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The Official MERB 2010 Baseball Thread.

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JLB

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The people here who are saying reversing the call would "set a precedent" or open "a can of worms" are forgetting the one unique element I believe makes this case quite different. In effect, the umpire has reassessed the call on infallible evidence and reversed himself publicly. That makes this case separate from every other miscall I ever heard of.

Not only do we have a situation where everyone who saw the replay is absolutely certain it was the wrong call, but now we have a long time veteran and extremely well respected umpire (according to players including Roy Halladay who texted purposely to support Mr. Joyce) saying publicly in the press he cost the pitcher a perfect game. No one in the world doubts it was the wrong call. This is not a case where the MLB has to defend an umpire based on the sanctity of the umpire's call. Mr. Joyce made the need to uphold this decision moot when he went public with the admission and regret over being wrong. If the MLB representative whose judgment was the source of the outcome now says his call was wrong what does the MLB have to stand on. Is it "purity of the rules" that protects errors to the point where it amounts to a blatant lie. In my view if the MLB does nothing they're reinforcing what everyone knows is a nonsense.

Everyone knows it was a "Perfect Game!" Even the umpire who made the bad call says it was. What we are left with is institutionalizing the ridiculous in total awareness, and the full knowledge of everyone. In this case it's not teaching the fans the sanctity of the rules, it's showcasing an indifference for reality.


additionally the missed call would have been the last out of the game and reversing the call wouldn't affect the outcome - final score stays the same. MLB won't change their mind but they've been very inflexible. I kind of understand the can of worms arguments but i think a case could be made for reversing the call on this one - last out of the game, no effect on final decision, just the line score - and a pitchers place in baseball history. But you know he'll likely be better known than some who actually threw and got credit for perfect games.
 

Merlot

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Hello all,

BALTIMORE (AP)

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Red-Sox-11-Orioles-0-95094018


Clay Buchholz pitched a five-hitter for his second career shutout, Marco Scutaro homered and scored three runs, and the Boston Red Sox beat the Baltimore Orioles 11-0 Friday night to ruin the managerial debut of Juan Samuel.

Kevin Youkilis and Adrian Beltre also homered for the Red Sox, who have won six straight on the road.

Buchholz (8-3) walked one and struck out two in his third career complete game and first shutout since he no-hit the Orioles on Sept. 1, 2007. The right-hander is 5-0 with a 0.99 ERA in his last five starts and has won nine successive starts on the road, a streak that began last August.

Samuel was hired as Baltimore's interim manager Friday morning after the team fired Dave Trembley. In explaining the move, president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail said he was ``hoping to ignite a spark.''

It didn't happen against the Red Sox, who led 3-0 after one inning and 7-0 after four.

Orioles starter Chris Tillman (0-1) allowed seven of the 11 batters he faced to reach base. The right-hander yielded four runs, five hits and two walks in 1 1-3 innings, the shortest outing by an Orioles starter this season.

Despite the change in managers, the Orioles experienced a familiar sensation in the top of the first. After Boston used a single and two walks to load the bases with no outs, Victor Martinez hit a run-scoring grounder and J.D. Drew followed with a two-run double.

Baltimore has been outscored 40-18 in the first inning this season.

The second inning wasn't much better. Dustin Pedroia hit an RBI single to chase Tillman and make it 4-0.

Youkilis connected off Mark Hendrickson with two on and two outs in the fourth. All the runs were unearned because Orioles catcher Matt Wieters let a third strike slip through to the screen, a passed ball that allowed Bill Hall to reach first.

Beltre greeted Matt Albers by hitting his seventh homer leading off the fifth, and Scutaro hit a solo shot in the eighth to make it 9-0.


continued...

If Lester is the pitcher on the month for May then Buchholz is right up there. The 1-2 tandem of Buchholz and Lester has not only been unbeaten for several starts each, they have been nearly unhittable for that time. And don't worry that the latest triumph was against the Orioles, the tandem did basically the same thing to the Rays and Phillies among others.

Wakefield has become quite the win-streak stopper indeed.

I've been waiting for the Jays versus the Yankees match-up. Whatever happens it's all good, but sweeter when the Yankees fall. Thanks again A.J..
Dumb_smiley.jpg


additionally the missed call would have been the last out of the game and reversing the call wouldn't affect the outcome - final score stays the same. MLB won't change their mind but they've been very inflexible. I kind of understand the can of worms arguments but i think a case could be made for reversing the call on this one - last out of the game, no effect on final decision, just the line score - and a pitchers place in baseball history. But you know he'll likely be better known than some who actually threw and got credit for perfect games.

