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purplem

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Yes the worse they are the more the corrupt Republican party loves them. Examples: Donnie "Fight Like Hell" Trump, Ronnie "The Hell with Science" DeSantis, Spineless Kevin McCarthy, Spineless Mike Pence, Marjorie Taylor "QAnon" Greene, Lauren "Six-Gun" Boebert, Matt "I Like 'em REALLY Young" Gaetz, Jim "Never Mind the Abuse" Jordan, Lindsay "Use My Own Words Against Me" Graham, Ted "Cancun" Cruz, Moscow Mitch, Josh "Watch How Fast I Can Run" Hawley, Madison "Just One More Drink" Cawthorn, Greg "Ship 'em Out" Abbott, Rand "My One Goal in Life Is to Get Fauci" Paul, Ron "Nobody" Johnson, Kari "They Stole the Election From Me" Lake, Herschel "I Was Tackled WAY too Many Times" Walker,...and SO many other deplorables in this collection of fools, losers, crooks, scumbags and traitors.

Santos has a GREAT future because he selected the perfect party for people like himself.
 

Carmine Falcone

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So, Churchill was also a weak leader when he in the same manner came to US at the end of December 1940, i.e., in the “darkest” hour “abandoning” his country by your definition? Let me also remind you this famous Churchill quote: “An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile-hoping it will eat him last.” If Russia wins, we may face combined Chinese-Russian military machine in 5-10 years, and this might be much worse than German-Japanese axis. Money is nothing in comparison to the real blood sacrifice and US is spending so far fraction of what Afghan and Iraq war has drained for the same period of time.
Excellent points. But it's not just Churchill.

The same people that will be quick to thump their chest about how "US & A #1 country in the world" don't understand how America fashioned itself to be world police after World War 2. But these are same people who learned all of the world's complex geopolitics from a guy that couldn't identify a single country on a world map. It is no small coincidence that other countries look to the US. (If Ukraine had joined NATO, we'd be even more on the hook than we are).

To your point about if Russia wins, the same people mentioned above also don't understand one of the many reasons Reagan achieved saintly status was being credited (justly or unjustly) for the collapse of the Soviet Empire. Once upon a time, Republicans were against totalitarianism and authoritarianism. It's stunning that freedom-loving conservatives would be indifferent or even support the invasion of a sovereign country like Ukraine. But when Russia is the model country for their worldview (i.e. an illiberal and corrupt democracy) and when Zelensky didn't go along with Trump's bribery, it all starts to make sense why conservatives are piling on Zelensky.
 

minutemenX

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To your point about if Russia wins, the same people mentioned above also don't understand one of the many reasons Reagan achieved saintly status was being credited (justly or unjustly) for the collapse of the Soviet Empire. Once upon a time, Republicans were against totalitarianism and authoritarianism. It's stunning that freedom-loving conservatives would be indifferent or even support the invasion of a sovereign country like Ukraine. But when Russia is the model country for their worldview (i.e. an illiberal and corrupt democracy) and when Zelensky didn't go along with Trump's bribery, it all starts to make sense why conservatives are piling on Zelensky.
It is a mistake to look at Russia-Ukraine war through the prism of US partisan politics. This is much more serious meter. Despite of all rhetoric and hoopla, the Biden administration currently provides only a minimal support for Ukraine just to keep the fight going. It becomes clear that US does not want a complete Russian embarrassment and collapse. It seams that the long-term goal is to weaken Russia to the point that it can be controlled and reoriented against China; like the hopes at the beginning of the WWII that Germany would fight Soviets first. The consequences might be similar. The western world may face Chinese-Russian military alliance in 5-10 years.
 
