Same things happen on Terb a lot too. New members get shill-calls a lot..i guess it's somewhat understandable. I've written a few reviews on Terb but did my research on here, took the plunge in Montreal, and just wrote my first review on Merb. I'll probably get called a shill for being a new member reviewing a new girl. Whatever. The more reviews the better..any unusual or false reviews will eventually be 'weeded' out but subsequent reviews from others. It's obvious that good SPs will have consistently decent reviews ovewr a period of time.
Jump-to-the-gun comments about (possible) shills for the first timers
- Thread starter CantSeeMrHappy
- Start date
Cosmo said:
If you suspect someone of being a shill, you'd better have proof before the attack. "Hmmm I think you're a shill so prove you are not" just doesn't cut it. If such a baseless attack was directed at me I woudn't try to "prove" anything, I'd just tell the poster to go screw himself.
And speaking of Oliver, he attacked me in a sports thread of all places with this silly "I don't know what the hell I'm talking about so I'm going to attack your (lack of) credentials on SP/MP reviews!" attitude. Jesus Christ... And I've seen several posters attacked in the lounge, on topics totally unrelated to SP/MP's, on the basis of their "newness" and their low post count... This is thouroughly idiotic. We should be debating people's opinions and ideas, not their post count.
shills & newbies
https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=12682
Perhaps people do jump the gun in certain cases but other times it`s just so blatant. If there were not so many shills using different handles (as seen in above thread) there would certainly be a lot less accusations.
https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=12682
Perhaps people do jump the gun in certain cases but other times it`s just so blatant. If there were not so many shills using different handles (as seen in above thread) there would certainly be a lot less accusations.
martinl68 said:
Very true, I agree. It's just when the BS is sent our way, we respond. I'd never call a first time poster a shill, but when I see 3 first time posters with the same join date, ranting about the same unknown provider, in the space of 15 min, well you know what I'm saying. People respond to this. It's not a paranoia running rampant, although I must admit that unjust accusations can happen
I digress,.....slightly.
By definition,……shill.
Somebody who promotes somebody or something for reasons of self-interest.
Which could be considered,…… deception.
The practice of deliberately attempting to make somebody believe things that are not true.
Dahlia:
>Shills will show themselves eventually, in due time.<
Easy for you to suggest, as you are not the one laying out the hard earned cash. This is absolutely absurd!
I ask the question, how long should anyone wait for this exposure to take place and at what expense?
For the moment, lets take money out of the equation. Expense can be in the form of an investment in time, as in associated travel as not all of us are from Montreal. Expense can be associated with the unfulfilled realization and the potential for feeling embarrassed, disappointed, which scores so deeply, one bags the hobby and certainly does not disclose the experience on this board. In this case, the expense is two-fold. Lost revenue for the ladies, the industry in general. Lost potential in the realization of meaningful content for the boards.
Now consider the business of you, the reputation of other SP’s and agencies, as shilling cuts both ways. Imagine a disgruntled client, imagine the experience was not on par with the anticipated fantasy and they deem it appropriate to make a disparaging assertion on your behalf. Imagine the sick-pup who gets off on conjuring up a fictitious interlude with you, for the purposes of posting their own material, viewing the responses from the members, all the while soiling their favorite fur lined glove.
How many times should someone be tolerant of less then acceptable experience, which was based on a glowing, yet fabricated review?
How much “due time” will your, anyone’s resources allow for, in restoring the perception of service or reputation?
>It can be quite the little housekeeping task for sure, especially as most reviews are considered shills. But hmmm...maybe, there could be another statistic showing how many reviews are considered shills.<
I do not think anyone feels most reviews are shills. I do not think anyone feels most newbies are shills. Maybe there could be another statistic showing how many potential, first time or existing hobbyists, have been a casualty of suspect fodder. Perhaps some may be guilty in their persistence to make the fantasy real and disregarded what may have appeared obvious. But the suspect information should not have been available in the first place or at the very least exposed as such. Now lets also consider the ladies, in regard their tolerance for this behavior and their own reputation. Need I remind anyone of, Jake The Snake, Faltso, Tony and on,….and on. By the way and not for nothing, Faltso just happened to be a newbie.
