Transgender who advertise as female escorts... right or wrong?
- Thread starter Halloween Mike
- Start date
Let me state exactly how I feel.
I have nothing but empathy for transgender people. They are paying a painful price for being born that way.
Having empathy and wanting to get romantic are 2 different things.
Any transgender woman who advertises as a woman without mentioning that she has a man made vagina....is doing false advertising. Period.
As far as our 2 lady friends throwing insults at heterosexual males for no valid reason, well it shows their true colors and a lack of respect to some of their clients.
I have nothing but empathy for transgender people. They are paying a painful price for being born that way.
Having empathy and wanting to get romantic are 2 different things.
Any transgender woman who advertises as a woman without mentioning that she has a man made vagina....is doing false advertising. Period.
As far as our 2 lady friends throwing insults at heterosexual males for no valid reason, well it shows their true colors and a lack of respect to some of their clients.
Not a text person but could never figure out the 
symbol.
As for harsh words from a couple of SP'S, yes. I do not recall any male members calling the ladies ignorant because they did not agree with them, one board member made some comments grouping most women as not being able to be logical or something to that effect... Really.
Anyways, the consensus appears to be that the men do not care what sexual preference a person chooses to be but we want to know what the person was when he was born.
symbol.As for harsh words from a couple of SP'S, yes. I do not recall any male members calling the ladies ignorant because they did not agree with them, one board member made some comments grouping most women as not being able to be logical or something to that effect... Really.
Anyways, the consensus appears to be that the men do not care what sexual preference a person chooses to be but we want to know what the person was when he was born.
On a legal base, a person who does not identify with the sex she/he was assigned at birth can legally change its legal documents (birth certificate, etc) even if that same person did not had reassignement surgery. To do so -- in Québec and many other provinces (it's of province's juridiction in Canada) -- one has to have lived a minimum of two years, full time, in their chosen sex (which means identifying as the chosen sex daily) and get a letter from a health professional confirming that she-he is transgender.
Not all transgendered/transsexual agree with how they should be define by law or on legal documents. Some believe that on I.D., their should be an option for male, female and an X for other, some believe that sexuality and gender are not binary so it should be removed as a whole from official documents, some believe that once they had surgery, they are of the sex they chosen so only woman and man should be an option on I.Ds.
In the last 40/50yrs, gender and sexual preferences have been discussed and studied more than ever, laws have greatly evolved in favor of recognizing people's civil rights (the right to live one's sexual preferences, to gay marriage, to be recognized as transgendered, to have the surgery covered by health care and way more. The understanding of the spectrum of human sexuality and identities is far from over. Within the LGBTQ community itself, not everyone is on the same page about it all. I know transgendered people who do not think the same way about their identity as they did 20 years ago.
Thu I understand that it can be troubling for some, if a person who had its sex reassigned advertise as a woman and is identified as such by her legal documents, I believe she has the right to do so and is not deceiving anyone.
That said, there are no excuse to be violent. It is not because we are "shaken" that violence is justify. I am shaken daily by others belief and behaviors but I do not beat the shit out of them neither threaten them to do so even when it affects me directly and has an impact on the way I can enjoy life. If you guys have doubts when you are about to book an escort and fears of being shaken because you believe that that person might use to have a dick, just ask her. If you are not satisfied by the answer, just pass, there are no lack of escorts out there. Nad if you had an experience with a woman who use to have a dick, had a great time and did notice anything, why not say to yourself: wow, science is amazing, good for those people who are born - more often than not - with such difficult reality.
Not all transgendered/transsexual agree with how they should be define by law or on legal documents. Some believe that on I.D., their should be an option for male, female and an X for other, some believe that sexuality and gender are not binary so it should be removed as a whole from official documents, some believe that once they had surgery, they are of the sex they chosen so only woman and man should be an option on I.Ds.
In the last 40/50yrs, gender and sexual preferences have been discussed and studied more than ever, laws have greatly evolved in favor of recognizing people's civil rights (the right to live one's sexual preferences, to gay marriage, to be recognized as transgendered, to have the surgery covered by health care and way more. The understanding of the spectrum of human sexuality and identities is far from over. Within the LGBTQ community itself, not everyone is on the same page about it all. I know transgendered people who do not think the same way about their identity as they did 20 years ago.
Thu I understand that it can be troubling for some, if a person who had its sex reassigned advertise as a woman and is identified as such by her legal documents, I believe she has the right to do so and is not deceiving anyone.
