Election 2012: Will History repeat itself? Union National splits vote, PQ wins power.

[Sol Tee Nutz]

But you guys need to understand something, the province of quebec is FRENCH, its the official language, we where conquered by english back then but we never got back what was rightfully ours, and thats our province being independant. Outside montreal the province is MAJORITY french, there is only in mtl you will get serve in english first. Never i was served in english at any business in sherbrooke or quebec city, 2 of the other 'major cities". They should be push to learn french instead of english and turning the province into spanish/chinese/indian that speak english. We resisted for hundred of years the english, and we must continue. Why Quebec could not be independant? Our territory is bigger than europeen countries... our culture is a miles away from english canada...

I just left in certain key points. First, if you are so keen on french only why do you speak English? Right, because it is needed. Second as you stated the french was conquered by the English and you say you never got back what was rightfully yours?? The only reason France got to be France again is because the Nazi's were defeated or you all would be wearing leather shorts, drinking good beer plus speaking German. And should the french heritage be taught at home and not in the schools, if quebecors are so strong with their traditions why is it needed to be forced on people? As for seperating Quebec would not stand a chance to go it alone, it would be a third world country within 5 years maybe less. As it is Quebec has the highest tax rate in North America, the most politicians/civil servents in Canada. " Based on data provided by the Quebec Department of Finance in its 2012-2013 Budget Plan (which does not take into account Quebec’s share of the federal debt), we estimate that the debt increases by: $10.2 billion per year, the equivalent of $28 million per day, $19,331 per minute, or $322 per second ". Quebecs debt now is about 200 billion. If the PQ get in power you will see the amounts go higher, businesses and people will leave Quebec. Quebecs blackmail days over Canada is over because the rest of Canada knows the majority of Quebecers do not want to leave and just the " people " ( have other words but this is more politically correct ) such as Pauline stand for maybe 20%. Quebecers live in a great country, many other countries would sacrifice a lot to become a part of Canada. Again, if Quebecers are such traditional and proud people why do you need everything to be forced upon everyone. This will end up as a military state, show anything but french and you will be punished. No other religous gear allowed but catholic. Sad that people actually agree with this mentality.

 

[Halloween Mike]

First, i speak english here because like i said te board is mainly english. Its not that i hate english, in term of internet its usefull for buying stuff out of the US, gaming with people around the world. If you play with a German or swedish, you will communicate in english cause you don't speak there language. But in real life i will RARELY use the english language. Every country that was eventually conquered got back its territories... exept us, it seem like some people think its ok to be a french province in an english country... wich i feel is not. Im not a political person, so if you in term of debt and such, i won't argue cause i just don't check this. One thing i know tougt, is that our nation and people deserve to be independant.

Its not that i don't like canada, its a fine country, just like many others, i just don't feel being a part of it. When people call me a canadian on the internet it always feel weird, i never call myself a canadian, always a "Quebecois". The flag on the wall of my bedroom is not the canadian one, its the quebec flag. Even the US with there different laws from one state to another are always united under there flag and such. Its not normal that the "canadian holiday july 1st" here in quebec is basically moving day and nobody celebrate it.

And live i said...the monarchy... oh it piss me off so bad. Monarchy has no place in this world anymore, it feel like an underserved glory, even worst than the likes of Kim Kardashian or these...lol

And the french being taught is actually how we will preserve our language and culture, and no immigrant will be learning french by himself without proper help. Oh and one last thing... who care about the church exept old people? We kicked out the church many years ago and its autority and that was a great movie, laic society should be the norm, im against all forms of religion, its just a tool for war, persecution and its sh...

 

[oldbutartful]

Paying for education by taxes earned when they graduate. Unfortunately true BUT IN OTHER PROVINCES AND COUNTRIES THAN QUEBEC. facts are 45% of Quebec Graduates migrate to other provinces and abroad. So the tax payers loose out yet again.

 

[gugu]

And should the french heritage be taught at home and not in the schools...

