Dumont is going to split the vote!

[Techman]

unless Canada try to blackmail us.

The way Quebec has been blackmailing the rest of Canada for decades by using the threat of separation as a way to get what it wants?

Quebec's economy is on par, even superior to some European countries

At the moment it is, yes. As part of Canada. I love the way separatists try to claim that nothing will change...they will still get money from Canada, they won't have to pay off their share of the national debt, the economy won't change, etc... It's difficult to see how a country of under 7 million once some people leave, less than New York city, will have any clout at all when surrounded by the US and the remainder of Canada which would still have about 25 million population. Where is the buying power? Where is the bargaining power?

I have yet to see any convincing arguments of any kind by separatists about what they would gain by seceding from Canada. Not one, other than "we deserve our own country". And they can't even tell me why they deserve it. And they certainly never admit that there will be a stiff cost to pay for leaving. But of course, that will be due to Canada's wanting revenge. Yeah right.

EB, seriously I don't believe that anything much would change for the US. Quebec would have to apply for admittance to the free trade agreement. New treaties and agreements would have to be drawn up among the three countries as well as with the Native Peoples. But overall nothing much would change for the average American citizen coming here. The Canadian dollar would probably bottom out for a time which would give you more bang for your buck though.

 

[joelcairo]

Aww come on Techman, don't be so negative. A sovereign Quebec will be Paradise on Earth - I know, because that's what all my separatist friends tell me. Of course, they don't tell me HOW or WHY it will be Paradise, and of course they seem to avoid any and all economic explanations, but they wouldn't be lying to me would they?

And one other bonus in an independent Quebec: we would never have to worry about our fearless leader showing weakness by apologizing. No sir, he would show the world just how tough we are in Quebec, and if it ever came to war, we Quebecois would fight our attackers with all the proud, fierce strength of our strong and powerful Quebec army. Damn straight the world will learn to respect us in our independent Quebec. We'll show them, we'll show them all!

 

[J. Peterman]

Wasn't there a squad of Quebec commandos in WW2?

They formed a unit and quickly headed up into the Laurentiens to hide till the war was over!

 

[DavidWeb]

Ok ! let me see... I am so intelligent, so smart that I can say what will happen if what's his face does what they say or if we vote for anyone and if Quebec gets out of Canada or Canada out of Quebec, bla bla bla, etc...

http://www.tetesaclaques.tv/video.php?vid=62

 

[J. Peterman]

If Quebec leaves Canada.......................

......................The worse thing that will happen is not that all the head offices and investors will leave, there are very few left. You will hear the amazing sucking sound of brains being sucked out of the province.

 

[Ben Dover]

Didn't the Quebecois have their own country before? I believe it was called "France" and it's still there, just as xenophobic as ever, waiting for all of the failed separatists to come back. Since then new lands were claimed, wars were won and lost and today we have a new map.

Live with it. Make something of it. Do something useful.

BD


PS: Many people like me will do anything and everything in our power to prevent Quebec from separating. If one day we fail, well then see you later. I'll take my money and jobs with me when I leave. I'd only return to make cash (no tax) donations to fine Quebecoise SPs. They shouldn't suffer just because their parents are narrow-minded fools.

 

[voyageur11]

They formed a unit and quickly headed up into the Laurentiens to hide till the war was over!

This is insulting peterman my dad spend 5 years in the navy fighting the germans

 

[JustBob]

Isn't it fun to waste ink and bile on something that will never happen. Might as well discuss alien abductions.

But since we're at it, I don't really give a hoot one way or another. Heck I haven't voted in any election for decades... I've always found the concept of patriotism terribly silly, considering that where you are born is entirely a chance event. I live in Montreal because I like it, not because I feel some sort of irrational attachment to Quebec and/or Canada. If I stop liking it, I'll just move.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Isn't it fun to waste ink and bile on something that will never happen. Might as well discuss alien abductions.

Realistically, will the referendum happen, or is it as remote as me being abducted by aliens? It did happen once in 1995, and I have not been abducted by aliens since 1995.

I would like to hear commentary on this. What's more likely to happen, a referendum or the Canadiens winning the Stanley Cup this year?