That said, there are no excuse to be violent. It is not because we are "shaken" that violence is justify. I am shaken daily by others belief and behaviors but I do not beat the shit out of them neither threaten them to do so even when it affects me directly and has an impact on the way I can enjoy life. If you guys have doubts when you are about to book an escort and fears of being shaken because you believe that that person might use to have a dick, just ask her. If you are not satisfied by the answer, just pass, there are no lack of escorts out there. Nad if you had an experience with a woman who use to have a dick, had a great time and did notice anything, why not say to yourself: wow, science is amazing, good for those people who are born - more often than not - with such difficult reality.
I don't think this really works in reality. First of all the burden should not be on me as a client to ask someone if she had a dick. Most natural born women I know would be offended by such a highly unusual question, which certainly implies that they may have masculine features. I know a few women who would slap me hard in the face if I asked that. Like ouch hard.
Second, it's not right to be deceived. Cloudsurf related his experience and I do not desire to have the same thing happen to me. I would consider it fraud, even she has legal documents establishing she is a woman, if she doesn't understand some clients might not want a woman who actually had a dick at one time, but portrays herself as one anyway even if the clitoris does not look like all the other ones you have seen. If fraud is denied in this situation, then I would say that person is not living in reality. WE ARE THE CLIENTS.
This is like car manufacturing defects which you don't notice and may not threaten your safety. Honda just sent me a letter on the problem with the variable transmission in the sport models. I never use that transmission, and I wouldn't have noticed it anyway, but they sent me the letter because it is the right thing to do. The burden of disclosure for a latent issue like this is on the seller, not the buyer.
It's common practice in this business to indicate if a SP has breast enhancements. This is a recognition of the fact that certain clients prefer breasts that are natural or "real", and this gives them an opportunity to make a decision whether to book the SP accordingly.
Don't you think the same logic should apply to a part of the female anatomy that is more directly connected to sexual intercourse? Just as it is good business ethics to indicate that breasts may have been altered by surgery, so too is it essential to clearly indicate if a SP is a post-op transexual.
This has nothing to do with denigrating trans people as human beings - in the same way that expressing a preference for natural breasts is not telling women with cosmetic surgery that they are not "really female" - and everything to do with being honest and transparent in advertising.
Don't you think the same logic should apply to a part of the female anatomy that is more directly connected to sexual intercourse? Just as it is good business ethics to indicate that breasts may have been altered by surgery, so too is it essential to clearly indicate if a SP is a post-op transexual.
This has nothing to do with denigrating trans people as human beings - in the same way that expressing a preference for natural breasts is not telling women with cosmetic surgery that they are not "really female" - and everything to do with being honest and transparent in advertising.
"Time to move on cloudsurf, all the best to you
Well thank you for your kind wishes sweetie.
Its ironic that I recently made your most hated list on your twitter account.
That's OK.....but quoting my posts out of context and jumbled...is being rather dishonest.
Do you have the balls to quote your posts from this thread in their entirety ? I doubt it.
There is no law requiring disclosure of enhanced breasts, tattoos, or poor English speaking ability, but most good agencies make such disclosures so that the client is assured of getting someone who is a good match for his tastes. It should also be noted that while most forms of racial discrimination are illegal, many SPs will not see clients of certain races and place such restrictions in their ads. This has been a topic of threads on this board. In the end it's probably a good thing for both parties so that they know where they stand, legalities aside, since none of this is technically legal anyway.
I see absolutely no reason not to group disclosure of transgenderism with disclosure of enhancements, tattoos, English speaking ability or racial restrictions. The goal of all such disclosures is to maximize comfort level and suitability of both parties to the transaction- and reduce the likelihood of a poor match or disappointed expectations.
I don't see what the big deal is in this thread. Why wouldn't you as a sex worker disclose whether you are male female or a transgender male or female? I think it's the deception that carries the most risk.
According to Cloudsurf's report, simply not true. Cloudsurf, to my knowledge, is just a regular guy and not an expert gynecologist. I suppose a guy who just likes to fuck might not notice. A guy who DATYs, like Cloudsurf, is going to have a front row view- actually a better view than ANY medical expert who presumably isn't licking his patient's pussy. Sorry but I am the same as Cloud in what I like and I will trust his report as opposed to you saying he is full of shit. Does anything you read discuss the closeup observation of ciltoris by the DATY practitioner?
My best guess is, to paraphrase the Bandit:
For the money, for the glory, and for the cock... mostly for the money
:clap2::clap2::clap2:
While I do appreciate EB's legal insights :yo:
this industry is effectively ruled by the self-interests of clients. SP's, and agents
Absolutely wrong...you just failed your anatomy class.
