What 3M was doing to the USA was criminal. We are in desperate need for these masks and 3M was prioritizing other countries because of the mighty dollar. Putting American first responders at risk so 3M could profit on orders from other countries. Their CEO Roman was trying to spin it as if they were doing the right thing for the world but it was all about the Benjamin's. When this is all over their CEO should be hung.
Coronavirus
- Thread starter C.B. Brown
- Start date
I do get that Americain are frustrated right now and in need to vent it out.
In my opinion we were 1 week too late in Quebec. Having shut down just before springbreak would have been ideal. But still we were 2 full weeks ahead of the US who were still in denial. These 2 weeks would have been crucial. Look at the numbers now. US has tested only 4,112 per million people. Half of what Canada did. 1/3 of Quebec. The Swiss have tested 17,729 people per million. Efficacy of the Swiss at it's best. Norway is even better. France is doing so poorly on that front it's a shame.
Patron your concept do not pisses me off. But it's the only way to go. Herd immunity does not work because right now who would take the risk to go back to normal life?
In my opinion we were 1 week too late in Quebec. Having shut down just before springbreak would have been ideal. But still we were 2 full weeks ahead of the US who were still in denial. These 2 weeks would have been crucial. Look at the numbers now. US has tested only 4,112 per million people. Half of what Canada did. 1/3 of Quebec. The Swiss have tested 17,729 people per million. Efficacy of the Swiss at it's best. Norway is even better. France is doing so poorly on that front it's a shame.
Patron your concept do not pisses me off. But it's the only way to go. Herd immunity does not work because right now who would take the risk to go back to normal life?
There was nothing about my post that was a joke. This is a real news not fake.
It would be waaaaaay more than 100,000 - 200,000 dead if we had it your way patron with waaay more economic instability.
i don’t think what he’s describing is herd immunity though?? It’s NOT just let everyone catch it and immunity develops, there ALSO, has to be some sort of vaccination process in place.
Patron we`ll soon see if herd immunity works in Brazil. The central government is not taking any steps to stop the spread, although some States and local governments are doing their best. Open your eyes and look at human nature. Even if the US government did nothing and left all commerce open and running....the majority of the population would self isolate.
It would only drag things out even more and instead of 200,000 deaths there would be 500,000 to a million deaths with people dying in hallways of hospital and on side walks.
BTW walooo you are in panic mode and not thinking logically. Roman will move to Canada as a hero and be given honorary Canadian citizenship for doing the right thing.
It would only drag things out even more and instead of 200,000 deaths there would be 500,000 to a million deaths with people dying in hallways of hospital and on side walks.
BTW walooo you are in panic mode and not thinking logically. Roman will move to Canada as a hero and be given honorary Canadian citizenship for doing the right thing.
Read the latest development on vaccines and treatment and you will see that they won't. The FDA is already working alongside many laboratories and pharma and will cut some corners. They already did.
They will. But remember a Vaccines does not work 100% of the time. For those already sick the best hope is with new treatment. Vaccines will be at first given to front line staff physicians, nurse, etc..
A recap of current research: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...-vaccines-heres-where-things-stand-2020-03-06
Patron, 7000/330,000,000, is not a #!!!! It’s health care workers/1st responders going into work with out proper equipment! It’s a field hospital being set up in Central Park, FUCKING CENTRAL PARK! It’s a mom and dad having to tell a 13 yo on a vent good bye via FaceTime. And yes it is also the restaurant owner who is now in the whole cause he’s paying his furloughed workers health insurance. I’m not trying to be a sensationalist but this is happening. You can’t flash fucking numbers up like that and say it’s minimal yea I’d give that dude remdesivir. And dude, why not expend some of that energy you spent writing translations, reviews and step by step tutorials, (all well appreciative mind you but a bit redundant sometimes) to writing to Gilead or leading some campaign for this dude??
Jalimon, well said in post 1720!
Jalimon, well said in post 1720!
Let me tell you something.....
I was a front-line health care worker for over 30+ years until i chose to retire a few years ago. I worked in the field through SARS & later H1N1. It was never even close to being this bad! I remember having to work with gowns, gloves, goggles, both surgical & N95 masks and let me tell you that it was extremely uncomfortable (especially during warm weather) but we all realized it was mandatory for our personal protection and others in our everyday lives.
Were i still in the field today THERE IS NO FUCKING WAY I'D ACCEPT TO WORK IN THIS PANDEMIC WITHOUT PROPER PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT. NO FUCKING WAY!!! I'D STAY HOME & THEY'D HAVE TO DRAG MY ASS OUT OF THE HOUSE TO GET ME TO AGREE TO SACRIFICE MY LIFE OUT THERE IN THE HEALTHCARE FIELD BECAUSE THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT WAS TOO STUPID AND CARELESS TO PROVIDE US WITH THE PROPER PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT!
