jimace said:
Bingo...Boisclair doesn't care about Asians or ethnics, only les "pure-laines" - whatever that means.
GG
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Dumont is going to split the vote!
- Thread starter J. Peterman
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Bingo...Boisclair doesn't care about Asians or ethnics, only les "pure-laines" - whatever that means.
GG
Another of GG's empty comment... No traces where it comes from and no idea where it's going either, beside plain and simple shit-stirring.General Gonad said:Bingo...Boisclair doesn't care about Asians or ethnics, only les "pure-laines" - whatever that means.
GG
You're right GG, you have the truth, nobody else but you does. What you say is valid for all, no matter who, no matter the subject. You are an enlightened person who should be reverred. If you weren't born, the planet could't survive. The Y2K bug would have killed almost all of us, 9-11 would have been 1000 times worst. The ice storm of a few years ago would have lasted 1 month if you didn't assist with your immense cerebral power. AIDS would have found a way to creep tru condoms if you didn't experienced with so many SP as you did. You're a God, no, you're THE GOD!! You're omnipotent and omniscient! Hail to GG the great!! Whoever disagree with you should be shot by your personal firing squad...
Happy now? Great reviews, too bad it comes with the rest...
Techman: Ever heard of "group inclusion"?
In this group, there are peoples with "yeux bridés". All peoples in this group are my friends therefore, peoples with "yeux bridés" are my friends. Once in the group, there's no distinction, all are equals.
I repeat, and repeat, and repeat, there's no traces anywhere in Quebec French culture where "yeux bridés" is considered as an insult and, your example coming from France confirm this. If you, Asian peoples or anybody insist on explaining to me the meaning of expression in my own language, I'm sorry but you and whoever else have no say to the subject. You and them were told there was no insult intended, you and these peoples don't want to believe it, too bad for you and them! Personally, I could use "yeux bridés" in my language without intending any insult.
If all these whiners would have just said "Be careful, this expression does translate in a possible insult.", all would be over now but no, some morons started to cry to racism and discrimination without even asking for explanation or listening to whatever explanation was volunteered. No, they wanted, -demanded- an apology for a wrong that wasn't commited. Here's something: DEMANDED. In French, litteral translation is "demander". It's something nice. In english, DEMAND is intended as the French "EXIGER", not that nice anymore! Close to same word but not same meaning, right? So all mean the same, with same intentions, always?
Guess what? I will now refrain using this expression, until I do need some insults directed to some Asian guy. And then, I will even use the English version in order to ensure he understand me!! Thanks for the ammunitions! That's what all you whiners wanted, right?
Stop being racist yourself and stop discriminating against French-speaking peoples. I am insulted by your persistence at ignoring whatever explanation I try to provide you, by your persistance at seeing your point-of-view as being superior to mine without even accepting the possibility I might be right. You are offending me by insinuating my peoples can't think for themself and must resort to you in order to know what they really mean when they speak. You are insinuating I don't even understand my own mother tongue and you are insinuating you know it better than I do. That's not true.
You are discriminating against French peoples. Unless you resort to feelings, interpretations or twisted reality, my previous paragraph is solid. No logical explanation, by pure facts and symantics, can deny it.
I say it again, it cuts both ways.
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Techman said:
I tend to agree 100% with the spirit of your comment, Techman. Generally speaking, we tend to put too much emphasize on people's outward appearance when nowadays it can be essentially meaningless. I've met many Chinese-Canadians, Indo-Canadians and so on who are much more "Canadian" in character than I feel myself to be.
In this case however, I think Boisclair deserves the benefit of the doubt. After reading through this thread I googled a few articles on the incident. My impression is that a more accurate English translation (not the literal translation) for "yeux bridés" would be "almond eyes". While "slanty eyes" is definitely a pejorative term in English, "almond eyes" is almost always used in a positive sense. Therefore, I don't think Boisclair can be faulted for making a racist remark, particularly since the comment he was making regarding the number of Asian students at his university was clearly complimentary.
The only thing Boisclair could be faulted for would be focusing on a physical aspect of a group in a context when it wasn't suitible. For example, a man might say about his Asian girlfriend that "she has the most beautiful almond eyes" and everybody will find the statement perfectly acceptable. But if President Bush says at his next press conference, "I'll take the next question from the reporter with the almond eyes", it isn't going to go over too well. Intent is important, but the context is important too. Boisclair probably would have saved himself a lot of trouble if he had used the term "Asian".
Just a few side observations related to race and language:
--"Negro" is now unacceptable in English and "negre" is totally unacceptable in French, but "negro" is perfectly acceptable in Spanish.
--Until the Communist revolution in China, most Chinese ideograms representing the names of the various minority ethnic groups included the symbol for "dog".
