COVID's vaccine, by whom, when, effective? all around the vaccine

[CLOUD 500]

You just gave me proof of what I said.

I can't change an entire healthcare system.

I still protested to the authorities of the CHSLD, the way my mother had been treated.

Exactly my point so put the blame where it belongs, on the government. Locking people down and putting restrictions is so wrong. Putting the blame on the unvaccinated is silly. All those CHSLD deaths is due to government incompetence. Do you not see how much damage these lockdowns are causing? Inflation is skyrocketing, the prices are rising so fast, mental health of many is deteriorating fast, the homeless population has tripled (yesterday at Atwater station it was full of homeless).

Canada News Today – Latest National and Local Stories – CTV News

CTV News is your source for breaking news, live updates, analysis, and videos from across Canada. Follow top stories for exclusive insights on Canadian politics, health and more.

www.ctvnews.ca

^^^^^
This is all due to government lockdowns and restrictions.

Advocates urge Quebec to reduce COVID isolation for seniors in care

“The question is ... whether preventive measures are worse than the actual infection.”

montrealgazette.com

^^^^^
Look at how these seniors are being treated as prisoners in the name of protection. All because the government is talking about money. They keep on taking with high taxes but do not want to expand the healthcare. These lockdowns is them saying they do not want anyone in the hospitals (to not have to spend much money).

Furthermore, they got an ace up their sleaves but again too much government redtape and rules is making the situation worse. They bring immigrants to this country many who are more then qualified example those that worked as nurses in their countries (they are trained and fully qualified) but Quebec makes it very hard for them to get their papers. They are often told to redo the courses because they want Quebec experience and many are not even allowed to stand because they cannot speak French. So what. They should fast track all these immigrants give them their papers and hired to work in the hospitals to help. Imagine a nurse of 10 years who has to work at a McDonalds. Quebec is the worst for this. Other countries like the US make it much easier to recognized immigrants professions (less government redtape) and are paid a lot more also. Now they want to recruit nurses from foreign countries, but the damage is done. This should have been done 21 months ago.

 

[Womaniser]

Friends, family and fellow foodies mourn the loss of CBC ...https://www.cbc.ca › news › canada › edmonton › cbc-...

This could be fake news plant but seems quite detailed.
Of course CBC just talks about her love for food.
Only unvaxxed deaths get their vax status posted it seems.
Definitely something killing either way.

Vaccine-promoting Canadian radio host Adrienne Pan dead after battling post-Moderna illness

Your source Newstarget is so full of shit that if it was published on paper, it would look like all Montreal would have used after their No 2 !

 

[bonerland citizen]

Your source Newstarget is so full of shit that if it was published on paper, it would look like all Montreal would have used after their No 2 !

Newstarget seems to be a collection of a lot of questionable articles I agree.
I will say that "fake news" sometimes is very detailed and does make you question.
As usual us commoners can't really verify info.
Vaers might be more accurate.
Vaers could be put together by Trump supporters I don't know.

VAERS Summary for COVID-19 Vaccines through 01/14/2022 ...

 

[westwoody]

Vaers could be put together by Trump supporters I don't know.

VAERS is a system for reporting incidents that occur after a medical treatment.
It is very important to not make assumptions on VAERS data. Cause of incident is not always certain, only that there is an incident that may be worth investigating.
It is one of the most misused statistics.

The site you link in your post is not the real site, and is NOT a summary! It is cherry picked data and you are right it is likely made by Trump or anti vaxxxers.
The real VAERS site is vaers.hhs.gov
Selective abuse of data is the same as lying and is common in anti vax media. They include a bit of truth to make absolute nonsense look credible.

 

[wetnose]

VAERS is a system for reporting incidents that occur after a medical treatment.
It is very important to not make assumptions on VAERS data. Cause of incident is not always certain, only that there is an incident that may be worth investigating.
It is one of the most misused statistics.

VAERs is also not verified. Anyone can post anything, from anywhere. So I could post that my nose fell off and a 3ft long tentacle grew in its place.

VAERs would accept it.

Side note: it's great for driving!!!! And so convenient for holding an ipad while I'm cooking small puppies.

 

[gallantca]

Good article on bioethics, unbiased (IMO)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pandemic-covid-vaccine-triage-omicron-1.6319844

 

[Francoquart]

Good article on bioethics, unbiased (IMO)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pandemic-covid-vaccine-triage-omicron-1.6319844

Any article that presumes the Vaccinated are the correct choice, while the non vaccinated are a liability, they are confused, missinforned, like it was a childish behaviour, is in no way unbiased. The article has already decided what was right, and just exploring and explaining how the wrong ones should be dealt with, and the dilemmas that comes with such decisions. Kinda like a priest preaching that Jesus loves all men, sinner or not, but the sinners must be punished for their sins.
The thing is that the damage has been done. This vaccine is now a symbol for persecution, and the more these idiots push with punitive measures, the more resilient the Unvaccinated will become. Not only that, but a deep rift has been created between the people, and the institutions. Personally, while at the start I would discuss and debate all opinion, nowadays I am having low tolerance towards the Vaccine Zealots. They are the major drive behind these stupid measures, and are screaming for more, like an uncontrollable mob shouting for blood. I do not know if our society had become less democratic, critical, tolerant, and this crisis just made that apparent, or if it has actually changed it.
The Vaccine Mandate was stopped in the USA. This gives hope, and the UK is now following. The US once again proves to be a fortress when it comes to freedom. It is obvious that a long debate about how the fuck did we go so low will be held in the future when the dust settles over this pandemic and reason is back.

