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CLOUD 500

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You know what? I'm quite fine with me making the first move. This is something you need to learn, but it can be learned.

Cloud500 I know you post in the stripclub section. Do do you know how it feels when you're a client there and all the girls all come to you one after the other with cheesy openings trying to get you to spend money on them? It gets tiring, boring at best, feeling harassed at worst. Well, this is exactly how women feel in a club going out. All men come to them all wanting the same thing. I don't like it, can't blame them to hate it too.

So I must say that now I prefer choosing whom I approach, with the risks associated to that, than being approached by all the wrong ones all night long!
That is precisely why men act like sharks because the women refuse to make the first move. Men are told that they got to chase so that is what they do. If things were more balanced I am certain the aggressive men would tone down. As for a stripclub, part of the appeal is to be chased. If I am at the club with a stack of money to spend and the girl of my choice ignores me well I will just go home with the money in my pocket. No way I will ever chase a girl especially at a stripclub, I find it very insulting.
 
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CLOUD 500

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The best ones choose not to approach!
100% true. The hottest girls are just sitting at the bar waiting to be picked up. These are the most entitled girls. I tend to not bother with them, but they are not all like that. I get approached from time to time from gorgeous girls.
 

Lunaseraphim

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But those are old time gender roles like in a time when women was housewives. This has to change. Women are having their own careers and working and some have managerial jobs and some are in politics. To the contrary, nothing turns me on more then a woman who makes the first move and asks me out. It is the single most biggest ego booster ever.
Yeah for sure, I agree with you! I'm just saying this is perhaps why women don't make the first move. A lot of men here talk about fearing rejection, but everyone is afraid of getting rejected and everyone has abandonment issues. I've asked men out before who had been chasing me for a month, and as soon as I started showing interest they were turned off. Dating is complicated for everyone.
 

Lunaseraphim

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True say for that, which is why I opted out. Not interested in these games.
I'm a hopeless romantic so I still have hope lol .. but dating apps aren't doing it for me. I get it. Nobody wins. A lot of guys think that women have it so much easier with dating, but it's just easier for us to find people to have sex with.. To find someone who will treat us well is very very hard. I often feel better treated by clients than by men I've dated in the past, sadly. :(
 

CLOUD 500

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I'm a hopeless romantic so I still have hope lol .. but dating apps aren't doing it for me. I get it. Nobody wins. A lot of guys think that women have it so much easier with dating, but it's just easier for us to find people to have sex with.. To find someone who will treat us well is very very hard. I often feel better treated by clients than by men I've dated in the past, sadly. :(
I guess that is the difference. Men and women are not seeking the same thing.
 

Flabert

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I for one love dating apps. You just need to use them well, be realistic about who you contact, be realistic about people you are with (don’t be overoptimistic and put all your eggs in one basket) and let statistics play out.
 

Lunaseraphim

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I guess that is the difference. Men and women are not seeking the same thing.
that's not necessarily true, a lot of men want romantic relationships, but one thing i've noticed on dating apps in particular is that very often men are not honest about what they want. some men want casual sex and hook ups and relationships that aren't serious, but they don't say that, and they present themselves differently. there are women who want to have casual sex. people should be upfront about what they want.
I want a partner that will tell me it’s okay to get more cats.
SAME
 

Lunaseraphim

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I for one love dating apps. You just need to use them well, be realistic about who you contact, be realistic about people you are with (don’t be overoptimistic and put all your eggs in one basket) and let statistics play out.
I'm glad they work for you! I've never had a positive experience on a dating app personally.. I've met people I became friends with on apps, but I've never had a healthy or positive relationship with somebody I matched with on an app at all, ever. If you're looking for hook ups and light flirtations it's perfect, but that's not what I want.
 

MCTJ

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I for one love dating apps. You just need to use them well, be realistic about who you contact, be realistic about people you are with (don’t be overoptimistic and put all your eggs in one basket) and let statistics play out.
Letting statistics play out, if you are a man, has been shown to result in failure with a high degree of probability. Good for you if you are in the happy minority.
 
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EagerBeaver

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Letting statistics play out, if you are a man, has been shown to result in failure with a high degree of probability. Good for you if you are in the happy minority.
I don't think that is what the poster means. What he means is that you send out 20 messages and you maybe get 2 dates. That's a high degree of failure for the "happy minority." I had the same experience as Flabert.
 
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minutemenX

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I'm glad they work for you! I've never had a positive experience on a dating app personally.. I've met people I became friends with on apps, but I've never had a healthy or positive relationship with somebody I matched with on an app at all, ever. If you're looking for hook ups and light flirtations it's perfect, but that's not what I want.
It is a classical paradox that women selling sex are often less cynical and more romantic in civilian life than ordinary women. As a result, they often become victims of pimps and other predatory men exploiting this trend.
 

CLOUD 500

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I don't think that is what the poster means. What he means is that you send out 20 messages and you maybe get 2 dates. That's a high degree of failure for the "happy minority." I had the same experience as Flabert.
I tried PlentyOffFish. I had worse odds, usually no replies and not one date. I given up on those sites years ago. These sites are so much in favor for women.
 
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Lunaseraphim

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It is a classical paradox that women selling sex are often less cynical and more romantic in civilian life than ordinary women. As a result, they often become victims of pimps and other predatory men exploiting this trend.
I don't think that's necessarily true, but I definitely think that being a sex worker changed my relationship to dating in fascinating ways. When I first started, like many sex workers who begin their career, I attracted a lot of predatory men.. What's interesting about this is that most things I experienced as a sex worker, I had already experienced dating men in my personal life. I realized eventually that I was normalizing certain behaviours that are not acceptable, and there are things I no longer tolerate in my interpersonal relationships.. I'm learning to communicate my needs and boundaries a lot more clearly.

Paradoxically, I find myself being more lenient of people, including men, making mistakes in my dating life and not being ''the ideal partner''. I tend to date women more often than men and I realized that I was holding women to much higher standards than men, and it wasn't fair to them. I also realized that while I normalized some abusive behaviours that men have, I held a lot of resentment towards men in general and it made me not see individuals for who they really were. :) I have a lot healthier friendships with men too because I've developed more empathy.
 

MmiG

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I wish I could help you more with your situation, beyond saying that consulting a therapist may be a good idea to further explore the topic. A few things that come to mind are issues like fears of intimacy or rejection, low self-esteem.

I just want to say that I agree with you here. Using escort services is not a solution to the problem you are facing. Any short-term gains in self-esteem may not translate in relationship success. Addiction-like behaviors may also develop. Trust me.
I've some traumas with past relationship when I was in highschool
 
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