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CLOUD 500

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It is a mistake to look at Russia-Ukraine war through the prism of US partisan politics. This is much more serious meter. Despite of all rhetoric and hoopla, the Biden administration currently provides only a minimal support for Ukraine just to keep the fight going. It becomes clear that US does not want a complete Russian embarrassment and collapse. It seams that the long-term goal is to weaken Russia to the point that it can be controlled and reoriented against China; like the hopes at the beginning of the WWII that Germany would fight Soviets first. The consequences might be similar. The western world may face Chinese-Russian military alliance in 5-10 years.
Huh? Minimal support? The US sent close to $50 billion of taxpayers money to support a war. Zelenski is a great actor, I can only imagine how much money he pocketed from all this foreign aid. This war is nothing but a money laundering operation.


 
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neverbored

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Huh? Minimal support? The US sent close to $50 billion of taxpayers money to support a war. Zelenski is a great actor, I can only imagine how much money he pocketed from all this foreign aid. This war is nothing but a money laundering operation.

You realize that they aren't sending actual money to Ukraine right? It’s billions for US weapons manufacturers, other services (spent in the US) and loans to send to Ukraine...

Do you have any idea how little that in terms of cost of wars and lost US lives ? Even 100billion to fight against Russia would be amazing ROI (FYI, US military budget is 1.7 TRILLION yearly)... this is pennies.
And they get to reduce their inventory of dusty equipment in favor of replacing it with fresh modern gear for the real fight that will be against China ... oh and no american military casulties.

 

Jazzman1218

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Huh? Minimal support? The US sent close to $50 billion of taxpayers money to support a war. Zelenski is a great actor, I can only imagine how much money he pocketed from all this foreign aid. This war is nothing but a money laundering operation.


That's quite a vivid imagination you have.
 

CLOUD 500

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You realize that they aren't sending actual money to Ukraine right? It’s billions for US weapons manufacturers, other services (spent in the US) and loans to send to Ukraine...
Aid is not given away as charity – it is wielded as a weapon to boost trade and further political aims. Half of all international development aid is “tied”, meaning that recipient countries must use it to buy goods and services from the donor nation. The principal beneficiary of America’s foreign assistance programmes has always been the United States. Close to 80% of the US Agency for International Development’s contracts and grants go directly to American firms. A high proportion of foreign aid is in the form of loans, which cripple developing countries through the accumulation of debt. Many rich nations receive more in interest payments from recipient countries than they give in “aid”. Especially since the 2008 financial crash, western governments have exploited their ability to borrow money at low rates by setting up aid programmes lending to poor countries at much higher rates, minting money on the backs of the poor. This is not aid, it is a scandal. Not to mention the amount of money Zelenski put into his own pockets. He is a great actor.
Do you have any idea how little that in terms of cost of wars and lost US lives ? Even 100billion to fight against Russia would be amazing ROI (FYI, US military budget is 1.7 TRILLION yearly)... this is pennies.
And they get to reduce their inventory of dusty equipment in favor of replacing it with fresh modern gear for the real fight that will be against China ... oh and no american military casulties.

Like most Socialists, they think money grows on trees. Do you think all these weapons are free? Wars are never any good, rich politicians have wars for power and money, they send people to war to do their dirty work. I will always support any country to fight for independence and freedom, but this is not the US's war, they have their own vested interest to be the supreme power so they spend billions of taxpayers money and send innocent people to war. Putin is just as guilty. The US has the biggest military budget in the world and that is to maintain world dominance. I do not believe in wars. Every conflict in this world is caused by greed and the need for power.
 
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CLOUD 500

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That's quite a vivid imagination you have.
No it is not and if you believe everything the government tells you then are more gullible then I thought. Foreign Aid = Money Laundering.
 
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Fradi

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It is a mistake to look at Russia-Ukraine war through the prism of US partisan politics. This is much more serious meter. Despite of all rhetoric and hoopla, the Biden administration currently provides only a minimal support for Ukraine just to keep the fight going. It becomes clear that US does not want a complete Russian embarrassment and collapse. It seams that the long-term goal is to weaken Russia to the point that it can be controlled and reoriented against China; like the hopes at the beginning of the WWII that Germany would fight Soviets first. The consequences might be similar. The western world may face Chinese-Russian military alliance in 5-10 years.
I find both the US and the rest of the free world especially Europe completely gutless.
They are arming the Ukrainians and watching idly by as thousands of them die needlessly in an unjust invasion.
They could put a stop to this instantly by first supplying Ukraine with the latest equipment not the aging crap that they have done so far and taking to the sky with Europes fighter jets and putting an end to Russian aggression completely by destroying anything Russian inside Ukraines borders.
There is no other way to deal with tyrant dictators like Putin.
 

minutemenX

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Huh? Minimal support? The US sent close to $50 billion of taxpayers money to support a war. Zelenski is a great actor, I can only imagine how much money he pocketed from all this foreign aid. This war is nothing but a money laundering operation.