--The term "foreign devil" is still used quite a lot in China, particularly in the south. Many Chinese will insist that their use of the term is not malicious and that it is simply how they have always referred to foreigners.
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General Gonad said:Bingo...Boisclair doesn't care about Asians or ethnics, only les "pure-laines" - whatever that means.
GG
Wow,
Are you in Boisclair's brain?
If he dosen't care about ethnics,then why there are so many in his party?
cosmo
If Boisclair had just explained himself and said that no slight was intended, as I and others have said before, this would have all blown over. He is the one who made the comment and it's not for others to explain it away. It's his responsibility. He refused to do this and went on the defensive. He caused the problem and refused to fix it. That's the bottom line.
Fhb,
I would consider that to be a racist comment just as the term 'gaijin' used by the Japanese would be racist. The fact that common terms such as this have become normal for many cultures does not make them any less racist than when they were first used. I mentioned this earlier in one of my posts.
True but, these explanation don't fit when the goal is to bash "un méchant séparatiste" so, these explanation are ignored. All they DEMAND is apologies. Nothing else will work, nothing else will be eared. And, if there's ever any apology given, they will be used to prove how right those whiner were to complain and how bad Boisclair is. They're going to stress how racist Boisclair is and how much he is now begging for forgiveness but, they won't forgives.Elizabeth said:
THO!! There's nothing to apologize for! But that, they don't want to ear.
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What do you mean JHG?? There's always only 1 possible translation! All is either black or white, always! Techman will tell you so!johnhenrygalt said:
You are right, I ment "apology" Thanks.
Post corrected.
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I would figure that if you swore allegiance to the country in the US as part of becoming part of the government and then broke that oath, you would no longer be in the government. In Canada, the BQ swears allegiance to the Queen and Canada and then they campaign to destroy the country thereby breaking the oath they have sworn. That may not be treason by the strictest definition, but I can't think of a better word for it.
Now as far as the immigrant members of the PQ are concerned...I have absolutely no respect for those who come to Canada, in many cases to escape persecution in their own countries, and are warmly welcomed here as Canadians and then join a party whose sole reason for existence is to destroy the country that welcomed them. No respect at all.
metoo4, things are rarely black or white, they are mostly shades of grey. Unless you are a separatist whose only choice is to break up Canada. There is no grey there. As for Boisclair, I never said that he should just apologize for his words. I said he should explain them and he should also strike that term from his vocabulary while he's at it. IF he did so in LaPresse then he should also do so in the Gazette as well as on television and radio. But the only sound clips I've heard from him are of his refusal to apologize or explain things. He actually refused to offer an apology and stated that he never would.
That's my last post on Boisclair. If people want to continue the same old arguements that he did nothing wrong...go right ahead. If you want my opinion, read my previous posts.
Now as far as the immigrant members of the PQ are concerned...I have absolutely no respect for those who come to Canada, in many cases to escape persecution in their own countries, and are warmly welcomed here as Canadians and then join a party whose sole reason for existence is to destroy the country that welcomed them. No respect at all.
metoo4, things are rarely black or white, they are mostly shades of grey. Unless you are a separatist whose only choice is to break up Canada. There is no grey there. As for Boisclair, I never said that he should just apologize for his words. I said he should explain them and he should also strike that term from his vocabulary while he's at it. IF he did so in LaPresse then he should also do so in the Gazette as well as on television and radio. But the only sound clips I've heard from him are of his refusal to apologize or explain things. He actually refused to offer an apology and stated that he never would.
That's my last post on Boisclair. If people want to continue the same old arguements that he did nothing wrong...go right ahead. If you want my opinion, read my previous posts.
Elizabeth, I rarely have the time or the inclination to read every newspaper every day. Usually I only check out the Saturday editions during lunch, primarily the Gazette and LaPresse. I don't doubt there was an article in La Presse but he should have called a news conference for an issue this important and he should have made sure that it got the coverage it deserved.
These are my reasons why I already voted Liberal.
Elizabeth,
I have met my share of ribid hardcore PQist that have told me go back to english Canada, and that I hould vote their way because "We let you into this province". It is these hard core elitist that will run the PQ or will have a big say in how things are done if they get into power. Seperatism is dying a slow agonizing death, the young people realize that they live in a world economy. It is the old farts left over from the 60s and 70s that are the troble makers, and they are led along by the Quebecois that have fame and money.
Kepler,
Yes, Quebec does have a large bureaucracy, but this province will have to follow the trend of other provincial and state govenments to reduce government involvment in every aspect of our lives. In the past the PQ were the worst offenders of using the "make work" projects to give jobs almost exclusively to the Quebecois, or to make work by giving jobs to 2 people to do the job that can be done by one person.