Sharpen your pencil and get a long writing pad and I will be glad to list the differences.
A wise young female escort once told me that when it comes to blow jobs....her nose and eyes go before her mouth.
When it comes to DATY....my nose, eyes and fingers go before my tongue.
I`ve been up close and personal with hundreds of natural pussies and while they are all different.....they all have some things in common that are very different from a man made pussy.
This isn't true. The difference is quite obvious to most of us, hence why some of us don't want to have sex with a trans. Larger hands, broad shoulders, deep voice...I have no idea how a man-made pussy looks, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't feel entirely natural, like enhanced breasts have a different feeling, for example. No natural lubrification, as well. I don't understand how you can argue for it to be ok to mmislead customers like this? Even if you're attracted to transsexuals, wouldn't you want to know first, to experience your fantasy or whatever? I'm pretty sure as a customer that you're against bait and switch, right? How can you be for a blatant case of this?
I can't believe this is about to be my first post in a forum that I have lurked for about 10 years, but the amount of delusion in this thread on both sides is astonishing.
#1 Everybody here needs to stop being brainwashed by the powers that be. Learn about how politics is done and how the "euphamism treadmill" alters language and how it is used to alter politics. Idiot -> Imbecile -> Moron -> Special -> Developmentally Challenged. Negro -> Ni;;er -> Coloured -> Black -> African American.
Transsexuals have their own treadmill which I won't mention here. 'Woman' is the latest absurd iteration of it and it is about as accurate as African American is to refer to Africans. The Morroccans, the Algerians, Tunisians, Egyptians ... are apparently not Africans. Apparently black doctors and lawyers who are 10th generation Frenchmen are African American and not French which usually leads to hilarity when they come to the US and the mass media wants to talk about them.....
#2 Get on a plane out of Canada into the depths of major world City. Observe society. Observe transsexuals. We simply don't have any place in Canada where it can be done - we are too clean - too safe - too crime free - too politically correct.
There are dozens of options around the world, but for the sake of this post Nana Plaza in Bangkok will do. It is probably one of the top 10 sleaze pits of the world. It's also got probably the highest concentration of transsexual prostitutes on the planet. About five stories, maybe 30 bars, half of the bars have trans-women, half of the bars have originally female women. Every bar has a few hundred women dancing on stage half naked with a selection-number on their hip
Walk in. Spend one night. Have a beer at every bar. Observe everything. After your first hour it will all become so obvious which bars have trans-women you will never mistake a trans-girl with a girl-girl ever again.
Watch how girls interact with girls. Watch how girls dance on stage. Watch how girls negotiate with girls. Watch how men negotiate with girls. Watch how girls fight and compete with other girls. Watch how men fight and compete with girls. Watch how men and girls make 'contracts' for the night.
Watch how trans interact with trans. Watch how trans dance on stage. Watch how trans negotiate with trans . Watch how men negotiate with trans. Watch how trans fight and compete with other trans. Watch how men fight and compete with trans. Watch how men and trans make 'contracts' for the night.
Watch the and observe the pooners where are selecting trans girls. Watch the pooners who are selecting girl-girls. Talk to the mama-sans who are running 20 year old prostitution businesses which they depend on for their livelihood.
If you have not got the idea yet, in the trans bars 350 women will be man-spreading, man-splaining, puffing out their chest and exaggerating and telling lies. In the female bars 350 human trafficked young girls will be hiding behind their pole, shyly trying to cover up themselves with their arms under their bikini tops. 18 year old trans-women will be having knife fights in the alley during which 18 year old girls will be having passive-aggressive cat fights in the bathroom.
#3
Trans people come from many different backgrounds.
a)Medical Diagnosis, too many chromosomes, hermaphrodites, etc etc.......and dozens of others.
b)Mental Diagnosis, that they legitimately perceive themselves to be women.
c)People that simply want to get a rise out of society 'cause it is amusing. (ie) Men that wear their paints around their ankles, women who put 20 piercings in their face, Emos, Goths, Marilyn Manson, crossdressers etc etc etc
d)Poverty stricken people at their wits end who simply want to make a buck through prostitution.
e)People that are bat-shit insane and have body image issues. Michael Jackson, Cher, etc etc
f)etc Any number of others shades of black between bat-shit nuts and medical condition.
#4
All advertising is inherently false. Go take a night school MBA and learn why. Whatever the 2017 Truck of the Year is, this is actually a piece of junk. McDonalds hamburgers are always shit and always have been. A real big mac has never looked like a TV big-mac.
