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Thread: With C-36 looming, can we put SPs and/or MPs out of business if we are not discrete?

  1. #1

    With C-36 looming, can we put SPs and/or MPs out of business if we are not discrete?

    I can see how SPs and MPs would get nervous if there is too much talk on the net about them. Is it time to get discrete when we do reviews?

  2. #2
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    Why would SP's or MP's be nervous?

    It would be the customers and the agencies employing the customers who will be nervous.

    This law targets the Demand side of the equation.
    So when will Hillary go to Prison?

    Only the Democrats would have a potential CONVICT as their Top Presidential Candidate. Simply Pathetic

  3. #3
    Well looks like the encounters would be kept indoors more so now once the bill goes through. Dinner dates would be out of the question for some since the coupling would look out of place. This would also affect restaurants/bars and other social establishments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daydreamer41 View Post
    Why would SP's or MP's be nervous?

    It would be the customers and the agencies employing the customers who will be nervous.

    This law targets the Demand side of the equation.
    It's counter-intuitive, but providers have more to fear from the police. If they draw attention, police can scare away their customers and drive them out of business. Police have the right to go to their place and intimidate them in the pretense of making sure they are not trafficked. Tracking down clients is harder and they are more difficult to manipulate since they have rights as a suspect. SP have no rights, neither as a victim or a suspect.
    “Truth, Justice, Freedom, Reasonably Priced Love.”

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Numerati View Post
    Well looks like the encounters would be kept indoors more so now once the bill goes through. Dinner dates would be out of the question for some since the coupling would look out of place. This would also affect restaurants/bars and other social establishments.
    ??? Are you just kidding or being sarcastic? Canada is not going to become Nazi Germany or an ISIS caliphate.

    There will not be a morality police hanging around hotels and restaurants asking if the lady is a hooker, nor will there be spies calling in such things to the police. Hell, it does not even work that way in the Middle East.

    We deal quite effectively in the United States with illegality. There are so few arrests of actual sex workers and johns (other than streetwalkers and obvious backpage stings) that if is quite newsworthy when it does happen. There are two problems in the U.S., the high prices for guaranteed great services and the lack of large organizations like Miami Companions used to be, since the owners of large organizations have been effectively targeted by law enforcement.

    Those trends could certainly happen in Montreal. The trend might be towards more independents discretely advertising and quietly working. Hopefully that will not be the case since the Montreal agency system is fantastic.

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    I agree with Patron. Plus, the more it looks like a real date, the less likely it is to gain police attention. Dinner dates could become de rigueur. Perverts bringing their victims to fancy restaurants does not fit the public's image of human traficking.
    “Truth, Justice, Freedom, Reasonably Priced Love.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patron View Post
    ??? Are you just kidding or being sarcastic? Canada is not going to become Nazi Germany or an ISIS caliphate.

    There will not be a morality police hanging around hotels and restaurants asking if the lady is a hooker, nor will there be spies calling in such things to the police. Hell, it does not even work that way in the Middle East.

    We deal quite effectively in the United States with illegality. There are so few arrests of actual sex workers and johns (other than streetwalkers and obvious backpage stings) that if is quite newsworthy when it does happen. There are two problems in the U.S., the high prices for guaranteed great services and the lack of large organizations like Miami Companions used to be, since the owners of large organizations have been effectively targeted by law enforcement.

    Those trends could certainly happen in Montreal. The trend might be towards more independents discretely advertising and quietly working. Hopefully that will not be the case since the Montreal agency system is fantastic.
    You are being totally naive to make a statement that there are so few arrests in the US. Tell that to the 104 Johns arrested on Long Island, NY. Some were doctors. Sorry, but certain localities target both SP's and customers.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.1361717

    As far as Montreal goes, I bet you see more hotels looking out for guys who receive girls into their hotel rooms. The police may pay a visit only to scare the alleged John from receiving girls. Go ahead and say police have better things to do, but there are slow times in all municipalities and there are areas where it is slow.

    I don't think there will be on going investigates and endless stings, because of this law, but some local police chiefs and mayors will agree with the law and target johns and agencies just to support what they think is right with this law (because they think that way).