>I need some clarification here, please. Why does this board, regardless of the amount of shilling guys, agencies, sp's and whoever else, attack newbie reviews about newbie Sp's?<
My experience, here in the states suggests a direct correlation between, god forbid,…. newbies, shills and new SP’s. It is certainly not a new practice and will usually evidence itself with the offering of a new individual, perhaps aligned with an agency or legion of independent hotties. Many times, they have the same contact information and visit for the same duration of time. This is often the case with the “erotic services” sub-menu offered through Craigslist and at times, the “visiting” sections of other boards. The coincidental significant interest in the “review” headings of TER are just as astounding. Later, perhaps weeks, once you get past the first 2,3 or even 4 reviews of stellar services rendered, there exists a bevy of disgruntled experiences. By now, the ladies have moved on to another part of the planet, and so it goes. Obviously the information was erroneously posted, often times by a newly, made-up entity, in anticipation of some current or upcoming visit, solely for the purpose of offering credibility.
Call it guilt by association but it really has nothing to do with whether or not someone is new but everything to do with whether they have an established history and credibility, which by definition, a newbie would not have. This is not discriminatory but a truism associated with the reality. Please be mindful, a shill is not specific to anyone, certainly not newbies but unfortunately and more often then not, is the case. Why, because obviously somebody new had to create a new post to offer the suspect information.
I also became aware of a respected reviewer on another board, who was getting kickbacks from suppliers for fabricating content, which is why I mentioned this in my previous reply. I had also heard that this same reviewer, upon becoming disenchanted with whatever the deal was, posted disparaging material regarding the same suppliers. Was the person a newbie, certainly not? Was he a shill, absolutely!
Some of the individuals on this board, myself included have learned to be suspect, perhaps as a bi-product of some unfortunate experience/s. I would find it much easier to apologize publicly to someone or even an agency, then experience or admit to being burned again.
Why can’t we just tell the truth?
By definition,……shill.
Somebody who promotes somebody or something for reasons of self-interest.
Which could be considered,…… deception.
The practice of deliberately attempting to make somebody believe things that are not true.
Dahlia:
>Shills will show themselves eventually, in due time.<
Easy for you to suggest, as you are not the one laying out the hard earned cash. This is absolutely absurd!
I ask the question, how long should anyone wait for this exposure to take place and at what expense?
For the moment, lets take money out of the equation. Expense can be in the form of an investment in time, as in associated travel as not all of us are from Montreal. Expense can be associated with the unfulfilled realization and the potential for feeling embarrassed, disappointed, which scores so deeply, one bags the hobby and certainly does not disclose the experience on this board. In this case, the expense is two-fold. Lost revenue for the ladies, the industry in general. Lost potential in the realization of meaningful content for the boards.
Now consider the business of you, the reputation of other SP’s and agencies, as shilling cuts both ways. Imagine a disgruntled client, imagine the experience was not on par with the anticipated fantasy and they deem it appropriate to make a disparaging assertion on your behalf. Imagine the sick-pup who gets off on conjuring up a fictitious interlude with you, for the purposes of posting their own material, viewing the responses from the members, all the while soiling their favorite fur lined glove.
How many times should someone be tolerant of less then acceptable experience, which was based on a glowing, yet fabricated review?
How much “due time” will your, anyone’s resources allow for, in restoring the perception of service or reputation?
>It can be quite the little housekeeping task for sure, especially as most reviews are considered shills. But hmmm...maybe, there could be another statistic showing how many reviews are considered shills.<
I do not think anyone feels most reviews are shills. I do not think anyone feels most newbies are shills. Maybe there could be another statistic showing how many potential, first time or existing hobbyists, have been a casualty of suspect fodder. Perhaps some may be guilty in their persistence to make the fantasy real and disregarded what may have appeared obvious. But the suspect information should not have been available in the first place or at the very least exposed as such. Now lets also consider the ladies, in regard their tolerance for this behavior and their own reputation. Need I remind anyone of, Jake The Snake, Faltso, Tony and on,….and on. By the way and not for nothing, Faltso just happened to be a newbie.