 

[Techman]

Alien abductions? Now there's an idea for a thread!

Any Raelians here?

 

[Kepler]

Realistically, will the referendum happen, or is it as remote as me being abducted by aliens?

It happened in 1980, separation was voted down.
It happened in 1995, separation was voted down.

The PQ has said that should they win the next election (unlikely) they will hold a third one.

A referendum in the next year (probably 4) is unlikely. A referendum sometime in the next 10-15 years (2-3 elections) is almost a certainty, as the PQ will one day return to power.

 

[Techman]

A referendum sometime in the next 10-15 years (2-3 elections) is almost a certainty, as the PQ will one day return to power.

It's like having a kid that stays 2 years old. The terrible twos. You know...gimme, gimme, gimme...never satisfied, crying and screaming all the time, always wants his way. It just never ends.

 

[metoo4]

In WW2, there was, and still is, the Royal 22nd, and these were known to be among the bravest.
JP's comment is VERY insulting. I have uncles who fought in WW2. They saw and did thing that stayed with them till they died, things that had nothing to do with a walk in a park, all in order to keep us safe.

I can't believe all the insanity I read here! All propaganda that have no ground to stand on.
- All "brains" leaving! Come on!! They have enough brains to be where they feel good. And there's no difference why Quebec would not still do the job for them after becoming independant.

- Companies leaving: How much does it cost to move a head office? LOTS! Why would they move? No reason whatsoever! The needs they are now filling will still be there, the peoples they do business will still be there, the laws won't changes in a matter of minutes and when they do, if they do, business will have a say. Why? Because an independant Quebec won't do anything to push them away, same as it is now.

Problems with Quebec independance will start when peoples and companies who don't have any guts and no vision start leaving. Then, more companies and peoples will see this and say "the boat is sinking" and also leave. Pretty simple, isn't it?

Peoples who don't want independance just have to create a panic strong enough to start the dominos falling. But if peoples and companies are smart enough to resist the scare tactics, nothing bad will happen.

Peoples who say companies will leave make no sense. Why? Because there are companies in every country! If it would be that bad to be in various country, they would all move to one country! If Quebec becomes independant, unless the panic catch-on, it will be business as usual and there's no reason it would change. Quebec would become a country like any other.

If the scare tactics would stop, if all the illogical thing that were used against the "oui" in the last referendum were admitted to be wrong, there would be no problems after a winning referendum and after separation.

Last referendum, peoples were saying the question wasn't clear. It was totally clear! Only some peoples didn't want to understand it, same way as the "yeux bridés" explanations before here. There's nothing more difficult to understand than something you don't want to.

 

[Techman]

Referendum will be held as many times as it will be needed until the inevitable victory of the Yes side then no more referendum will be allowed. Therefore vote PQ now, vote Yes in the next referendum and there will be no more referendum to worry about.

Damn! Wouldn't it be nice if sports worked the same way? We play until we win and you lose. Then it's game over. I love it when it's only one side that makes the rules. Bunch of idiots.

How about we solve the problem my way? We just take all the separatists and line them up against the wall and shoot them. Poof! No more referendum problems!

I'd say that both ideas are just as ridiculous and have an equal chance of happening.

 

[Cosmo]

meetoo4,

I agree with most of what you' ve said.
I work in a steel manufacture.
We sell steel products the world around and clients are satisfied with our product.Now I don't see why they should be less satisfied with our product if we'd be independent.
The company would still be the same,the employees the same with the same product coming out at the end of the line.

cosmo

 

[Techman]

Last referendum, peoples were saying the question wasn't clear. It was totally clear! Only some peoples didn't want to understand it, same way as the "yeux bridés" explanations before here. There's nothing more difficult to understand than something you don't want to.

The question was clear? Clear to who? The twits who wrote it?

Do you agree that Quebec should become sovereign, after having made a formal offer to Canada for a new economic and political partnership, within the scope of the bill respecting the future of Quebec and of the agreement signed on June 12, 1995?

A bill that was passed in Quebec by a separatist government and an agreement that was signed by three separatist parties, that was made to seem that it was agreement between Quebec and Canada. That question was a joke.