I agree. Since the french heritage is so shitty, I think it should be erased from books, especially in schools. Half the time saved should be spent on teaching the Prairies heritage and the other half on teaching business and economics. After all, isn't banking and economics responsible for the magnificent state of things in our society?

This will end up as a military state

You have convinced me. Now I understand why the PQ wants to increase military spendings and why QS meeting have such a military look and feeling.

 

[gugu]

facts are 45% of Quebec Graduates migrate to other provinces and abroad. So the tax payers loose out yet again.

I though it was 85%. Are you sure about your "fact"?

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

Love sarcasm NO, the French history should be taught in schools in a history class in either french or english but it should be the persons choice which school they want to go to. Forcing a language on a population is a form of dictatorship. If the parents of the quebecers do not enforce the language at home why should it be forced upon the general population? Many people I know in Quebec would send their kids to an English school so they can be prepared for a good job. Most successfull business people in Quebec know English. The PQ just wants to handcuff their people so they can not leave Quebec. Love the way some people twist things around.

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

facts are 45% of Quebec Graduates migrate to other provinces and abroad.

They also have the highest dropout rate in Canada. You get something for near free you do not work at it, again more tax dollar waste.

 

[gugu]

Love sarcasm NO, the French history should be taught in schools in a history class in either french or english but it should be the persons choice which school they want to go to. Forcing a language on a population is a form of dictatorship. If the parents of the quebecers do not enforce the language at home why should it be forced upon the general population? Many people I know in Quebec would send their kids to an English school so they can be prepared for a good job. Most successfull business people in Quebec know English. The PQ just wants to handcuff their people so they can not leave Quebec. Love the way some people twist things around.

You're funny! You have all rights to send your kids to whatever school you want. Why are you coming back with that again? Just like anybody, french people can also send their kids in english schools if they want. What you do not understand I think is the difference between the right to school language and the policy on school financing. We fund no more english only schools in Québec then the USA fund spanish only schools. It is the same all over the world. French people who want their kids to learn english have many ways to do it, including public funded programs in public french schools that emphasize the learning of english. I appreciate your solicitude for the wealth of the French community, but do not worry for us, we can take our responsibility in our own hands.

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

Just like anybody, french people can also send their kids in english schools if they want.

Bullshit. My ex-wife is from Quebec and I know about as much about ( but now it looks like more than you ) about where a quebecer can send their kids to school. The only reason we could send our kids to an English school is because I went to school in Alberta. If someone comes from any other country the person has to send their kids to a french school. My daughter is now going to Richmond regional high school, and holy fuck, it is government funded. And I do not think the USA was ever taken over by Spain.

 

[gugu]

And I do not think the USA was ever taken over by Spain.

That sound terribly red neck!

The only reason we could send our kids to an English school is because I went to school in Alberta.

Why didn't you send your kids to french school????? That is not in line with your preaching. I though you believed it was a good thing for franco quebecers to learn a second language. It is not the case for your kids? Taking into account that you also lived in a french speaking city, you had two good reasons. tssssst tssssst tsssst.

Oh! also, I am telling you again: you should make a difference between freedom of schooling language and public funding policies for schools.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Just like anybody, french people can also send their kids in english schools if they want.

That, gugu, is a classist statement, unintended I hope. Yup, if they have the money to go to a private school, they can send their kids to English school. I have Anglo friends who send their kids to free French schools as I would have had I raised my kids in Quebec; my French friends don't have a similar option. The straightest route to bi-lingualism is to go to a school operating in the language that you don't learn at home. Poor French kids are discriminated against and that, my friend, is a problem.

 

[anon_vlad]

Why didn't you send your kids to french school?????

According to the law, if you bring your 16 year old kid from outside Canada (for example, England) who has studied in English all his life to Quebec, he has to go to French school. How many of us are so brilliant as to be able to pass the final year of High School in a language which is completely new to us?
The alternative is to send the child to a fully private school at a cost of 15k ++.

