Election 2012: Will History repeat itself? Union National splits vote, PQ wins power.

[anon_vlad]

AV, if I moved to England, I would not fear sending my 16 y/o kid to English schools.

This is a false analogy. More than 1/3 of Montrealers and about 20% of the population of Quebec are non-francophones. Until Quebec separates, we are in a country which is 80% English.

Those who favor language laws often say that they want Montreal to be as French as Toronto is English. Well, Toronto is only 3% francophone. They would have to get rid more than 90% of the non-francophones in Montreal to achieve that.

 

[Possum Trot]

Canada right now is just a boulder and a chain to our feet, and give a free pass to some people for being lazy and not wanting to learn french because its harder than english... English is so easy it dosen't help french either. But its dumb... i never took any class at all in spanish, yet i can understand 60% of the general meaning of a text because it looks like a "o' version of french... sometimes i joke with buddies saying spanish is pretty easy, just put O to any french word... probleme, problemo and such(but we are joking ) so well im sure spanish is the same in the other way... spanish should be able to learn french pretty quickly.

Then for asians.. actually i have not much complain... most asians i meet speak french, they always adapt super well(the depanneur cliché.... but still) and never cause any trouble.

Anyway i guess we can't be all the same, but denying quebec is indepency is just wrong, and we where cheated at the last referandum... and its sad to say this, but these days, with immigrants having arrive much more, refferandum would not work anytime soon. They are fund by canada... would you turn your back on it if they payed you and granted you stuff? LOL

The "boulder" and chain is paying a heck of a lot of your bills Mike. I guess you aren'y all that familiar with transfer payments. If you think you got cheated on the last referendum I have an idea for you. Let Canada annex Montreal then have your vote

 

[gugu]

This is a false analogy. More than 1/3 of Montrealers and about 20% of the population of Quebec are non-francophones. Until Quebec separates, we are in a country which is 80% English.

Those who favor language laws often say that they want Montreal to be as French as Toronto is English. Well, Toronto is only 3% francophone. They would have to get rid more than 90% of the non-francophones in Montreal to achieve that.

I was answering to your post saying:

How many of us are so brilliant as to be able to pass the final year of High School in a language which is completely new to us?

It was not about demographics, it was about people being scared that their kids cannot adapt.

Of course, there are problems with law 101. I see no point of harassing store owners greeting clients in english in neighborhoods where 80% of the population is anglophone. I see no point in forcing british citizens coming to live here to send their 16 or 17 y/o kids to french schools, a year before they enter english cegeps. If you look into these types of details, you will find some level of non sense. However, the fact that we live in a country where 80% of the population speaks english is by no mean an argument against law 101.

 

[Halloween Mike]

The "boulder" and chain is paying a heck of a lot of your bills Mike. I guess you aren'y all that familiar with transfer payments. If you think you got cheated on the last referendum I have an idea for you. Let Canada annex Montreal then have your vote

Its not about paying bill and such, its about how we are in a country that is way different than US... Thats all... I spended 2 days in MTL and got out a lot for once instead of just seing my SPs and leaving... And honestly... i see so much english im speechless... what has become of montreal? I know the capital is quebec city, but damn the most well known city of a french territory is starting to become not so french anymore... SHIT.

That would be like if in france everybody would speak french but in Paris... that would be an half russian city.... That would be weird.

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

Anyway i guess we can't be all the same, but denying quebec is indepency is just wrong, and we where cheated at the last referandum...

You have to be kidding. Was your wording wrong? Did you mean Quebec cheated in the last referendum as in lost ballot boxes in the anglo areas, only 2 or 3 polling booth with huge line ups in the anglo areas and about 15 in the francophone areas, seniors in francophone areas given bus transportation to polling booths and not the anglo areas. They cheated as much as they possibly could and could still not win.

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

Why didn't you send your kids to french school????? That is not in line with your preaching. I though you believed it was a good thing for franco quebecers to learn a second language. It is not the case for your kids? Taking into account that you also lived in a french speaking city, you had two good reasons. tssssst tssssst tsssst.

Both my kids are perfectly bilingual, I sent them to an English school because it is needed to get the best jobs available, not saying French people do not have the best jobs but a person needs to communicate with many English people in the highend jobs. My kids learned french through their mom, aunts and uncles plus the French class in school. My kids relatives are not lazy and expect the schools to teach them the French language and culture, they are proud Quebecers who pass the info along to their kids. We were at the Drummondville poutine festival last weekend and both my kids were singing along with all the french songs. So do not assume that people do not know french if they are being taught in an English school.

 

[EagerBeaver]

the most well known city of a french territory is starting to become not so french anymore... SHIT.