I was a front-line health care worker for over 30+ years until i chose to retire a few years ago. I worked in the field through SARS & later H1N1. It was never even close to being this bad! I remember having to work with gowns, gloves, goggles, both surgical & N95 masks and let me tell you that it was extremely uncomfortable (especially during warm weather) but we all realized it was mandatory for our personal protection and others in our everyday lives.
Were i still in the field today THERE IS NO FUCKING WAY I'D ACCEPT TO WORK IN THIS PANDEMIC WITHOUT PROPER PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT. NO FUCKING WAY!!! I'D STAY HOME & THEY'D HAVE TO DRAG MY ASS OUT OF THE HOUSE TO GET ME TO AGREE TO SACRIFICE MY LIFE OUT THERE IN THE HEALTHCARE FIELD BECAUSE THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT WAS TOO STUPID AND CARELESS TO PROVIDE US WITH THE PROPER PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT!
22 fucking days I have been at home. I am lucky I have a big home in a quiet suburb. Still I am not one to live like a hermit.
The girl are really not what I miss right now (well I think about Lolathebrat every 5 minutes but that's because she is so hot and I am always horny). Dont miss going to work either.
What I miss is soccer! I miss watching it. Playing it with the kids. Coaching it. Bringing my youngest to his practice, games, tournament (yes even in winter he plays year round). It takes a crazy situation like this to truly find what gives a meaning to your life doesn't it?
Ok going for a walk... Again...
The girl are really not what I miss right now (well I think about Lolathebrat every 5 minutes but that's because she is so hot and I am always horny). Dont miss going to work either.
What I miss is soccer! I miss watching it. Playing it with the kids. Coaching it. Bringing my youngest to his practice, games, tournament (yes even in winter he plays year round). It takes a crazy situation like this to truly find what gives a meaning to your life doesn't it?
Ok going for a walk... Again...
China Donating Ventilators to NY
The Chinese come through!!!
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-04-04-20/h_1f631979b35b4bcfa05223e75c101e9b
The Chinese come through!!!
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-04-04-20/h_1f631979b35b4bcfa05223e75c101e9b
There might be a solution...to get even ???
(Apparently most of the raw materials for masks made in the US are exported by Canada).
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...o-make-pulp-for-medical-masks-gowns-1.5507661
Sampson says the U.S. company that's been ordering the K10S pulp for years suddenly doubled its orders over the past week.
Also EB, I will propose, enforced by our agencies and SPs that they charge TARRIFS (A la Trump) to all US clients after this thing is over...
This article from the Los Angeles Times does not give me a lot of confidence about the world's ability to prevent future virus outbreaks. As long as the Chinese Communist Party refuses to control the source of such outbreaks, we are in danger. Maybe it's time for the rest of the world to put some real pressure on China to put an end to the conditions and practices that have led to these outbreaks several times in recent decades.
Why China’s wildlife ban is not enough to stop another virus outbreak
By ALICE SUCHINA CORRESPONDENT
latimes.com
APRIL 2, 2020
SHANGHAI
When SARS hit the world in 2003, China went after the civet.
The weasel-like animal, eaten as a delicacy in southern China, was suspected of being an intermediary host of the virus that infected 8,000 people and killed 800 in China and across the world. Tens of thousands of civets were drowned or electrocuted.
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The weasel-like animal, eaten as a delicacy in southern China, was suspected of being an intermediary host of the virus that infected 8,000 people and killed 800 in China and across the world. Tens of thousands of civets were drowned or electrocuted.
China also banned the hunting, trading and consumption of wildlife. But that restriction was lifted three months later. The National Forestry and Grassland Administration announced that 54 types of wildlife, civets included, could be consumed and sold, as long as they were raised on farms.
By 2019, the wildlife trade was thriving. In November, the forestry administration republished a news report from Jiangxi province on its website, boasting that it had helped 1,700 people in one town alone to take up civet breeding and “embark on the road to riches.”
Stories of success read like fables: “The cold winter wind was screaming on Nov. 27, but Zhang Zhilin, a poor farmer in Shaping town of Wanan county had a ‘warm sun’ in his heart. The 33 civet cats he bred would come out for sale next year, bringing in $7,000 of income,” the report read.
Two months later, another coronavirus — SARS-CoV-2, as it is officially called — was sweeping the nation. The disease it causes, COVID-19, would soon devastate the world, infecting more than a million people and killing more than 52,000 so far.
A bat vendor on Sulawesi island in Indonesia. Bats are suspected to have been a source of the new coronavirus that swept China and spread worldwide.