 

[Techman]

Give up on talking sense with gugu. He's a language zealot and a closet separatist. He claims to be a federalist but said that he's going to vote for QS, one of the most separatist and radical partys out there.

Gugu, if someone pays taxes to the province of Quebec, and part of these taxes are used to fund the school systems, then the taxpayer should be able to choose which PUBLIC school they send their kids to. Anything else is discrimination. By supporting this law, you support discrimination and while all discrimination is wrong, there is nothing worse than government sponsored discrimination. If the Quebecois culture is so strong and so deserving of preservation, then the members of that culture are responsible for it's survival. IF they're too damn lazy to teach this importance to their children then it does not deserve to survive.

But as I've said many times, and what not one single language zealot has been able to counter, it has nothing to do with survival of the culture. Even if Montreal was one day to split from Quebec or to become an officially bilingual city, the culture would still survive here and in the rest of Quebec where it has never been in any danger at all and is not in any danger today. But that is not enough. It's all about power, pure and simple.

 

[gugu]

Ouch Rump, that hurts! The policy is indeed classist in that perspective but that’s how rights are protected. You cannot force people in a choice. It compares with people who decide to school their kids at home (probably more people doing that then paying for totally private schools). But you can decide on what you will be funding.

True that schooling in an other language is a straight route to that language. It is not necessarily the only one. I learned English in summer camps and Spanish while travelling. One of my kid has learned English in school and by reading. Others go to immersion schools outside of Québec. Poorer people have the possibility to send their kids to schools that have special curriculum. Contrary to what many think, learning English is not such a big challenge for our kids.

AV, if I moved to England, I would not fear sending my 16 y/o kid to English schools.

 

[gugu]

Tec, I am indeed federalist. As most federalist francophones in Québec, as the leaders of all major political parties BOTH in Québec and Canada after Trudeau, I agree with law 101. Of course all of them are also zealots i guess.

Politically speaking, I am close to Khadir who is, as you know, pretty soft on the independence issue. I am not scared about it. It's a minor issue for me.

I did not check, but I would be interested to know how many non anglophone countries in the world offer public funded education in english to their immigrants.

 

[Techman]

I did not check, but I would be interested to know how many non anglophone countries in the world offer public funded education in english to their immigrants.

First of all, Quebec is NOT a country, it is part of Canada. CANADA is an officially bilingual country and Quebec has always had a large English population that more than justifies English schools. Second, immigrants are not animals to be kept as pets so that we can say that we treat "our immigrants" so well. They are people who should have the same rights as any other Canadian citizen and should have the right to choose the language of education in the public school system. But I'm sure that you would love nothing more than to see English public schools vanish from Quebec and this is the easiest way to achieve that goal. I'm sure that if the PQ had their way, English radio and television would also be shut down and the Internet would be censored to allow only French sites to be seen in Quebec. To protect the language and culture only of course.

As for political leaders agreeing with 101, the reason for this is obvious. If they came out against it, they could kiss their career goodbye in Quebec because they would be demonized as being anti French instead of pro freedom of choice.

By the way...I'm voting PQ in this election and if there is another referendum, I will be voting for the yes side. I'm fed up with this shit and want to see them get what they want and then watch them get what they deserve. A separate country with no language laws and rampant inflation and a depression. How long do you think the French language will survive when they are no longer able to force people to work, live and educate their children in French?

 

[Doc Holliday]

I think it will be a good thing for the PQ to run things for a few years as things can't get any worse.

Ha-ha!! Wanna bet? :lol:

 

[gugu]

First of all, Quebec is NOT a country, it is part of Canada. CANADA is an officially bilingual country

There is one bilingual by choice province in Canada: New Brunswick. Manitoba was forced by tribunals and does not really qualify as biligual service wise.

For your info, tec, you are not free to enter funded french schools in the rest of Canada unless french is the mother tongue of one of your parents. I mean, if you want to teach by example, tec, I would suggest finding them elsewhere in the world.