It is the Liberals that will change Quebec for the better and not just try to appease the population with promises. The track record of the Liberals speak for itself. Even though unpopular, the deficeit has been greatly reduced under the Liberal government in their last term. More of the same is the RX for a better future.
Elizabeth,
I have met my share of ribid hardcore PQist that have told me go back to english Canada, and that I hould vote their way because "We let you into this province". It is these hard core elitist that will run the PQ or will have a big say in how things are done if they get into power. Seperatism is dying a slow agonizing death, the young people realize that they live in a world economy. It is the old farts left over from the 60s and 70s that are the troble makers, and they are led along by the Quebecois that have fame and money.
Kepler,
Yes, Quebec does have a large bureaucracy, but this province will have to follow the trend of other provincial and state govenments to reduce government involvment in every aspect of our lives. In the past the PQ were the worst offenders of using the "make work" projects to give jobs almost exclusively to the Quebecois, or to make work by giving jobs to 2 people to do the job that can be done by one person.
It is the Liberals that will change Quebec for the better and not just try to appease the population with promises. The track record of the Liberals speak for itself. Even though unpopular, the deficeit has been greatly reduced under the Liberal government in their last term. More of the same is the RX for a better future.
Again, the irony here is that separatists are accused of treason and of wanting to breakup the country by those (English Canada) doing their very best to keep that dying separatist option alive. English Canada is the separatists best friend.
If there were a trial, English Canada would be convicted of guilt by association, or is that guilt by stupidity?
If there were a trial, English Canada would be convicted of guilt by association, or is that guilt by stupidity?
Actually they are in government, have actually been the loyal opposition at one point, they have never held power however. They also originally said that they would never serve more than two terms or accept a government pension, both items they have since changed their mind on.
As for the oath of allegiance, I admit my mistake. There were talks about ammending it at one point to include Canada and I guess that fell through.
Constitutional ammendments...Quebec has never signed it but they continue to benefit from it. As far as treasonous acts...before the last referendum, letters were sent out to Quebec based military units asking them to back a separate Quebec in the case of a yes vote. This bordered on treason, asking a country's troops to betray the country they served, and it was eventually swept under the rug.
I do tend to get a little carried away where separatists are concerned. I love my country and am not ashamed to say that I despise those who are trying to destroy it. I apologize for my errors but not for the spirit of my post.
Edit: JustBob, I vote for guilt by stupidity.
Just a quick note...why does everyone who stands up for Canada have to be called a federalist? There are many things I would change about the way the federal government does things. And although I could be called a pur laine Quebecois by birthright, I refuse to behave like a sheep being led to the slaughter by the shepherds of Quebec. I am a Canadian, pure and simple. My country is Canada, my province is Quebec and my city is Montreal. Anyone who doesn't like it here is free to leave.
Maxima said:
Maxima,
As an American who has no vote in this matter and pays no income taxes in Canada, I wonder if you can answer for me a few questions that me and my fellow Americans have:
1. Will it make any difference to our hobbying and tourist activities in Quebec if the yes votes prevail in the next referendum, and Quebec becomes a sovereign nation?
2. Is a sovereign Quebec a good thing for the USA? If so, why?
3. Is there anything we Americans should be concerned about? Will anything change at the border?
Thank you for your consideration of these questions.
EB, I know you didn't direct the question to me but here are my answers anyways...
1) Better learn how to speak french as english will probably be banned completely. But due to the depressed economy that would follow separation, you should be able to get girls for about 10$ US an hour.
2) It will be great for the states that buy hydro power from Quebec. They'll probably be giving it away just to keep the US as friends.
3) It should be great at the border. Just slip the guard a 20 and they'll let you come and go as you please. But considering that they will need to boost their population after the exodus of anglos and allos, and the low birth rate here, you never know who the immigration dept will let in. You may even catch Osama when he comes in for the free health care.
Just kidding. Osama would never come here...it's too cold in the winter.
1) Better learn how to speak french as english will probably be banned completely. But due to the depressed economy that would follow separation, you should be able to get girls for about 10$ US an hour.
2) It will be great for the states that buy hydro power from Quebec. They'll probably be giving it away just to keep the US as friends.
3) It should be great at the border. Just slip the guard a 20 and they'll let you come and go as you please. But considering that they will need to boost their population after the exodus of anglos and allos, and the low birth rate here, you never know who the immigration dept will let in. You may even catch Osama when he comes in for the free health care.
Just kidding. Osama would never come here...it's too cold in the winter.
Maxima said:I agree with you whole heartly. That's why I will vote for PQ and will vote yes in the next referendum. Once we have our own country none of these problems will exist anymore. We are not here for a popularity contest, we're here to form a country for our nation...Believe me, those who come here to steal our jobs and call us "mechant" will, in no time, learn to stay in their places, keep quiet and show us respect. Enough is enough!