True. Galaragga will be better known by being robbed of a perfect game. The upholding of the call becomes almost disturbingly anal when the striking obviousness of the mistake is so blatant and so broadly acknowledged. Now that Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm has "officially" proclaimed awarded a "Perfect Game" to Galaragga the whole episode becomes ever more comical. The most commendable element of this episode has been the integrity of the umpire Joyce, who publicly admitted the error and sincerely apologized to Galaragga. Now that most of the public seems to embrace Joyce almost like a hero for being honest what does that do to the integrity of the MLB if the commissioner let's the situation stand. I don't believe in caving into public sentiment, but Bud Selig is in the position of reinforcing nonsense by doing nothing.

As for instant replay, why do there have to be penalties for using it? Why not just allow 2 challenges per team during a game for any play except for umpire strikes and balls calls. Changing ball or strike counts based on the success of a challenge to a call just seems too "playground" to me. What we want is to get key calls right, not add a dubious dimension that seems so "ticky tack" in my view.

Cheers,

Merlot
 
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Jman47

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Well...frankly it does not matter to me...

Clay "Cy" Buchholz

clay-buchholz.jpg


Or

John "Cy" Lester

jon_lester_throw.jpg


This pair beat a full house of pinstripes any day. What a 1 -2 punch.
And the sweetest part...they are both home grown talent. Now thats a baseball organization that knows what it's doing.

Thanks AJ, and go Jays. :rolleyes:;)

Have fun,

Jman
 

Special K

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Down in lower Boston for the weekend checking out the team. Great game last night all around. Clay was awesome even though he didn't strike many out. 9 full innings and he only threw 100 pitches!! Hopefully get to see the same thing out of Lester tonight.
 

Jman47

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Down in lower Boston for the weekend checking out the team. Great game last night all around. Clay was awesome even though he didn't strike many out. 9 full innings and he only threw 100 pitches!! Hopefully get to see the same thing out of Lester tonight.

Hello SK,

Have fun at Fenway South...wish I were there!
Caught some of the Yankee's losing on YES last night (between Sox pitches...got to admit 11 - 0 got a little boring) ... wow (LOL) what a tremendous road crowd they can still draw :rolleyes: ....looks like appeal is waning a bit for pinstripes.

Boston_Red_Sox.jpg


GO SOX!

Jman
 

rumpleforeskiin

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Congratulations to Mark Teixeira! It's not often a player achieves a 5 strikeout day.
 

Jman47

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Thought I'd add this to the commentary made by others here.
Interesting piece on the Gallaraga controversy...when will Bud Selig ever take his head out of his ass...?

Galarraga's Legit, Bud's Not
By Ron Sen, BDD contributor, founder of Red Sox Reality Check: Armando Galarraga lost a perfect game lin Detroit, what was the 21st perfect game in major league baseball history. Umpire Jim Joyce called a routine ground out a base hit, as though he were unaware of the historical significance of it all... or just oblivious. Joyce was man enough to acknowledge his mistake, apologizing to the Tiger pitcher after the game.

Commissioner Bud Selig has the power to change the error, using the best interests of baseball clause. What keeps him from doing so? Is it tradition, stupidity, possible testosterone deficiency, or fear of opening Pandora's Box?

Tradition and racism kept generations of African-Americans out of baseball. The tradition argument falls apart when acknowledging baseball's current use of replay for determination of disputed home runs, introduction of the designated hitter, changing the field dimensions by lowering the mound itself, and other revisions that have occurred in baseball.

Stubbornness is hardly unique to Selig. Baseball protests about its integrity, yet dragged its collective feet for years regarding drug testing, maybe because "chicks dig the long ball" and their money rolled in. Perhaps baseball fears interminable delays about the purity of the grand old pastime. Has anybody watched a Red Sox-Yankees game lately? Often it's like watching the last two minutes on an NBA game...in perpetuity. Some wanted to crucify Joe West for his keen sense of the obvious. Enforcing an "indisputable" standard works for the NFL, and managers could be given a finite number of challenges.

Are more nefarious forces at work? I doubt that, but if this were Yankee Stadium, and a right-hander named Phil Hughes had accomplished what Galarraga achieved, does anybody NOT think that Selig would be falling over himself to make things right?

I will always consider Galarraga's effort a perfect game. In fact, if fans wanted it to be so, they could simply vote with their wallets, targeting a future game day, let's say Sunday, to boycott MLB merchandise. Can you imagine owners calling Selig, demanding that he overturn the decision lest they lose hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue? Would you like to be a fly on the wall for those (expletive deleted) calls?

Baseball has an empowerment clause about the "best interests." Selig has the power to right the wrong that happened in Detroit. Yet ironically only the fans can make that happen. Money talks... keep you wallet in your pocket, and make Selig squirm and Galarraga the legitimate author of perfection.
 
