cannot be worst then what we are living right now. We need to remember that!
 

minutemenX

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Jun 8, 2015
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Witches, Jews, Russians, Chinese etc. people need to blame other people. Can’t blame some brainles virus, right? Next time it will be Vietnamese pigs, reindeer or something and we blame people who bread them? Previous deadly virus MERC came from camels. Just by luck it was not transmissive to start epidemic. There is non-zero probability that something will jump on people no meter what. We all live on the same planet and interact with wildlife and animal kingdom constantly. Theoretically, even normal viruses that cause no more than cold now can mutate and become deadly. The only answer for this is to be prepared scientifically. Develop science and procedures that allows designing vaccine and treatment within weeks not months and years. It is entirely possible. Just a few years ago many months were needed to get the genetic makeup of the virus and now it was done within days. Support science fellows and stop blaming scapegoats.
 

jalimon

I am addicted member
Dec 28, 2015
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Minutemen I do agree with everything you wrote. Except let's call a cat a cat. China's wet market were responsible for:

Asian Flu in 1957-1958 from a mutation in wild ducks — at least 1.1 million dead
H5N1 Bird Flu in 1997 from Chinese geese — at least 455 dead
SARS in 2002-2003 from wild animals (perhaps bats, civet cats) — at least 774 dead
H7N9 Bird Flu in 2013 from poultry at live bird market — about 610 dead
Novel Coronavirus/COVID-19 which will cause probably a million dead a trillion lost.

So let's put some pressure on them to solves the issue.

That said life after this pandemic cannot be the same. We do need to understand that the planet has it's own limits. If we want to stay alive for a long time we need to have a smaller footprint.
 

The Nature Boy

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Jun 17, 2017
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I hope I can maintain an interest in watching.

LOL! thanks...

no idea about those bloodhound gang references your using

those articles u mention, didn’t read them but sounds like they r talking about monoclonal antibody therapy, I think. Fauci’s mentioned it a bunch of times. I would assume you can use it on both therapeutic and prophylactic purposes. I’m not an immunologist so don’t hold me to it but think can be used for both.

i think this is what was widely used in Ebola infected patients, in USA back in 2014, not sure though
 

No_Church_InThe_Wild

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May 31, 2014
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@ minutemenx Sorry sir but why is it scapegoating?
It originated in China’s wet markets like a lot of other viruses in the last two decades so they need to ban or better regulate the wildlife trade
The world needs to put some kind of pressure , we need to be proactive ... take away some of our business and you will get their attention
We cannot expect science to bail us out every time there is an outbreak, although maybe one day we will
We need to learn from this pandemic ,,, suggesting we look the other way , now where is the common sense in that ?
I’m not looking forward to covid-20
 

sweetspot

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Jul 31, 2016
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The virus could have started from any 3rd world country with wet markets, but none would have caused the situation we're in today, except China. The Chinese Communist Party is 100% responsible for forcing this pandemic upon the world by covering up early data, causing other nations to not realize how serious it is at the beginning, thus losing precious time. It took a whistleblower doctor for the world to pay attention.

The CCP will never be an honest player on the international stage, they steal intellectual property like crazy, don't play fairly in trades, try to infiltrate/influence local communities through their embassies and consulates, give a bad name to Chinese nationals, and so on. The world should put as much pressure as possible on shutting down those wet markets, no doubt about it. But the root problem is the nature of the CCP. If the CCP doesn't destroy the world with viruses, it'll do it with something else. I bet the next catastrophe will originate from China as well.

What to do then? You and I can't do anything. But there's hope. There's one single world leader who takes zero sh^t from the CCP and will bring down the hammer on them if necessary, and it happens that he's the most powerful man on the planet. Good times ahead.