Learn how to vet your advertising. 99.9% of the time a simple question like 'am I getting a 1972 size big-mac or a year 2000 mini-big-mac' will get you a correct answer. Advertisers, please understand that some of us are really just looking for a cheap sloppy big-mac and will respect you for advertising honestly.
If 84 people can't tell if a big-mac is a big-mac or a whopper, then it's a big-mac.
#5 Seriously people, get on a plane and travel to countries that have alternate sources of propaganda than the USA&CDN and learn about other perspectives. The Thai's for example are about the most reasonable gentle, quiet, elegant, welcoming culture on the planet. (IMHO) They define transsexuals as a third gender Khatoey (which translates to lady-boy not woman). There are 200ish countries out there and the propaganda spewd by the British, America, CNN, CBC is can be interpreted and discussed by reasonable people.
#1 Everybody here needs to stop being brainwashed by the powers that be. Learn about how politics is done and how the "euphamism treadmill" alters language and how it is used to alter politics. Idiot -> Imbecile -> Moron -> Special -> Developmentally Challenged. Negro -> Ni;;er -> Coloured -> Black -> African American.
Transsexuals have their own treadmill which I won't mention here. 'Woman' is the latest absurd iteration of it and it is about as accurate as African American is to refer to Africans. The Morroccans, the Algerians, Tunisians, Egyptians ... are apparently not Africans. Apparently black doctors and lawyers who are 10th generation Frenchmen are African American and not French which usually leads to hilarity when they come to the US and the mass media wants to talk about them.....
#2 Get on a plane out of Canada into the depths of major world City. Observe society. Observe transsexuals. We simply don't have any place in Canada where it can be done - we are too clean - too safe - too crime free - too politically correct.
There are dozens of options around the world, but for the sake of this post Nana Plaza in Bangkok will do. It is probably one of the top 10 sleaze pits of the world. It's also got probably the highest concentration of transsexual prostitutes on the planet. About five stories, maybe 30 bars, half of the bars have trans-women, half of the bars have originally female women. Every bar has a few hundred women dancing on stage half naked with a selection-number on their hip
Walk in. Spend one night. Have a beer at every bar. Observe everything. After your first hour it will all become so obvious which bars have trans-women you will never mistake a trans-girl with a girl-girl ever again.
Watch how girls interact with girls. Watch how girls dance on stage. Watch how girls negotiate with girls. Watch how men negotiate with girls. Watch how girls fight and compete with other girls. Watch how men fight and compete with girls. Watch how men and girls make 'contracts' for the night.
Watch how trans interact with trans. Watch how trans dance on stage. Watch how trans negotiate with trans . Watch how men negotiate with trans. Watch how trans fight and compete with other trans. Watch how men fight and compete with trans. Watch how men and trans make 'contracts' for the night.
Watch the and observe the pooners where are selecting trans girls. Watch the pooners who are selecting girl-girls. Talk to the mama-sans who are running 20 year old prostitution businesses which they depend on for their livelihood.
If you have not got the idea yet, in the trans bars 350 women will be man-spreading, man-splaining, puffing out their chest and exaggerating and telling lies. In the female bars 350 human trafficked young girls will be hiding behind their pole, shyly trying to cover up themselves with their arms under their bikini tops. 18 year old trans-women will be having knife fights in the alley during which 18 year old girls will be having passive-aggressive cat fights in the bathroom.
#3
Trans people come from many different backgrounds.
a)Medical Diagnosis, too many chromosomes, hermaphrodites, etc etc.......and dozens of others.
b)Mental Diagnosis, that they legitimately perceive themselves to be women.
c)People that simply want to get a rise out of society 'cause it is amusing. (ie) Men that wear their paints around their ankles, women who put 20 piercings in their face, Emos, Goths, Marilyn Manson, crossdressers etc etc etc
d)Poverty stricken people at their wits end who simply want to make a buck through prostitution.
e)People that are bat-shit insane and have body image issues. Michael Jackson, Cher, etc etc
f)etc Any number of others shades of black between bat-shit nuts and medical condition.
#4
All advertising is inherently false. Go take a night school MBA and learn why. Whatever the 2017 Truck of the Year is, this is actually a piece of junk. McDonalds hamburgers are always shit and always have been. A real big mac has never looked like a TV big-mac.
Learn how to vet your advertising. 99.9% of the time a simple question like 'am I getting a 1972 size big-mac or a year 2000 mini-big-mac' will get you a correct answer. Advertisers, please understand that some of us are really just looking for a cheap sloppy big-mac and will respect you for advertising honestly.