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EagerBeaver

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JMan47,

Another way to look at this is that Selig refused to overrule the decision in order to force instant replay in baseball to the forefront of topics to be discussed in the offseason. That and the creation of a precedent that would effectively open a gigantic can of worms led to his inevitable decision.

The Tigers won the game. In the final analysis the only thing that resulted from this blown call was that Galarraga lost a perfect game. That is a purely individual accomplishment. But, he still got a one hit shutout and his ERA, WHIP and won-loss is uneffected by the blown call. For all of the above reasons, I agree with the Selig decision and I advocate an NFL type challenge rule being instituted in MLB as previously discussed. The games do not have to be delayed if the challenges are limited and there is a punishment for being overruled. You will only see them exercised rarely.

I can guarantee you that Selig spoke to counsel for MLB before making this decision.
 

Jman47

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JMan47,

Another way to look at this is that Selig refused to overrule the decision in order to force instant replay in baseball to the forefront of topics to be discussed in the offseason. That and the creation of a precedent that would effectively open a gigantic can of worms led to his inevitable decision.

The Tigers won the game. In the final analysis the only thing that resulted from this blown call was that Galarraga lost a perfect game. That is a purely individual accomplishment. But, he still got a one hit shutout and his ERA, WHIP and won-loss is uneffected by the blown call. For all of the above reasons, I agree with the Selig decision and I advocate an NFL type challenge rule being instituted in MLB as previously discussed. The games do not have to be delayed if the challenges are limited and there is a punishment for being overruled. You will only see them exercised rarely.

I can guarantee you that Selig spoke to counsel for MLB before making this decision.

Hello EB,

Screwing an individual out of a lifetime achievement that is rarely accomplished (if ever as some of baseballs greatest never had a perfect game) for political gain on an issue doesn't make it the right thing to do. Particularly when a remedy to correct the wrong is available. Whether Selig overturns the decision or not...the occurrence of the error c0uld still be used to make a case for enhanced instant replay...which by the way I do not believe in.

As for the can of worms...screw that...the decision is limited to this occurrence in which clearly there was a error committed (pun intended). As for the consultation of counsel for MLB...well just like everything in life, everyone has their own opinion and it could be argued either way.

Have fun,

Jman
 
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lgna69xxx

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Mr. Vazquez has been performing much better these days, with another solid outing today he has improved to 5-5 now, not bad after a horrific april/may. in the last 30 days his era is a strong 2.73 and in june so far it is 1.29 (2 starts) ... "Dont Ya Know, Robbie Cano" another 3 hits and 2 more rbi's to continue his "super" breakout season and a strong canidate for mvp even tho it is early still... nice to salvage one win against a very tough and talented Jays team.
 

Merlot

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Hello EB,

Screwing an individual out of a lifetime achievement that is rarely accomplished (if ever as some of baseballs greatest never had a perfect game) for political gain on an issue doesn't make it the right thing to do. Particularly when a remedy to correct the wrong is available. Whether Selig overturns the decision or not...the occurrence of the error c0uld still be used to make a case for enhanced instant replay...which by the way I do not believe in.

As for the can of worms...screw that...the decision is limited to this occurrence in which clearly there was a error committed (pun intended). As for the consultation of counsel for MLB...well just like everything in life, everyone has their own opinion and it could be argued either way.

Have fun,

Jman

Hello Jman,

I totally agree. Aside from the fact that a perfect game has an approximate dollar value to the individual, I believe in merit. He did it he deserves the credit as well as any monetary value it has. Of course whether Galaragga gets credit officially from the MLB it won't change the result of the game, the standings, or anything else related to the "team". Yes, Galaragga is part of a team and he should do what is best for the team. But in this case the decision does not effect "the team" either way, so the team element in this issue is moot. The only issue that matters here is did Galaragga EARN the perfect game? The answer along with the evidence is irrefutably YES.

Relating to how this issue should be treated from an individual accomplishment perspective, for the life of me I cannot understand how anyone who loves Baseball can blithely say "he still got a one hit shutout and his ERA, WHIP and won-loss is uneffected by the blown call." There have only been about 20 Perfect Games in MLB history out of what I loosely and conservatively estimate to be 300,000 games started (about 120,000 in the last 25 years). That's 1 in 15,000 over all. How can anyone imply that the rarest of accomplishments is of so little importance or value to Baseball that it is of little or no consequence to downgrade such a rare accomplishment. In a sport so driven by individual numbers and accomplishments how can anyone be so dismissive. Individual accomplishment is inseparable from what makes teams and Baseball great, and for the fans of many teams that so rarely get to the playoffs it may be the only thing they can take joy in, and often for players it can be all that makes them memorable...see Don Larsen. Yankees fans here would have a different attitude if this happened to him in game 5 of the 1956 Series.