 

[gallantca]

Any article that presumes the Vaccinated are the correct choice, while the non vaccinated are a liability, they are confused, missinforned, like it was a childish behaviour, is in no way unbiased. The article has already decided what was right, and just exploring and explaining how the wrong ones should be dealt with, and the dilemmas that comes with such decisions. Kinda like a priest preaching that Jesus loves all men, sinner or not, but the sinners must be punished for their sins.
The thing is that the damage has been done. This vaccine is now a symbol for persecution, and the more these idiots push with punitive measures, the more resilient the Unvaccinated will become. Not only that, but a deep rift has been created between the people, and the institutions. Personally, while at the start I would discuss and debate all opinion, nowadays I am having low tolerance towards the Vaccine Zealots. They are the major drive behind these stupid measures, and are screaming for more, like an uncontrollable mob shouting for blood. I do not know if our society had become less democratic, critical, tolerant, and this crisis just made that apparent, or if it has actually changed it.
The Vaccine Mandate was stopped in the USA. This gives hope, and the UK is now following. The US once again proves to be a fortress when it comes to freedom. It is obvious that a long debate about how the fuck did we go so low will be held in the future when the dust settles over this pandemic and reason is back.

You need to re-read the article. They never say vaccination is the right choice.

The quote the president of the association of ethics says "Usually, bioethics is all about protecting and promoting the right of each patient to make their own decisions".

They make the case for never prioritizing the vaccinated.

They attribute different philosophies to different people, expert in their fields.

 

[Francoquart]

You need to re-read the article. They never say vaccination is the right choice.

The quote the president of the association of ethics says "Usually, bioethics is all about protecting and promoting the right of each patient to make their own decisions".

They make the case for never prioritizing the vaccinated.

They attribute different philosophies to different people, expert in their fields.

Yes, that is how they are showing the dilemma. However, it is the Non Vaccinated that are being the subject, or the question, as to how to deal with them. They are stating that some doctors are even ok with the idea of not prioritizing them in the triage.
"Vaccinated majorities in wealthy western countries are growing increasingly impatient with a science-denying minority being blamed for prolonging the pandemic and stretching critical care resources to the breaking point."
"If we have two patients with the same level of clinical need, same age, same context, but one is vaccinated and one isn't, could we de-prioritize the patient who is unvaccinated by choice? There is a minority of bioethicists who are becoming more accepting of this logic at this point in time."
"Not all of those deaths can be blamed on the demands placed on the system by the unvaccinated — but some probably can."

These 3 passages could be developed at extreme length as to what is the message conveyed. It is again the Non Vaccinated that is being compared to terrorist, poor decision making, non scientific, the list can go on. Its like saying; well yeah they chose poorly, and did a lot if damage along the way, so how do we deal with them? When you are already guilty, and the jury is discussing how you should be punished, how is that Unbiased?
The real question I am asking myself is about he purpose of the article itself. Is it preparing the people for worst decision and measures to come?

 

[gallantca]

The real question I am asking myself is about he purpose of the article itself. Is it preparing the people for worst decision and measures to come?

Because we reached a point where hospitals do have to choose who they treat and who they don’t. The fact they delayed hundreds of surgeries to deal with Covid is the proof. This requires debate.

We can both agree we would prefer to see an increase hospital capacity rather than having to make these decisions. But that is not going to happen in any reasonable time.

So we have to make choices and there are ethical issues to deal with when doing so. She goes on to say she disagrees with using vaccination status as a criteria and the majority of doctors agree.

I personally am for taxing poor behavior (smoking, dangerous lifestyle....whatever), but agree with this statement
"The core fundamental principle of clinical ethics tells us that once a person enters the hospital as a patient, whatever got them there is no longer part of the equation"

They use the extreme example of a terrorist. They never make a link between unvaccinated and terrorist. While I understand the duress EVERYONE is under, I think you are seeing links that don't exist

 

[westwoody]

an uncontrollable mob shouting for blood

I see lots of anti vax mobs holding demonstrations and yelling at people with masks, I have seen anti vaxxers go into Costco and throw tantrums.
I have not seen any pro mask mobs attacking anti vaxxers or blocking ambulances with anti vaxxers inside them.
Who is the real uncontrollable mob?

The real question anti vaxxers have to ask is "How can I twist every news story so I can feel like a victim and feel sorry for myself?"