Once again, China banned wildlife trade and consumption, first temporarily, then upgrading to a permanent ban on Feb. 24 — though it has not yet been enshrined in the Wildlife Protection Law. Since then, authorities have shut down nearly 20,000 farms raising peacocks, porcupines, ostriches and other animals.
Conservation groups lauded the ban as a major step forward, but not enough to stop another outbreak: The ban covers only land animals. It punishes consumers but does not tackle corrupt ties among government officials, corporate interests and “breeders” who use permits as a cover for illegal trade.
And it leaves a glaring loophole by allowing continued use of wildlife for traditional Chinese medicine, including animal-based remedies that national health authorities are now prescribing as treatment for the coronavirus. Current law permits the farming of bats, pangolins and bears to make medicine from their feces, scales and bile, which drives the demand for wildlife and raises the risk of another pandemic.
For years, Chinese and international conservation groups have been calling for a change in China’s approach to wildlife “protection,” which views wild animals as essentially a commodity and sanctions farming and breeding for human consumption and corporate profit.
It is a $73-billion industry that employs more than 14 million people, according to a 2017 industry report by the Chinese Academy of Engineering. The government has promoted its growth, especially in underdeveloped rural areas, in recent years.
As part of a Communist Party-led initiative to eliminate poverty in China, Wanan county has invested more than $1.3 million in infrastructure for civet breeding and given more than $28,000 in subsidies to farmers who pivoted into the wildlife business, according to the Jiangxi report.
“Wildlife breeding and utilization is a rapidly developing industry in recent years. Our province should seize the opportunity,” said Huang Xiaofeng, director of wild animal and plant protection at Jiangxi province’s Forestry Academy, in the report.
Under China’s Wildlife Protection Law, enacted in 1989 and most recently amended in 2018, wild animals, including endangered species, can be farmed and traded by purveyors with government permits, usually granted by provincial authorities...
...Changing China’s wildlife industry would require not only public education and cultural shifts, but also a confrontation with corporate interests and official corruption.
The China Wildlife Conservation Assn., or CWCA, a nongovernmental organization with many members who are former national forestry administration officials, has recently come under fire for promoting wildlife farming as “animal protection.”
Shen Wangping, a volunteer with the China Biodiversity Conservation and Green Development Foundation, or CBCGDF, who tracks illegal wildlife poaching and trading in Henan province, said that the biggest culprits in wildlife poaching were the forestry administration and CWCA.
“People think this administration’s job is to protect wild animals. But the organization’s main objective is to push the breeding of wildlife everywhere, to give out permits for wildlife breeding and sales,” Shen said.
“Breeders who have these permits can go to the wild and hunt down wild animals, pretend they are human-bred, and sell them legally on the market.”
Last year, The Times reported on a provincial forestry administration that had issued breeding permits for pangolins, a critically endangered species, to a steel company in Guangdong province, which was then implicated in a criminal case of wildlife trafficking involving more than 50,000 smuggled pangolins.
“They’re the biggest criminal circles of illegal smuggling,” according to a former wildlife protection official in Guangxi province who said he had been offered near-daily bribes to turn a blind eye to wildlife smuggling. He compared wildlife traffickers to drug and arms smugglers.
Meanwhile, three of the CWCA’s 14 board vice chairs are executives of traditional Chinese medicine companies, which have commercial interest in farming wildlife for their products.
Those executives are Liu Jianshun, president of Ganzhou Pianzihuang, a medicine made of deer musk, cow gallstone, snake bile and an herbal root; Gao Zhenkun, managing director of Beijing Tongrentang, one of the world’s biggest traditional Chinese medicine companies, famous for its tiger bone wine; and Guo Jiaxue, head of Guangyuyuan, another such company whose trademark product guilingji traditionally includes seahorse and pangolin scales.
“These are the people in charge of the Chinese Wildlife Conservation Assn.,” said Zhou Jinfeng, secretary-general of the CBCGDF. “China’s wildlife are doomed, aren’t they?”
The CWCA did not respond to The Times’ requests for comment.
The latest edition of China’s national guidelines for COVID-19 treatment recommends a traditional Chinese medicine called tan re jing. Its main ingredient is bear bile, a liquid harvested from the gallbladders of bears kept in captivity. Techniques range from inserting rubber or metal tubes through a bear’s abdomen to cutting a permanent hole in the bear so its bile can “free-drip” for collection.
Animals Asia, an anti-animal cruelty group that rescues bears in Asia, says that farmed bears are often sick, their bile contaminated with blood, pus, feces and urine.
A spokesperson for Shanghai Kaibao Pharmaceutical Co., the producer of tan re jing and China’s largest bear bile manufacturer, said in a phone call that the ingredients come from “government-authorized animal breeding farms” and “at least the third generation of bred bears, not wild bears.”