>I need some clarification here, please. Why does this board, regardless of the amount of shilling guys, agencies, sp's and whoever else, attack newbie reviews about newbie Sp's?<
My experience, here in the states suggests a direct correlation between, god forbid,…. newbies, shills and new SP’s. It is certainly not a new practice and will usually evidence itself with the offering of a new individual, perhaps aligned with an agency or legion of independent hotties. Many times, they have the same contact information and visit for the same duration of time. This is often the case with the “erotic services” sub-menu offered through Craigslist and at times, the “visiting” sections of other boards. The coincidental significant interest in the “review” headings of TER are just as astounding. Later, perhaps weeks, once you get past the first 2,3 or even 4 reviews of stellar services rendered, there exists a bevy of disgruntled experiences. By now, the ladies have moved on to another part of the planet, and so it goes. Obviously the information was erroneously posted, often times by a newly, made-up entity, in anticipation of some current or upcoming visit, solely for the purpose of offering credibility.
Call it guilt by association but it really has nothing to do with whether or not someone is new but everything to do with whether they have an established history and credibility, which by definition, a newbie would not have. This is not discriminatory but a truism associated with the reality. Please be mindful, a shill is not specific to anyone, certainly not newbies but unfortunately and more often then not, is the case. Why, because obviously somebody new had to create a new post to offer the suspect information.
I also became aware of a respected reviewer on another board, who was getting kickbacks from suppliers for fabricating content, which is why I mentioned this in my previous reply. I had also heard that this same reviewer, upon becoming disenchanted with whatever the deal was, posted disparaging material regarding the same suppliers. Was the person a newbie, certainly not? Was he a shill, absolutely!
Some of the individuals on this board, myself included have learned to be suspect, perhaps as a bi-product of some unfortunate experience/s. I would find it much easier to apologize publicly to someone or even an agency, then experience or admit to being burned again.
Why can’t we just tell the truth?
tianye22 said:
Nothing wrong with beign new poster.But those who come here with a handful of posts and start calling names and lecturing members new or old is a little disrespectful imo.Know your role and shutt your mouth-there's a fine example.
JustBob said:
Whatever,But most suspicions I along with many past and present members had were proven right.And they did tell us(the accusers) to screw off.
Didn't stop them from beign banned.
I AS SAID MANY TIMES BEFORE,I'M NOT ACCUSING ALL FIRST TIME OR LOW POSTS MEMBERS,BUT THOSE WHO COME HERE AND TRY TO DRAG US INTO THEIR SHITHOLES.IT'S SOOOOO OBVIOUS,THEY ARE LIKE AN HAIR IN A BOWL OF SOUP.YOU CAN SPOT THEM FROM A MILE!!!!!
AND ALSO THIS PROOF BEFORE THE ATTACK IS PLAYING AGAINST THE CUSTOMER.LET THE SHILLS DO THEIR DIRTY DEEDS AND THEN LEAVE THE SUCKERS(MOST OF US) LAY THE CASH THEN COME BACK HERE AND COMPLAIN.LIKE SOMEONE SAID,HOW MUCH TIME SHOULD WE ALLOW THEM?
WHY DON'T WE LEAVE THEM ALONE?
You guys prefer beign dragged in by an imposter instead???
You must have lots of time and money to waste then.
That's it ,let them shill peacefully,after all, what's a brownie spent on a dud?
Thanks to the tolerant squad, shills must be LTAO presently.
martinl68 said:
Yeah but mods aren't on merb 24hrs a day.Sometimes a senior member can warn you and prevent you from spending money on a shill before he gets caught by the mods.
martinl68 said:
So you,re implying that a newbie should learn it the hard way-meaning spending money and time on a shill instead of beign warned?
I don't believe we should just keep it to ourselves.Quite the opposite,let's denounce and expose shills.
Cosmo said:
The point is that shills will get caught eventually. Sorry but I believe that the "how long do you want to be fooled by an imposter, you must really have time and money to waste" argument is bs. Who in their right mind would see an SP based on a single glowing review? If you do that, then it isn't a so-called shill's fault, it's your fault for being a stupid consumer. Read multiple reviews/opinions and then make up your mind. If you're horny and you let your dick do the thinking based on a single review then it's your own damn fault. For everything I "buy" not just for SP services, I'm never going to base my purchasing decision based on a single opinion or review. Heck I'm a film/DVD reviewer and if someone sends me a nasty e-mail saying that he went to see a movie or bought a DVD based on my review and he thought the movie sucked I'd tell him he should have read more reviews, like any intelligent consumer would do, and then make up his mind whether or not he should see the film.