 

[Francoquart]

I see lots of anti vax mobs holding demonstrations and yelling at people with masks, I have seen anti vaxxers go into Costco and throw tantrums.
I have not seen any pro mask mobs attacking anti vaxxers or blocking ambulances with anti vaxxers inside them.
Who is the real uncontrollable mob?

Not to defend such actions, but they are the ones aggressed. The government is taking care of the Pro Vax side. If you seriously think that you can push people, ridiculed them, make them feel as secondary citizens, etc, they will just take it peacefully, then you must confuse them with Jesus. They are people, and they will push back. The Mob shouting for blood is the Media now. They are the ones shouting, and you are the ones supporting, ends up with the same result. The Unvaccinated are not barbarians, they are not sinners, they are just not convinced with the Vaccine, and it seems that they were right. But now, the Unvaccinated have become more of a Symbol for personal Freedom. They are showing those leaders that they have the right to be smart and think for themselves. They are showing them that not everybody is geared by fear, and that they have the courage to stand up to the coming fight.

The real question anti vaxxers have to ask is "How can I twist every news story so I can feel like a victim and feel sorry for myself?

The mandate and the constant blaming in the media does it for them, they do not really need to put much effort. You do not believe they are Victims, because you believe that they are the source of the problem.

Wouldn't be surprised if they run a campaign stating that the Unvaccinated are the reason of the Pandemic. I mean who needs logic and reasons these days. Just keep repeating the same story until people believes it.

 

[Francoquart]

They use the extreme example of a terrorist. They never make a link between unvaccinated and terrorist. While I understand the duress EVERYONE is under, I think you are seeing links that don't exist

Never made a direct link that is true, what they made is an Association. This is the number one principle use in Media and Marketing. You always associate a brand to something to give it an identity and an image.
In summary, the idea behind it all is to State that the Unvaccinated are a problem that needs to be dealt with. Once that idea is well rooted, whatever happens to them, or however severe is the punishment, people will accept it. This will also affect the other non vaccinated by instilling fear in them, and push them to get the shots.

We can both agree we would prefer to see an increase hospital capacity rather than having to make these decisions. But that is not going to happen in any reasonable time.

It is the real problem. The resources that been put to buy, promote, and distribute the Vaccine, by far exceeds what was needed to improve this sector, Nobody is saying to make it perfect, just improve it. There are so many ideas, but that lazy leader, well what can I say.

They have created a side battle, and an escape goat to run from the real problem. They do not want people to ask the right questions, but want them divided, with the wrong questions. This 90/10 hospitalization debate is an example. Less than 300 people in ICU are stretching our Health care system.?? Instead of asking why, and what can we do to improve that, he went on to attack the 10 percent non vaccinated. Instead of tackling the problem head on, he is diverting us by creating a fictive one, where he seems to be doing something, while he is actually doing nothing with the root problem. A diversion tactic if you want.

 

[Chouin95]

I see lots of anti vax mobs holding demonstrations and yelling at people with masks, I have seen anti vaxxers go into Costco and throw tantrums.
I have not seen any pro mask mobs attacking anti vaxxers or blocking ambulances with anti vaxxers inside them.
Who is the real uncontrollable mob?

The real question anti vaxxers have to ask is "How can I twist every news story so I can feel like a victim and feel sorry for myself?"

The reason you never see pro mask mobs doing whatever is very simple. They are at home, scared and weak, watching TV and reading newspapers while sipping on a can of diet pepsi.

 

[sene5hos]

Australian anti-vaxxers fabricate the death of a young boy, falsely attributing it to the COVID vaccine.

Conspiracy theorists have a long record of making stuff up when reality fails to prove them right.

 

[westwoody]

Conspiracy theorists have a long record of making stuff up when reality fails to prove them right.

Interesting that exact thing happened on perb.

A guy claimed his friend’s wife was killed in a motor vehicle accident and the cause of death on the certificate was Covid.
He gave fairly specific details so his story was easily fact checked. There was no record of such an accident matching his details. He has made several similar bogus claims and fortunately the mods purged his crap.

 

[westwoody]

They are at home, scared and weak, watching TV and reading newspapers while sipping on a can of diet pepsi.

No way LOL

Down in the basement doing squats fuelled by full sugar Monster Swiss!

 

[sene5hos]

After saying that she would get vaccinated only "over hear dead body," Sarah Palin tests positive for COVID.

Sarah Palin has always been the personification of Republican intelligence.

 

[sene5hos]

They are at home, scared and weak, watching TV and reading newspapers while sipping on a can of diet pepsi.

They could play Monopoly, but

 

[Chouin95]

No way LOL

Down in the basement doing squats fuelled by full sugar Monster Swiss!

Good for you man, your setup looks legit!
Same for me, working out is my #1 stress reliever during this gong show of a pandemic.
But still I’m a bit confused, just tell me that you’re not a pro-mask preacher and we’re good.