If 84 people can't tell if a big-mac is a big-mac or a whopper, then it's a big-mac.
#5 Seriously people, get on a plane and travel to countries that have alternate sources of propaganda than the USA&CDN and learn about other perspectives. The Thai's for example are about the most reasonable gentle, quiet, elegant, welcoming culture on the planet. (IMHO) They define transsexuals as a third gender Khatoey (which translates to lady-boy not woman). There are 200ish countries out there and the propaganda spewd by the British, America, CNN, CBC is can be interpreted and discussed by reasonable people.
Very nice and interesting post Knuckles. You should come by more often.
That said the problem with me is that I already travel way too much for my work. And even when I do, I rarely go to bars and club. And there is no way I will go to trans-club. I am simply not interested. Yes I will never learn how to easily differientate a trans-girl. Really I do expect the girl to advertise as such. Is that really too much too ask?
Cheers,
That said the problem with me is that I already travel way too much for my work. And even when I do, I rarely go to bars and club. And there is no way I will go to trans-club. I am simply not interested. Yes I will never learn how to easily differientate a trans-girl. Really I do expect the girl to advertise as such. Is that really too much too ask?
Cheers,
We can not talk about these things in Canada now as it will upset people, the feel good liberals made it against the law to offend anyone ( new hate speech law ). If someone decided to make a third gender word here they may serve jail time ( the last part is sarcasm ).
Knuckles,
The same media and governmental forces in USA and Canada that spread propaganda and agendas against transgender culture are also against prostitution generally, so you are preaching to the choir somewhat. I have no problem with transgender culture even though I have no interest in it. What I do have a problem with is the aggressive manner in which endorsement is sought by those who have alternative lifestyles, attempting to shame those who don't participate as closed minded and bigoted. In the limited interactions I have had with gay male orostitutes in hotel bars, when their advances were politely declined I was told that I was "not open minded." I am sorry but the fact that I don't want to suck another man's cock does not define me as open or closed minded. And when I read your post, much of which I agree with as we are fighting the same governmental and media forces, I sense the same attempt to shame people for simply wanting to live and experience their own sexual orientation which in my case is purely heterosexual with women.
The same media and governmental forces in USA and Canada that spread propaganda and agendas against transgender culture are also against prostitution generally, so you are preaching to the choir somewhat. I have no problem with transgender culture even though I have no interest in it. What I do have a problem with is the aggressive manner in which endorsement is sought by those who have alternative lifestyles, attempting to shame those who don't participate as closed minded and bigoted. In the limited interactions I have had with gay male orostitutes in hotel bars, when their advances were politely declined I was told that I was "not open minded." I am sorry but the fact that I don't want to suck another man's cock does not define me as open or closed minded. And when I read your post, much of which I agree with as we are fighting the same governmental and media forces, I sense the same attempt to shame people for simply wanting to live and experience their own sexual orientation which in my case is purely heterosexual with women.
Thanks, I'll try but I'm sorta the global type who lives in airports and I don't make it to town as often as I'd like.
No it is not. But society unfortunately disagrees...
Every resume we get on our desks is exaggerated. Half the statements made by political entities are a lie. Half the statements made by the media are a lie. We walk into our local grocery store and the cheese aisle has 25 different sizes of cheese all priced strategically so it is virtually impossible to do the mental arithmetic to figure out which one is cheapest. Both women and men live life as lies; we use makeup, clothing, surgery, to hide our flaws. It's all lies.
If you do not want to be deceived about cheese prices you need to read a few marketing books. If you don't want to be deceived by women - you need to study women. I think pretty much all of this board is pretty enamored with women and uses this board as a tool to study women and determine how to interact with them.
If you don't want to be deceived by trans-women you need to actually go somewhere where trans-women exist and people who have met them exist and learn a few things about them. There are virtually none in Canada - in 50 years living in Canada I don't think I've ever actually seen one. In an average day riding the bus in Bangkok, or Singapore, or KL I will probably see 10. Obviously in Nana Plaza(Bangkok), or Orchard Tower (Singapore), BlockM(Jakarta) , Del Pilar or Burgos Streets in Manila I might see hundreds.
I am not sure if I have a good concluding point here other than many of the people who have posted in this thread are living a a Canadian bubble and are arguing about current North American political propaganda rather than reality. Get on a plane - to anywhere - don't stay in some walled of all-inclusive resort - go out and buy stuff and interact with people. Form your opinions based on interactions with those people, not what you heard last night on the broadcast news.
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