Maybe another way to look at it is that Montreal is becoming a more COSMOPOLITAN city.......is that a bad thing? Would it be better to be a "French" city, or a "Cosmopolitan" one? What I find ironic in this thread is that some of the same people who are praising the efforts of Bill 101 are also extolling Montreal's reputation as a "cosmopolitan" city. To these hypocrites, I say it is amazing that shit can ooze so freely out of both corners of your mouth....................

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

I spended 2 days in MTL and got out a lot for once instead of just seing my SPs and leaving... And honestly... i see so much english im speechless... what has become of montreal? I know the capital is quebec city, but damn the most well known city of a french territory is starting to become not so french anymore... SHIT.

Montreal is the business capitol of Quebec, it has to speak English. If Montreal was only francophone and no one spoke English there would be a huge loss in business, companies from outside Quebec move branch offices to Montreal and send some of their best people to run the business and they speak English and there are many of them.

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

To these hypocrites, I say it is amazing that shit can ooze so freely out of both corners of your mouth....................

Their asshole is jealous because more shit comes out of their mouths.

 

[Doc Holliday]

lost ballot boxes in the anglo areas, only 2 or 3 polling booth with huge line ups in the anglo areas and about 15 in the francophone areas, seniors in francophone areas given bus transportation to polling booths and not the anglo areas. They cheated as much as they possibly could and could still not win.

Astonishing. Was Karl Rove vacationing in Quebec at the time?

 

[Merlot]

Hooo Boy,

What's wrong with being both French and cosmopolitan? Ever heard of Paris.

Despite the need to find a sensible mutually compensating solution one disturbing trend in this thread is the persistent phony argument by some that it has to be either this exclusive choice or that exclusive choice of solutions being put forward. More disturbing is the fact that bogus divisive views often come from outsiders who have no stake in the daily living situation except where it gets in the way of the purely self-interested and superficial pleasures of some pompous "hypocrites" so lazy and self-absorbed that they try to draft locals to arrange amusements for them. To them I say try to empathize with those who are living through the difficult situation you only visit in.

I have a lot against Law 101, which I find seriously biased in it's strong over-compensation toward French. Having had ancestors who were educated in French Catholic schools providing a strong bilingual education among a significant French Canadian population who were still able to function without disadvantage in a heavily Anglo nation, I don't see why there hasn't been more effort to emphasize a more bilingual/mutually positive direction in Montreal despite the heavy French resentments against previous Anglo biases and advantages.

I can understand resentment growing on both sides because of one bias shifting to another instead of making policies that seek to more fairly protect the interests on both sides. Local people who have to live through all of the problems created by biased laws and regulations have a reason for their resentments. It's too bad it doesn't seem to help them understand those on the other side who feel the same kinds of resentments for the same kinds of biases and disadvantages, but at least they are taking a stand because they have an immediate stake in how the situation directly affects their lives. And yet, despite the emotionalism on both sides there is recognition on both sides that Law 101 has it's necessities as well as it's faults, though the emotionalism and resentments block sensible compromise fairer to all. Solutions about either or only make the situation worse. Stop focusing on your worse fears and resentments and look toward areas of mutual agreement.

Cheers,

Merlot

 

[Techman]

Its not about paying bill and such, its about how we are in a country that is way different than US... Thats all... I spended 2 days in MTL and got out a lot for once instead of just seing my SPs and leaving... And honestly... i see so much english im speechless... what has become of montreal? I know the capital is quebec city, but damn the most well known city of a french territory is starting to become not so french anymore... SHIT.

That would be like if in france everybody would speak french but in Paris... that would be an half russian city.... That would be weird.

I'll gladly offer to buy you a one way ticket to France but honestly I don't think you'd like it there. One of my friends came back from a trip to Paris a couple of weeks ago and was pissed off because he was constantly being served in English even though he is pure Quebecois French. Bummer.

 

[Techman]

Merlot, you just don't get it and you never will. Discrimination is wrong. Period. Full stop. Law 101 has only one purpose: to restrict the English language in Montreal and points west. It is not necessary anywhere else in the province of Quebec. The French language and culture is not in danger anywhere in Quebec. If the restrictions on language of education were lifted, at the very least for immigrants coming to Quebec from English speaking countries and for Quebec's own citizens, it would have zero effect on the French language and culture in Quebec.

By the way Mike...I guess your experiences are different from those of the OQLF - or as I call them, the Apostrophe SS - who found that over 97.3% of Montreal businesses serve their customers in French first and 94% of West Island businesses serve in French first.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Merlot, you just don't get it and you never will.