I find both the US and the rest of the free world especially Europe completely gutless.
They are arming the Ukrainians and watching idly by as thousands of them die needlessly in an unjust invasion.
They could put a stop to this instantly by first supplying Ukraine with the latest equipment not the aging crap that they have done so far and taking to the sky with Europes fighter jets and putting an end to Russian aggression completely by destroying anything Russian inside Ukraines borders.
There is no other way to deal with tyrant dictators like Putin.
The dilemma is simple. The support flowing to Ukraine will be a pure loss (as 2.3 trillion dollars for Afghan war) if US will not rump up and Russia wins. Russia will incorporate all of Ukraine including Ukrainian army and will become a huge threat on the doorsteps of NATO. No doubt Russians will be going farther to make, for example, a land corridor to the Kaliningrad enclave. China might take military action on Taiwan. Iran, strengthened with ties to wining Russia will endanger Middle Est, etc. Eventually it will end up with US fighting against Russia/China alliance with American blood. From the beginning of war, Ukraine got only about $12.5B in military hardware and related equipment from US. Most of it is taken from storage, produced in 80-90s, and priced at the time of production. There are no main battle tanks, jets, and such. Without those Ukraine is going to lose the war as they practically lost all their soviet-made equipment (2000+ tanks, 2/3 of aircraft, etc.). As an example, US has given only about 20 HIMARS from its six hundred inventory. And all these rumors about Zelensky’s corruption are just rumors supplied by Russian trolls. To be fare, all wars are a fertile ground for corruption, but I doubt very much that Zelinsky has enriched himself using US money. He is under a microscope and Ukrainian opposition freely criticizes him as Ukraine is an open society unlike Russian dictatorship.
 
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CLOUD 500

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That's a cynical, but consistent, worldview.
That is naive, but consistent. The government tells the lords gospel truth.

The worship of the state is the worship of force. The worst evils which mankind had to endure were inflicted by governments -- Ludwig Von Mises
 

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minutemenX

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That is naive, but consistent. The government tells the lords gospel truth.

The worship of the state is the worship of force. The worst evils which mankind had to endure were inflicted by governments -- Ludwig Von Mises
Sure, any state is evil and designed to subjugate individual by force for the sake of "common good” defined by the state itself. But there are shades: from light to a very, very dark.
 

CLOUD 500

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Sure, any state is evil and designed to subjugate individual by force for the sake of "common good” defined by the state itself. But there are shades: from light to a very, very dark.
You just defined Collectivism the basis of Communism, I strongly disagree with this if it is done by force like the government does, the only time Collectivism is good if it is accepted by people on a voluntary basis. I do agree with you that there are many shades of this.
 

minutemenX

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You just defined Collectivism the basis of Communism, I strongly disagree with this if it is done by force like the government does, the only time Collectivism is good if it is accepted by people on a voluntary basis. I do agree with you that there are many shades of this.
Communism is just an extreme example. In the so called “democracies” (dictatorships of "majority"), the government also exercises force over individual believes and opinions under the banner of common good. For example, enforced COVID restrictions and vaccination.
 

CLOUD 500

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Communism is just an extreme example. In the so called “democracies” (dictatorships of "majority"), the government also exercises force over individual believes and opinions under the banner of common good. For example, enforced COVID restrictions and vaccination.
I know. That is why I said I agreed with you when you wrote there are different shades of this.
 
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Jazzman1218

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That is naive, but consistent. The government tells the lords gospel truth.