Cheers,

Merlot
 

lgna69xxx

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why is it with 99.9% of red sox fans posts, and in general it seems of all red sox fans everywhere, do you always mention the Yankees and their fans? you dont see Yankees fans mentioning red sox fans nearly as much, jealousy? hate? admiration? .. hey it is not our fault it took you 86 years to win a world series. i am just asking for your opinon, so dont get all upset .


Yankees fans here would have a different attitude if this happened to him in game 5 of the 1956 Series.

Cheers,

Merlot
 
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EagerBeaver

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Merlot,

Your post is way off base. A perfect game is not more important than a World Series championship. Your post insults fans of the 1985 St. Louis Cardinal team that might have won a championship had a blown call not cost them game 6. If Selig reverses that call on Galaragga, then he has to go back to the 1985 World Series and reverse that call, and then on and on we go. It sucks that he lost the perfect game, but it sucks worse for the Cardinals that they lost a World Series. Blown calls are a part of the sport, always have been and will continue to be until instant replay is brought into the sport. Selig absolutely made the right decision. Otherwise he would have been under tremendous pressure to review every fucking blown call in every game for the rest of the year. I guarantee you doing that would have caused a much greater embarrassment for the sport, for umpires and also be a complete waste of time for Selig, whose job is not to review umpire's calls. Selig's job is to do what is in the best interests of the sport, not one fucking guy who was the subject of a blown call. As the rules currently stand umpire discretion is given wide latitude and cannot be challenged, and Selig wisely chose to keep it that way until such time as the rules are changed, which they should be as I previously discussed.
 
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lgna69xxx

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i hate to say this but i agree with Selig, about the blown call, beav is right, he had no choice, it would of opened a can of worms he could never control regarding other blown calls...
 

lgna69xxx

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im having a hard time? not at all, actually it is quite nice posting about the leafs and yanks w/o ppl crying about anything good being said in the "real" baseball and hockey threads, now in the other anything goes threads, i think mod 8/11 said it best when telling people if it got to hot in the kitchen, then maybe they should refrain from reading/posting or grow a thicker skin, i was asking a simple question as to why, and if you dont have an answer, thats fine, if you do, then what is it? personally i think the mods are awesome! and should be paid

Hello Iggy,

I see you are having bickering withdrawals because the mods won't let you "be yourself", so you are posting nonsense to pick a fight. Sorry. You're just being irrelevant...and VERY BORING! Now if you have a real thought...well who am I kidding.

Hugs,

Merlot
 
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Merlot

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Merlot,

A perfect game is not more important than a World Series championship.

Selig's job is to do what is in the best interests of the sport, not one fucking guy who was the subject of a blown call.

Well,

First, I am talking about a call ruling a clear out a hit that does not change the outcome of the game, NOT one costing or changing anything.

His job is also to protect the integrity of Baseball by keeping the rules from being just a joke, and the wrongness of what happened is so irrefutable that the ruling is just a joke. When the facts are 100% clear to 100% of the fans and MLB officials then saying the facts are irrelevant makes the situation a joke. When everyone from the fans to the players to the umpire who made the call and even Bud Selig can see how wrong the call was then the "can of worms" thing is not applicable. As I have said before, if the umpire stuck by his call then the commissioner would have no choice but to back him. Such is not the case. Don't forget that in game 2 of the 1975 Series a blown call cost the Red Sox too, and I'm not suggesting for a review of that call because of this situation.

Blown calls are a part of the sport, always have been and will continue to be until instant replay is brought into the sport.

Sure, there are wrong many things that happen consistently throughout history, but that does not justify any of it. There is no perfect time to starting correcting them, we just have to start doing it and this episode was a good time to start.

why is it with 99.9% of red sox fans posts, and in general it seems of all red sox fans everywhere, do you always mention the Yankees and their fans? you dont see Yankees fans mentioning red sox fans nearly as much, jealousy? hate? admiration? .. hey it is not our fault it took you 86 years to win a world series. i am just asking for your opinon, so dont get all upset .

LOL...that's you, no counterpoint, just a cheap dig. I see you are having bickering withdrawals because the mods won't let you "be yourself", so you are posting nonsense to pick a fight. VERY BORING!

personally i think the mods are awesome! and should be paid

You will need this.
butt-kisser-wipe.jpg


Hugs,

Merlot
 
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lgna69xxx

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hey, enuff from you! lol..... thought you were in Bawlmore, watching the sox lose today?

lemme guess, you broke down and bought a iphone?


Stop being such an ass kisser. If it's not Joe.t, or Beav, now it's Mod 8 & 11. Hahaha.
 
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