Of course he won't & he knows it. He's an American, always has been an American, and always will be. I have no idea why he bothers to post in this thread unless it's to simply be a shit-disturber, as several people have pointed him out to be.

Tech, just ignore him & let be. No use wasting energy on this guy.

 

[gugu]

One of my friends came back from a trip to Paris a couple of weeks ago and was pissed off because he was constantly being served in English even though he is pure Quebecois French. Bummer.

This is a gross exaggeration. He was unfortunately greeted in english, but certainly not "served" in english after speaking french. Small business owners are known to be very conservative and to act primarily according to what they believe to be their personal interest. They greet customers in english in tourists places, certainly the ones your friend go to, where few Parisians go. They DON'T do that in other places. I think it is stupid to greet tourists in english, both in Paris and Montréal, the two largest french cities in the world. Do any tourist really feel insulted to be greeted with a "Bonjour" in the old Montréal? It is good for business to be able to serve tourists in english. But it is not a good thing for the image of our culture to greet them in english.

For your info, tec, you are not free to enter funded french schools in the rest of Canada unless french is the mother tongue of one of your parents. I mean, if you want to teach by example, tec, I would suggest finding them elsewhere in the world.

Still waiting for your response, tec. You complained with true deep feelings that we, poor french Québécois, were discriminated against by our own government because we can't send our kids in funded english schools in Québec. What about the anglo Canadians who can't send their kids to funded french schools in the rest of Canada?

 

[gugu]

Of course he won't & he knows it. He's an American, always has been an American, and always will be.

I see two Americans in this thread, Rump and Merlot, who understand quite a lot more about Montréal and the french culture then many of my fellow Canadian citizens from Alberta and Ontario. And please, to most readers from those provinces, do not see this as an insult: I don't consider their views as representatives of yours. Most of you guys have no problems with Montréal being a french city and enjoy it when you come to visit us.

 

[Doc Holliday]

No one understands the french culture more than i do. But really, who cares? Nearly everyone who's posted in this thread thinks they know more than anyone else about this topic, but that's their problem.

Rumples & Merlot THINK they understand the french culture because they sometimes come to Mtl to bang a few escorts who happen to speak french. But do they speak french with the escorts they see? No!!!!!!!!

There is no way that two Americans will ever be able to fully grasp the french culture, nor will they ever be considered a part of it. They will always be looked upon as outsiders, no matter how hard they try to fit in.

That's a fact.

The only person i agree with totally in this thread is Techman. Does it mean our views & opinions are the right ones? Who knows? This is debatable.

Vive la langue et la culture francaise! Vive le billinguisme! Vive le Quebec!! Vive le Canada! :thumb:

 

[Merlot]

Of course he won't & he knows it. He's an American, always has been an American, and always will be. I have no idea why he bothers to post in this thread unless it's to simply be a shit-disturber, as several people have pointed him out to be.

Tech, just ignore him & let him play in his sandbox with his little toys.

Just like yesterday you come in totally off-subject making no contributions like the bitter, hateful, perpetually angry and sick thing you are as everyone on two boards knows.

Merlot, you just don't get it and you never will. Discrimination is wrong. .

Techman,

OMG! Really! Hold the presses!!!

I wrote: "I have a lot against Law 101, which I find seriously biased in it's strong over-compensation toward French." I cited repeatedly the need balance and fairness and the abuses of Law 101 in this thread. If you can associate my post with support of discrimination then there is no hope for you. One-sided people who must put everything in terms of for me or against me are the problem.

Cheers,

Merlot

 

[Doc Holliday]

Just like yesterday you come in totally off-subject making no contributions like the bitter, hateful, perpetually angry and sick thing you are as everyone on two boards knows.

Hah! Look who's talking! :lol: :lol: :lol:

One thing i forgot to post yesterday was that you should be ashamed of yourself for posting stuff said in private conversations between you & the gentleman you were referring to, especially considering that this person whom you constantly attack with no provocation has never once said a bad thing about you. Shame on you!

Vive le Quebec, Vive Canada! Vive la langue & la culture francaise! Vive le billinguisme!

 

[EagerBeaver]

Most of you guys have no problems with Montréal being a french city and enjoy it when you come to visit us.

Originally I did see Montreal as a French city the very first time I visited. Since then I have come view it as a very Cosmopolitan city. I do not think the city has become less French; I believe that as I have gotten to know it better, I have come to see it as more Cosmopolitan. On my last trip, for example, I ate at the Stash Cafe in Old Montreal. The owners are as Polish as some of my ancestors. They speak Polish there (I overheard it being spoken), they speak English with a Polish accent, and I imagine that when they speak French, they speak it with a Polish accent as well. But they are making quality, authentic Polish food I probably could not get anywhere near where I live.