A perfect example of the 'inclusiveness' of the Quebecois society.
And that was Techman's biased opinion, based on scarecrow ideas touted by federalists since eons but not backed by any facts.
Since Techman chimed-in, why not me?
1- I don't see why it would make a difference. Even better, the English Canada is way more conservative than Quebec so, prostitution would then have a better chance to get decriminalized. Quebec's economy is on par, even superior to some European countries (not talking east Europe here) and, Quebec government being able to negociate directly with other countries (someting Canada often denies us the right to do at this time) and ourself controlling all our import/export regulations, international commerce can only work better, unless Canada try to blackmail us.
2- What do you mean by good?
3- US citizens won't become more dangerous to Quebec than they are to Canada. If the USA doesn't show hostility towards an independant Quebec, there won't be any reason to make border crossing/goods trading more difficult. If you look at Europe, all the countries are independant and they don't even have custom boots anymore! Techman's bribing Quebec guards is totally nonsense and an insult to Quebec peoples. As far as Anglos and Allos leaving, the ones who will, probably not many anyway, will be the ones that have no respect for Quebec. As we stand now, minorities in Quebec are better treated than anywhere in Canada. Proof of this? Me, speaking French, I won't survive long in Toronto or Regina, even in Vancouver where Asians are getting the lead on 2nd language. I am certain EB, you have no problems in English while visiting Montreal, and could probably survive almost anywhere without any French. Certainly, there's a few places where it can be more difficult but now, even in Saguenay, where English and Spanish were easily confused 30 years ago, you can still find bilingual peoples who will help you.
That's about it!
Since Techman chimed-in, why not me?
1- I don't see why it would make a difference. Even better, the English Canada is way more conservative than Quebec so, prostitution would then have a better chance to get decriminalized. Quebec's economy is on par, even superior to some European countries (not talking east Europe here) and, Quebec government being able to negociate directly with other countries (someting Canada often denies us the right to do at this time) and ourself controlling all our import/export regulations, international commerce can only work better, unless Canada try to blackmail us.
2- What do you mean by good?
3- US citizens won't become more dangerous to Quebec than they are to Canada. If the USA doesn't show hostility towards an independant Quebec, there won't be any reason to make border crossing/goods trading more difficult. If you look at Europe, all the countries are independant and they don't even have custom boots anymore! Techman's bribing Quebec guards is totally nonsense and an insult to Quebec peoples. As far as Anglos and Allos leaving, the ones who will, probably not many anyway, will be the ones that have no respect for Quebec. As we stand now, minorities in Quebec are better treated than anywhere in Canada. Proof of this? Me, speaking French, I won't survive long in Toronto or Regina, even in Vancouver where Asians are getting the lead on 2nd language. I am certain EB, you have no problems in English while visiting Montreal, and could probably survive almost anywhere without any French. Certainly, there's a few places where it can be more difficult but now, even in Saguenay, where English and Spanish were easily confused 30 years ago, you can still find bilingual peoples who will help you.
That's about it!
metoo4 said:
I meant would this be beneficial to the USA, as compared to the current arrangement with Provincial Quebec?
I guess we need some stuff USA have and you guys need some stuff we have so, whatever work now would still work later. Would the USA be allowed to consider Quebec as a new state? I certainly hope not! USA would't be allowed to do as they please in Quebec but being fair partners and neighbor, why not!
USA would't be allowed to do as they please in Quebec but being fair partners and neighbor, why not!EagerBeaver said:
Possibly over the medium term. An indication of this is that the Quebec appeals court upheld the idea that lap dances were illegal, and the (Federal) Supreme court overturned it. So while the society at large in Quebec is more liberal, the political/legal instances may be more prudish. This may be reflected should Quebec scrap the (federal) Criminal code and adopt a new (rewritten) one.
As someone else noted, in the short term, a depressed economy will probably lower prices, especially after the Canadian currency slips vs. the greenback.
EagerBeaver said:
Any political instability in a close neighbor will be of concern to the USA, especially when Hydro power vital to the North Eastern states is generated on land whose ownership would become hotly contested. Disturbances in the very well armed indian reserves straddling the border (known cigarette, drug and arms smuggling areas) will also no doubt be of concern.
The possibility of civil strife, while low, cannot be entirely discounted due to the probable razor thin majority, unclear question usually asked, and severely lopsided distribution of the votes. (I note with interest the former premier's attempt to seize Canadian military bases when he thought he was about to win the vote last time.)
On the other hand, it would also present the US with great opportunities to renegotiate trade agreements (NAFTA, etc.) on even better terms, and would give it a much stronger hand in international disputes with what remains of Canada (Northwest passage, etc.).
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