 

[Merlot]

Hello all,

The only reason France got to be France again is because the Nazi's were defeated or you all would be wearing leather shorts, drinking good beer plus speaking German.

STN, this is patently false in the huge majority of cases. Conquests throughout history have most often failed to change the original native language to that of the conquerors. A major example of that failure would be the old British Empire with dozens of countries where the original native language thrives. The success of English, Spanish, and Portuguese in the Americas is due mostly to 90-95% of the original indigenous populations being wiped out by waves of diseases they had no immunity to, and replaced by waves of immigrants. Where the population survives so does the basic elements of the language and culture. Even in countries where there was no national unity for thousands of years like Germany and Italy the indigenous language survived despite many invasions and conquests over thousands of years. The Moors held Spain for nearly 800 years...Spanish is one of the dominate languages today.

I didn't read the 12 pages... obviously, but lovemakers comment in the first page make me cringer and smile at the same time...How he said voting for the PQ was voting for french extremist or something like that.

This is why I find great fault with the key opposition to Law 101 in this thread. There has been a blatant and long persistent effort to demonize those who support the rational parts of Law 101 that seek to protect French culture as hyper-nationalistic extremists in monstrous caricatures of xenophobes. Some of the Pro-English people are very intelligent and yet some very ugly demagoguery has been used frequently despite the fact that those on both sides are in near total agreement that some parts of Law 101 are bad and some are very reasonable and necessary. It's like some are so worried about their worst fears that they refuse to allow their own better sense to make them more rational.



Merlot

 

[Halloween Mike]

Seriously it make me sick to see such comments are some of you guys said. If your not down with Quebec's French, like they say down there, don't let the door hit you on the way out. I guess i am very profound on french because i was raise in a small town that is 99.5% french. Even Sherbrooke wich was always for me the big place when i was young never showed me that much other language. I started seeing it more when i live there, i live in appartements where there was many spanish speaking mexicans who talk in there language when together, but if i talked to them, they knew how to speak french was fine for me. I don't care if asian speak asians language to each other or russian speak in russians and such, but one you work on a job, you should ALWAYS be served first in french in a french province. And yes this is still true in sherbrooke, and for what i saw of quebec city, there too.

But Montreal... its very common i am serve in english first, at least they USUALLY speak decent french when they realize i am french, so its fine but well... I guess having a backpack make me look like a tourist, and dressing ocasionally in soviet union cloathing dosen't help either(and for the ones asking yourself why, because its a tribute to the greatest army of all time, the Red Army who lost 25 MILLIONS to save us from the nazis in WW2) but still... i don't know... i feel french is loosing some pieces in montreal, and i don't want to see it spread to the province.

Like i said i have nothing against immigrants, if they can adapt to quebec's style of life. Would i go live to another country, i would adapt and respect there society and learn the language, its a form of being polite and respectfull of being in there country. Piss me off to see people flee from extremist countries because they fear for there life, or just because they couldn't take it anymore... only to try to turn quebec into that same place they flee from... MAKE NO SENSE.

Canada right now is just a boulder and a chain to our feet, and give a free pass to some people for being lazy and not wanting to learn french because its harder than english... English is so easy it dosen't help french either. But its dumb... i never took any class at all in spanish, yet i can understand 60% of the general meaning of a text because it looks like a "o' version of french... sometimes i joke with buddies saying spanish is pretty easy, just put O to any french word... probleme, problemo and such(but we are joking ) so well im sure spanish is the same in the other way... spanish should be able to learn french pretty quickly.

Then for asians.. actually i have not much complain... most asians i meet speak french, they always adapt super well(the depanneur cliché.... but still) and never cause any trouble.

Anyway i guess we can't be all the same, but denying quebec is indepency is just wrong, and we where cheated at the last referandum... and its sad to say this, but these days, with immigrants having arrive much more, refferandum would not work anytime soon. They are fund by canada... would you turn your back on it if they payed you and granted you stuff? LOL