JustBob said:
I won't call someone who fall for first time shill stupid,not even naive.How about inexperienced?
I used to be new to this whole review board and I did fell for a bogus review.Thanks for the insult.
You people talk about proptecting newbies against fast gunners but how about protecting them against shillers?
I'm sorry but I firmly believe that by giving ''benifit of the doubt'' to obvious shills you are doing them a favor.Just enough time to scoop up a few ''stupid'' members.
Dahlia,
I'm sorry all my answers apear next to your comments in the blue frame.
I don,t know how to do it properly.
I know it can be misleading and hard to tell who is saying what.
The internet is not my forte obviously!
btw,happy birthday!!!....a few days later.
I'm sorry all my answers apear next to your comments in the blue frame.
I don,t know how to do it properly.
I know it can be misleading and hard to tell who is saying what.
The internet is not my forte obviously!
btw,happy birthday!!!....a few days later.
Perhaps,.......and I say perhaps...
.......an example.
JustBob:
>Read multiple reviews/opinions and then make up your mind. If you're horny and you let your dick do the thinking based on a single review then it's your own damn fault.<
Let me provide a situation, which exists on this board as we write.
I will not provide the persons handle, but if you are really interested in this topic, you can figure it out by viewing the replies associated with my screen name and under the heading of, “view more posts by” and dated 8/7/2006.
A reply was “originally” posted to a 3 year old thread and was accompanied by three replies other then the posting individual, one of them was mine, even though I found the interest unusual. Please be mindful, I responded to the post as I had experience on this topic, which also suggests a history and granted, my encounter was four years ago. You will notice and as part of my initial response, I asked some basic, simple questions.
This suspect reply to the existing thread, was not this person’s first in his history of posting, it was actually his second. Between the back and forth on this thread, and the favorable, inquisitive material offered by the well meaning participants, including myself, this individuals post count jumped to 12.
Fast forward. This persons post count now stands at 6. This individual obviously deleted all of his favorable posts, which for the most part were one or two lines. I believe he may have begun another post in another section, I might be wrong or it could have been deleted. Additionally, this individual PM’ed me and offered a current review of an encounter, which could have been lifted from any favorable review on or by anyone. He then replaced one of his posts in-part with the information I offered in my original reply, again based on my history and experience. As I stated above, I use the word “originally”, because some care was initiated in reconstructing the content. Again, you will get the idea of the original flow, it will just take some doing. Did anything come out of this, was anyone hurt? I doubt it. I am only trying to suggest the potential for obscure or unscrupulous intent can exist, and could quite simply start as a single thread, substantiated by well meaning, helpful individuals.
So I digress,…..again. No this did not start with the first post, it started on the second. Do I liken myself, as the patrolmen for the board,...hell no and don’t wanna be! Am I suggesting this person could be, again, God forbid a shill,…… I agree with “Doingittodeath”, I will let you decide. I will admit when I am wrong, but ask yourself, does this seem like normal behavior?
>Heck I'm a film/DVD reviewer and if someone sends me a nasty e-mail saying that he went to see a movie or bought a DVD based on my review and he thought the movie sucked I'd tell him he should have read more reviews, like any intelligent consumer would do, and then make up his mind whether or not he should see the film.<
Got it, I love the analogy!
The next time I feel remorse in investing $17.99 and 2 hours of my time, in the company of someone other then what I expected and based on even one review, I will remind myself, “Stupid is as stupid does, Forrest”
.......an example.
JustBob:
>Read multiple reviews/opinions and then make up your mind. If you're horny and you let your dick do the thinking based on a single review then it's your own damn fault.<
Let me provide a situation, which exists on this board as we write.
I will not provide the persons handle, but if you are really interested in this topic, you can figure it out by viewing the replies associated with my screen name and under the heading of, “view more posts by” and dated 8/7/2006.