    You are correct that in some areas, mostly larger cities, prostitution goes untouched for long periods of time with periodic stings and targeting. But there are areas in which there is very little crime to begin with and if any damn if any prostitutes or johns enter their terrain. I can name several areas that I know of in the East Coast that are relentless against prostitution. You see reports in these areas often.
    So when will Hillary go to Prison?

    Only the Democrats would have a potential CONVICT as their Top Presidential Candidate. Simply Pathetic

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by daydreamer41 View Post
    You are being totally naive to make a statement that there are so few arrests in the US. Tell that to the 104 Johns arrested on Long Island, NY. Some were doctors. Sorry, but certain localities target both SP's and customers.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.1361717

    As far as Montreal goes, I bet you see more hotels looking out for guys who receive girls into their hotel rooms. The police may pay a visit only to scare the alleged John from receiving girls. Go ahead and say police have better things to do, but there are slow times in all municipalities and there are areas where it is slow.

    I don't think there will be on going investigates and endless stings, because of this law, but some local police chiefs and mayors will agree with the law and target johns and agencies just to support what they think is right with this law (because they think that way).

    You are correct that in some areas, mostly larger cities, prostitution goes untouched for long periods of time with periodic stings and targeting. But there are areas in which there is very little crime to begin with and if any damn if any prostitutes or johns enter their terrain. I can name several areas that I know of in the East Coast that are relentless against prostitution. You see reports in these areas often.
    I said with the exception of obvious Backpage Stings. The case you cited was one of the most obvious Backpage Sting in history. I cannot help it if those guys were naive. There are plenty of ways to buy sex risk free in the United States. A lot of people do not like to do it that way because if involves screening and high rates.

    A lot of what you said about U.S. Law enforcement of prostitution is correct regarding small towns and conservative areas. I try to avoid them when it comes to hobbying and I realize that having someone come to see me at an expensive hotel is a lot safer than at a fleabag. The poorer someone is, or is perceived to be, the more likely he is to be arrested in the U.S. in all respects. But I stand by my comments. Almost no john on TER has ever encountered law enforcement. The johns on USA sex guide that caters to lower priced sex workers are a different story. It is not common at all, but if does happen at the lower levels.

    But we are on MERB talking about Montreal providers in the $170 - $250 over hour range. Montreal is a liberal city like Las Vegas, Los Angeles, New York City and San Francisco. There was already a vast difference in law enforcement hassles for sex work in rural Canada compared to Montreal before C-86. After C-86, I am certain that Montreal will still be hobby friendly and the only worry will be whether the big agencies will be hassled. There is no way that the Hyatt, Sheraton and Hilton is going to be spying on their customers trying to help bust Johns. Ain't no way.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patron View Post
    But we are on MERB talking about Montreal providers in the $170 - $250 over hour range. Montreal is a liberal city like Las Vegas, Los Angeles, New York City and San Francisco. There was already a vast difference in law enforcement hassles for sex work in rural Canada compared to Montreal before C-86. After C-86, I am certain that Montreal will still be hobby friendly and the only worry will be whether the big agencies will be hassled. There is no way that the Hyatt, Sheraton and Hilton is going to be spying on their customers trying to help bust Johns. Ain't no way.
    There is no way that you know how hotels and LE in Montreal will react to the new law.

    You have to realize it is a major shift in legality on prostitution in Canada. Currently, sex is legal to purchase in a "private" outcall setting. If the law passes the Senate, sex will be illegal to purchase sex regardless of where you are - in your private house or hotel. Because the law will be brand new, it is very possible that hotels, neighbors, etc. will react accordingly, and complain to LE. Then LE could at least harass persons suspected of inviting known or suspected prostitutes into their hotel room or private residence.

    Remember, previously the police would laugh off or could not respond to a complaint of a person receiving a prostitute into their hotel room or private residence. After the law changes, the police can, and since it is brand new, I bet you that they over react in the beginning. Laws outlawing prostitution in the US are just over 100 years old. It has taken time and history for each municipality to act accordingly. This will be brand new in Canada. There is no way for you to predict how the local LE will react to complaints and how many complaints there will be.
    So when will Hillary go to Prison?