Separatists are too chicken shit to ask a clear question. The response would destroy their little pipe dream once and for all.

ASK A CLEAR QUESTION!!! 'Do you wish to separate from Canada and form a country called Quebec with no political or financial ties to Canada' Is that so difficult? Or is it not clear enough for you?

 

[metoo4]

Incredible the amount of nonsense on this thread!

In WW2, there was a Canadian military group based in Quebec City, who was composed almost exclusively of Quebecois. It was the Royal 22nd. It did go to Europe and was known to be among the bravest. They still are based in QC City but I don't know if still mainly French.

JP, you are insulting. I had uncles who fought during WW2. They came back with memories ot things they saw and did who haunted them till they died, and it wasn't memories of walks in parks. They endured all this till their death, under the umbrella of what they did was to protect us. You can please keep that type of rant to yourself.

If some federalist would stop spreading lies and present the truth, independance would be easy. It's very simple for them: paint an apocalyptic picture based on IFs and scare peoples as much as possible. Then hopefully they won't accept independence. And if they do, they'll be so scared they'll start a domino effect and destroy Quebec by leaving and scaring even more peoples. If all stay calm, all would be good.

 

[Kepler]

All "brains" leaving! Come on!! [...] Companies leaving: How much does it cost to move a head office? LOTS!

Fact is that after the 1980 referendum, many many companies did in fact leave Montreal and move to Toronto. So did many professionals. In both cases, the stated reason was the political instability of Quebec

Fact is that after the 1995 referendum, more companies left and Montreal's economy suffered terribly (much more than the rest of Canada). As an example, you see cranes putting up new buildings everywhere in Montreal today. I remember in 1995-1998 there was not a single crane to be seen on the sky line.

laws won't changes in a matter of minutes and when they do, if they do, business will have a say.

Fact is that many sovereignists are also mid-to-far left wingers. Businesses have much to fear.

Not to mention that Quebec gets billion$ more from the federal government than they give to it, due to the equalization payments that other provinces make to us. This money would vanish if Quebec split. Plus we would be stuck with some share of Canada's national debt.

Last referendum, peoples were saying the question wasn't clear. It was totally clear! .

The Crees were asked a clear question in a separate referendum on 24 October 1995: "Cree voters were asked: "Do you consent, as a people, that the Government of Quebec separate the James Bay Crees and Cree traditional territory from Canada in the event of a Yes vote in the Quebec referendum?"

The Crees voted 96.3% to stay with Canada.

The Inuit were asked "Do you agree that Quebec should become sovereign?" 96% voted against Quebec’s becoming sovereign.

Now that's what I call clear questions and clear majorities. What will Quebec do if similar results happen in a third referendum? Will the PQ send in the troops? Remember that many Indians are better armed than any provincial police force.

[ http://tinyurl.com/3y97b5 ]

 

[Techman]

If some federalist would stop spreading lies and present the truth, independance would be easy. It's very simple for them: paint an apocalyptic picture based on IFs and scare peoples as much as possible. Then hopefully they won't accept independence. And if they do, they'll be so scared they'll start a domino effect and destroy Quebec by leaving and scaring even more peoples. If all stay calm, all would be good.

Why can't the separatists, any separatist, explain what will be better in an independant Quebec? Why do they insist on saying that nothing will change when even their former leader, Parizeau, stated that it may be necessary to suspend civil rights in the wake of a winning referendum and that there would be hard years ahead afterwards? Stay calm...my ass.

And by the way...my father was in the Royal 22nd and fought in WWII. I still use his cigarette case with the regiment's emblem on it. He fought and lived, many others died. They died fighting for Canada and they would be ashamed of those who are now trying to destroy it.

 

[Kepler]

If some federalist would stop spreading lies and present the truth, independance would be easy.

Hmmmm... the 1995 referendum talked about a "new partnership", and not about independence. That didn't matter to the premier at the time, who said that what mattered most was to get a majority vote because with that, Quebecers would be trapped "like lobsters thrown in boiling water".

As a side note, surveys conducted at the time of the referendum showed that huge numbers "yes" voters thought that they would retain the Canadian passport after a "yes" win. Yeah, tell me again that the question was clear and that the separatists are honest.