A reply was “originally” posted to a 3 year old thread and was accompanied by three replies other then the posting individual, one of them was mine, even though I found the interest unusual. Please be mindful, I responded to the post as I had experience on this topic, which also suggests a history and granted, my encounter was four years ago. You will notice and as part of my initial response, I asked some basic, simple questions.
This suspect reply to the existing thread, was not this person’s first in his history of posting, it was actually his second. Between the back and forth on this thread, and the favorable, inquisitive material offered by the well meaning participants, including myself, this individuals post count jumped to 12.
Fast forward. This persons post count now stands at 6. This individual obviously deleted all of his favorable posts, which for the most part were one or two lines. I believe he may have begun another post in another section, I might be wrong or it could have been deleted. Additionally, this individual PM’ed me and offered a current review of an encounter, which could have been lifted from any favorable review on or by anyone. He then replaced one of his posts in-part with the information I offered in my original reply, again based on my history and experience. As I stated above, I use the word “originally”, because some care was initiated in reconstructing the content. Again, you will get the idea of the original flow, it will just take some doing. Did anything come out of this, was anyone hurt? I doubt it. I am only trying to suggest the potential for obscure or unscrupulous intent can exist, and could quite simply start as a single thread, substantiated by well meaning, helpful individuals.
So I digress,…..again. No this did not start with the first post, it started on the second. Do I liken myself, as the patrolmen for the board,...hell no and don’t wanna be! Am I suggesting this person could be, again, God forbid a shill,…… I agree with “Doingittodeath”, I will let you decide. I will admit when I am wrong, but ask yourself, does this seem like normal behavior?
>Heck I'm a film/DVD reviewer and if someone sends me a nasty e-mail saying that he went to see a movie or bought a DVD based on my review and he thought the movie sucked I'd tell him he should have read more reviews, like any intelligent consumer would do, and then make up his mind whether or not he should see the film.<
Got it, I love the analogy!
The next time I feel remorse in investing $17.99 and 2 hours of my time, in the company of someone other then what I expected and based on even one review, I will remind myself, “Stupid is as stupid does, Forrest”
breadman said:
What if the reason you register is to post a review?
If I didn't post a review my very first day it was within a day or two because the reason I signed up was to post that review.
Then again, maybe that's because I don't consider myself a "hobbyist".
asimplepicture said:
I get what you are saying. Suspicion is fine and if someone's behavior is deemed "abnormal", then it should be reported to the mods. My problem is with the knee-jerk shill accusations levied against new posters on a consistant basis. My point still stands, shills are going to be caught eventually. Here, the counter argument seems to be that you can catch shills faster if you provoke them and that this way, you might prevent some "damage". And if some baseless accusations are made towards legitimate new members then too bad. I strongly disagree with this because the downside is that you create an atmosphere of suspicion and paranoia which might drive new members away, members who in the future could become useful contributors. And for god's sake, we are not trying to cure cancer or eradicate terrorism here... I think some people take this "hobbying" much too seriously, think they own this forum and will preciously guard it against newbie intruders.
The analogy still stands. As a consumer, it's your job to do proper research before you purchase a product or a service. Whether we're referring to movies, cars or SP's is irrelevant. If I choose to see an SP based on a single review or no review at all, I'm the one responsible for the quality (or lack of) of the encounter.
JustBob said:
Jusbob,
Agree with you that people are taking this board way too seriously,like policing the anti-shills.....
Of course, for some a brownie is no much ''damage'' it seems,but being called a shill!!!!OMG!
Let me call my lawyer!My psychic,my insurence company!!!OMG!!!
I wonder who's paranoia is bigger.Beign called a shill isn't the end of the world.Many have been and are still here safe and sound.
BTW where can I get to spend 2 hours in the company of someone for 17.99!!!
point taken.......
JustBob:
>My point still stands, shills are going to be caught eventually.<
And in the context of my response to your analogy, I do not have a problem with that.
Let it take forever……..
I will happily take my chances, many chances, based on one review of an SP, while forking over the $17.99 for two hours with her. I am sure the ladies love being compared to a movie purchase.
>Whether we're referring to movies, cars or SP's is irrelevant.<
As you had mentioned you were a film/DVD reviewer, I started to think. A few weeks back on a rainy Jersey Shore afternoon, my niece, nephew and I rented a Little Rascal’s compilation DVD. I believe there were 3, maybe 4 episodes on the disk. I think, it was distributed by Kingworld.