The worship of the state is the worship of force. The worst evils which mankind had to endure were inflicted by governments -- Ludwig Von Mises
No one is worshiping the state except those, like trump and MAGA republicans, who lust for power contrary to the will of the majority. Governments, like its citizens, must be accountable for their actions. That is why democracy - leadership freely determined by the people - messy and imperfect as it may be, is the best form of government.
 

Carmine Falcone

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It is a mistake to look at Russia-Ukraine war through the prism of US partisan politics. This is much more serious meter. Despite of all rhetoric and hoopla, the Biden administration currently provides only a minimal support for Ukraine just to keep the fight going. It becomes clear that US does not want a complete Russian embarrassment and collapse. It seams that the long-term goal is to weaken Russia to the point that it can be controlled and reoriented against China; like the hopes at the beginning of the WWII that Germany would fight Soviets first. The consequences might be similar. The western world may face Chinese-Russian military alliance in 5-10 years.
The US isn't gently propping up Ukraine to merely weaken Russia. Much like with the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia is already plenty weak on its own. Russia has had to buy ammunition from North Korea. Also, Russia's main GDP contributor of oil has been severely curbed by sanctions and countries sourcing their oil and gas from elsewhere.

On the contrary, the US is fighting no more than a proxy war because direct Russian confrontation would quickly escalate, between two nuclear countries no less.

Remember a few weeks ago when everyone heaved a sigh of relief when the missiles that hit Poland, a NATO country, were apparently fired by Ukraine? Save the war industry, no one in their right mind is spoiling for a war that expands in scope. Even this regional European war has had profound implications on the entire world. The US can absolutely support Ukraine in more ways if it wanted to--but it's a fine line. Go too heavy handed against Russia militarily and risk antagonizing Russia even more. Even the US support provided thus far has made Russia make several (toothless) threats. As I previously said, we lucked out that Ukraine wasn't already a NATO member. That point was likely not lost on Putin either when he invaded. And to the point of having to defend Ukraine had it been a NATO member, Ukraine joining NATO is no longer an option for the US AND Ukraine.
 

CLOUD 500

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No one is worshiping the state except those, like trump and MAGA republicans, who lust for power contrary to the will of the majority. Governments, like its citizens, must be accountable for their actions. That is why democracy - leadership freely determined by the people - messy and imperfect as it may be, is the best form of government.
Huh? Lol What are you talking about? Everything is always Trump's fault? You sound like Purplem. Lol Do you think other politicians are any different? They all lust for power. And government is never held accountable for anything. Look at Trudeau, he got away with treason, ethics violations, the WE Scandal, Lavalin, throwing Wilson-Rayboult under the bus, throwing Garneau under the bus? Need I go on.

You say Democracy, I call it Democrazy: A system that supports the notion that if an idea is popular with 51% of the people then the idea must be forced on everyone else.
Voting so that the majority gets their way sounds good at first.
After all, we think, is it not good that most people are pleased with the outcome?
But if the majority wants to harm the minority, as so often happens, majority rule begins to sound pretty bad.
Majority rule ultimately means minority oppression. Since we are all unique individuals, each of us are part of some minority due to the color of our skin, our religious beliefs, our ideas about how things should be, etc..
When the majority tries to impose their will on us, democracy does not seem so benign. We take turns being victims and aggressors.
This is a prescription for eternal war.
Instead of majority rule (democracy), each of us should rule ourselves as long as we do not initiate physical force, fraud, or theft against others.

Expecting bureaucrats to make life better for us is like waiting for a train that can never come.
Most political parties do not want to fix government in the only way that will help you prosper, because it would mean giving you liberty and giving up their power over you.
When I vote, I vote Libertarian, because it is the only party that wants the power to free you from the clutches of the others.

Sadly, many Liberal voters are unaware that our government has become the problem and still blindly support it.
Consequently, government grows bigger, destroying our freedom even further.
Patriotism is not about supporting your government; it is about making sure that your government supports freedom.
Anything less is an invitation to tyranny.
 
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