    Only the Democrats would have a potential CONVICT as their Top Presidential Candidate. Simply Pathetic

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by reverdy View Post
    FYI, the rates of arrests related to prostitution have been in decline over the past 20 years, in the States; see Figure 8 on page 4, here:

    http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/aus9010.pdf
    Maybe it is only us old geezers paying for it, The kids of the computer generation consider a HJ as a handshak, and a BJ as a kiss.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Nelson View Post
    Maybe it is only us old geezers paying for it, The kids of the computer generation consider a HJ as a handshak, and a BJ as a kiss.
    Nope, there is a much larger commercial sex market in the U.S. than ever before. The internet changed everything in this area including arrests. Long ago, arrests were made as a result of street prostitution and hotel bar stings. When hookers were easy to identify (or impersonate) and the negotiations occurred outside a hotel room, arrests were easy.

    Now the information is shared anonymously through electronic means, actual negotiation almost never occurs, and techniques such as immediate touching and fondling can be used to weed out cops who are not permitted to engage in such activities as part of an arrest. Fortunately, courts have been an ally by respecting rights to privacy and free speech in the United States.

    Online ads, escort review sites with details of the service available, cell phones, emails, third-party screening, and a system of leaving the pre-set amount of cash in a specified location in the room with no discussion. None of that existed years ago. The hooker and john had a detailed discussion about it in person. If one of the two was a cop, there was a problem. And it was really hard to find out beforehand if one of them was indeed a cop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daydreamer41 View Post
    There is no way that you know how hotels and LE in Montreal will react to the new law.
    The law may be new, but money remains the same. Hotels that are now SP friendly are not going to just give up half their income for the pleasure of enforcing a new morality law. Especially since the law is so controversial. Some Hotels might, in backward places where they will have lot of pressure from population, but not in big cities like Montreal.
    “Truth, Justice, Freedom, Reasonably Priced Love.”

  13. #13
    While no hotel, motel or restaurant is going to willingly risk a relationship with a paying customer (particularly with the possibility of an epic fuck-up since "good" girls now also dress like working girls), here is how it really works in the fucked-up United States in comparing low-end and high-end hotels:

    Law Enforcement to Roach Hotel Owner: We have been conducting surveillance and have determined that prostitution occurs at your establishment. If you do not cooperate with us and spy on your customers, we are going to use our powers of seizure to take your property.

    Roach Hotel Representative: Gulp, okay.

    Law Enforcement to Hilton: We have been conducting surveillance and have determined that prostitution occurs at your establishment. If you do not cooperate with us and spy on your customers, we are going to use our powers of seizure to take one of your properties.

    Hilton Representative: We don't fucking think so. We just might revoked the favorable government rate we extend to you. You personally remember that rate, don't you? Since you used it at Miami Beach last year when you checked in with your family and said it was business instead of vacation.

    Law Enforcement to Hilton: Gulp, okay. Forget all about it.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siocnarf View Post
    SP have no rights, neither as a victim or a suspect.
    Luckily in our system of law you are innocent until proven guilty by a Court of law .
    It is not what law enforcement believes, its what they can prove ,not only prove the crime ,but must also prove who committed that crime ,
    Before being a SP she is a human and entitle to all the rights the Charter of Rights provides, no pre labeling exist .
    A victim has privilege or right not complain about a crime ,if he is not a plaintiff the Police will not be able to go in is house without a warrant or search is things .
    For a suspect ,well he has the right to remain silent and the right to consult a attorney a many other rights .

    Hope everyone do understand their rights


    Good Luck



    Cheers



    Booker

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Patron View Post
    Nope, there is a much larger commercial sex market in the U.S. than ever before.
    I'm not sure about that. The means of communication are more diversified and transparent. It's easier to notice sex work because of Internet. However, I see no reason for the demand to have increased just because more means are available. Sex for free is way more available today then anytime before, especially since the sexual revolution of the fifties and sixties. Also, financial opportunities for women have largely improved with education, shrinking the supply pool. However, recruitment has probably changed over the years, drawing in a more diversified class of women. My impression is that there was a decrease in demand at least in the in the past 50 years (poll comparisons over the years tend to confirm that in France and in USA), and a lesser decrease of supply, leading to a general decrease in price (The Economist published some interesting stats on that a few month ago). The commercial sex market may be larger today, but I think this is explained only by population growth.

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