I have to thank you as it was you mentioning, your area of proficiency, which generated this thought and caused me to remember the rental. One of the episodes on the DVD featured Alfalfa & Darla in a Sattiday Matinnay called, your gonna love this, “Romyo and Jullet”. The problem was nobody wanted to pay the admission, fearful the show would not be worth the 1 cent charge. I guess in this case, no reviews existed. In short, Spanky is so sure everyone will be pleased with the show, he comes up with this “Pay as you exit” proposal and thus the name of the episode.
http://www.4alfalfa.com/Commentary/exit.html
Actually, and as I am writing, this is great………..cars!
I have to believe most of us, no matter how much research we had done, no matter how many reviews we had read, regardless of what Dad or the guy next door thought, we insisted on test driving the car we were thinking about. That’s right,….. took it for a little spin.
If we can get the ladies on board with any,…. just one of the above scenarios, I think we can put the shills out of business and bury this thread all together.
So one more time, the choices:
1). 2 hours with an SP for $17.99.
2). “Pay As You Exit” - Pay the Sp the fee only after you’ve had your way and you’re happy with the service.
3). “The Test Drive” - Put the peddle to the metal, burn rubber, try all the options and if were not satisfied,……we can negotiate?. Hell no, just walk away! Try another one.
So my brothers,..are you with me!!!!!!!
Yeah!
Nothing like comparing apples to apples, eh!
Maybe I’ve just taken this all too seriously,........
>The analogy still stands<
.........but don’t you just love analogies!
And Cosmo - Anti-shill,..........that's great!
JustBob:
>My point still stands, shills are going to be caught eventually.<
And in the context of my response to your analogy, I do not have a problem with that.
Let it take forever……..
I will happily take my chances, many chances, based on one review of an SP, while forking over the $17.99 for two hours with her. I am sure the ladies love being compared to a movie purchase.
>Whether we're referring to movies, cars or SP's is irrelevant.<
As you had mentioned you were a film/DVD reviewer, I started to think. A few weeks back on a rainy Jersey Shore afternoon, my niece, nephew and I rented a Little Rascal’s compilation DVD. I believe there were 3, maybe 4 episodes on the disk. I think, it was distributed by Kingworld.
I have to thank you as it was you mentioning, your area of proficiency, which generated this thought and caused me to remember the rental. One of the episodes on the DVD featured Alfalfa & Darla in a Sattiday Matinnay called, your gonna love this, “Romyo and Jullet”. The problem was nobody wanted to pay the admission, fearful the show would not be worth the 1 cent charge. I guess in this case, no reviews existed. In short, Spanky is so sure everyone will be pleased with the show, he comes up with this “Pay as you exit” proposal and thus the name of the episode.
http://www.4alfalfa.com/Commentary/exit.html
Actually, and as I am writing, this is great………..cars!
I have to believe most of us, no matter how much research we had done, no matter how many reviews we had read, regardless of what Dad or the guy next door thought, we insisted on test driving the car we were thinking about. That’s right,….. took it for a little spin.
If we can get the ladies on board with any,…. just one of the above scenarios, I think we can put the shills out of business and bury this thread all together.
So one more time, the choices:
1). 2 hours with an SP for $17.99.
2). “Pay As You Exit” - Pay the Sp the fee only after you’ve had your way and you’re happy with the service.
3). “The Test Drive” - Put the peddle to the metal, burn rubber, try all the options and if were not satisfied,……we can negotiate?. Hell no, just walk away! Try another one.
So my brothers,..are you with me!!!!!!!
Yeah!
Nothing like comparing apples to apples, eh!
Maybe I’ve just taken this all too seriously,........
>The analogy still stands<
.........but don’t you just love analogies!
And Cosmo - Anti-shill,..........that's great!
asimplepicture said:
Considering you are bending yourself out of shape trying to distort what I said in order to avoid addressing the fairly simple point I made about intelligent consumerism, it would appear that you are indeed taking this too seriously. But then again we do live in a "blame everybody else except myself for those poor decisions I make" type of society. Next thing you know, people will be suing these so-called shills.
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