The spokesperson, a member of the marketing department who did not give a full name, said that Shanghai Kaibao is also developing alternative materials for bear bile.
There is no clinical proof that traditional Chinese medicine helps to combat COVID-19. But authorities say they have used it to treat 85% of coronavirus patients in China. State media boast of its efficacy and promote its use in Africa, without mentioning that its production drives demand for wildlife farms and increases the risk of zoonotic disease outbreaks.
In a study published Feb. 14 in Letters in Applied Microbiology, German and Chinese researchers found that some of the bat species used for traditional Chinese medicine are likely hosts of the novel coronavirus.
Three of them — Pipistrellus abramus, Murina leucogaster and Rhinolophus ferrumequinum — can be found in Hubei province, which includes Wuhan. The third species , more commonly known as the greater horseshoe bat, is handled commercially for its feces and body partsCalled ye ming sha, “night brightness sand,” the bat feces is used to cure eye conditions, while the bat’s body parts are dried and either drunk with wine or ground into powder and swallowed as a general “detox” remedy
Wild bats pose a risk of disease transmission to anyone who handles them: “Even when the selling of live wild animals at food markets would be completely prohibited in China, the trading and handling of bats for traditional medicinal practices would remain a serious risk for future zoonotic coronavirus epidemics,” the researchers wrote.
China will have a chance to make a landmark step toward true conservation and away from commercialization in the name of protection when the National People’s Congress is expected to amend the Wildlife Protection Law this year.
Conservationists hope that China will ban wildlife use in medicine as well as consumption, and seriously regulate or end the wildlife farming system altogether.
Seventeen years after the SARS outbreak, Chinese society could be ripe for change. Recent surveys show that there has been a significant decline in wildlife consumption, especially in cities such as Beijing and Shanghai, though the practice remains common in the south.
“Society is ready to blame themselves, not just to blame those animals,” Kang said. “More organizations are standing up to say, ‘It’s not their problem, it’s our problem!’”
The question, according to conservationists, is whether Beijing will protect the interests of a multibillion-dollar industry that the state has promoted for years, or the lives of those it has endangered: dozens of animal species and billions of humans now exposed to COVID-19, including tens of thousands who have died.
Whether the planet can reduce the risk of another pandemic will depend on what China chooses.
Nicole Liu and Gaochao Zhang of The Times’ Beijing bureau contributed to this report.
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I wouldn`t be surprised if Kruger pulp and paper, one of the largest Canadian manufacturers of napkins, paper towels and toilet paper isn`t already setting up to manufacture masks.
BTW Jal I also have been self quarantined for 3 weeks and saw my last escort a month ago.
Unlike you I live in a 1 bedroom condo, but luckily the St.Lawrence river runs a couple of hundred meters from my place and the fishing is not bad.
BTW Jal I also have been self quarantined for 3 weeks and saw my last escort a month ago.
Unlike you I live in a 1 bedroom condo, but luckily the St.Lawrence river runs a couple of hundred meters from my place and the fishing is not bad.
Great article CaptR. Compliments this article from the Wasington Post.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/worl...fe-scientists-say/ar-BB12907c?ocid=spartandhp
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/worl...fe-scientists-say/ar-BB12907c?ocid=spartandhp
It doesn't matter, China can regulate the batshit out of this industry, but it will not stop the black market smugglers. It will make their efforts that much more profitable. Identifying the problem really does not help if you cannot stop it. Money is driving this trade, and will drive it even more in the future.
Possible Disruptions To Food Supply Chain Coming!!!!
I would stock up with canned foods and instant ramen noodles, as the shocks to the food supply chain are still to come:
https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-...tages-says-government-document-223308504.html
I would stock up with canned foods and instant ramen noodles, as the shocks to the food supply chain are still to come:
https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-...tages-says-government-document-223308504.html
Batshit? That is literally the problem, isn't it?
China is doing virtually nothing now to stop, regulate or discourage the market for wild animals. In that case, the U.S. should step up efforts to provide some encouragement to do so.
We can start by drastically cutting back visas for Chinese students, academics, businesspeople and tourists and we can deport the many illegal aliens from China who are already here. We can reinstate and escalate the Trump tariffs on Chinese goods. We can ban Chinese citizens from buying American companies and real estate. We can draw more attention to China's lax health standards.
We can encourage American companies to move more production out of China-we can bring some home and we can move some of it to friendlier countries like Mexico, Taiwan and South Korea.
Yes, there would be economic costs to American businesses and people. But compare those costs to the current enormous economic and human costs of fighting yet another Chinese virus. It's time for Trump to really get tough with China. He has already been much tougher on China than any other recent president, but it's time to get much tougher.
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