Jump-to-the-gun comments about (possible) shills for the first timers
- Thread starter CantSeeMrHappy
- Start date
JustBob said:Considering you are bending yourself out of shape trying to distort what I said in order to avoid addressing the fairly simple point I made about intelligent consumerism, it would appear that you are indeed taking this too seriously. But then again we do live in a "blame everybody else except myself for those poor decisions I make" type of society. Next thing you know, people will be suing these so-called shills.
Suing the REAL shills,....hmmmmm-not a bad idea.
It's false publicity after all.
People get fooled everyday by false publicity,telemarketing ect..
Some of them do sue the bogus crooks.
Poisoning the atmosphere and losing good hobbyists.
Hello all,
I am in strong aggreement with JustBob in post #55 of this thread. There is far too much unfair and unwarranted "instant judgement" on this board. It is certain that many people have been accused or attacked unfairly, even far before any suspicions have been reasonably confirmed and this situation has driven away some very respectable hobbyists who are tired of being accused, insulted, having their chararcter impugned, and their reputation tarnished by the kind of "Fast Food" judgements that have kept honest people from posting again.
Certainly the number of post gives no one greater legitimacy in their opinions than anyone else. Some people seem to be post addicted. I note that until this post I have made 215 posts in exactly three years while some hobbyists are posting at a rate of 2000 and more in one year. That's 30-1 or so. Are they more legitimate than me...or you...of course not.
It's simply wrong and even outrageous to call someone a schill based on one post if you have no real evidence to back you up. That is completely unjustified even if the accuser is later proven right. In the case of schills, the moderators seem very capable of exposing them without the pressure tactics of accuse, accuse, accuse until they disappear or break. Brow beating someone into oblivion proves nothing except the "KIND" of person you are.
Then there is the reprehensible habit of attacking even verteran hobbyists for posts someone finds objectionable because it is negative towards a favorite agency or especially a beloved lady; even despite corroborating testimony. In some cases presumptive policing hobbyists demand entire retractions of a thread after spewing unfounded accusations of bias, alterior motives, and lying. They don't seem to be able to admit and don't want to believe that the subject they seek to defend in the thread can be anything less than 100% perfect or almost.
In my view eveyone should get the same top level of respect whether the information is objectionable or not until there is some valid verified reason to believe a poster doesn't deserve it. The board is not improved by knee-jerk accusations and/or tactics that impugne hobbyists without real evidence or cause. These methods only lose more legitimate hobbyists than the all the schills or devious posters they catch; and a great deal of good information...and FUN consequently is being missed. Let the weight of corroborating posts by hobbyists you respect be your guide...and keep your impulsiveness and your own biases to yourself.
Have FUN,
Korbel
Hello all,
I am in strong aggreement with JustBob in post #55 of this thread. There is far too much unfair and unwarranted "instant judgement" on this board. It is certain that many people have been accused or attacked unfairly, even far before any suspicions have been reasonably confirmed and this situation has driven away some very respectable hobbyists who are tired of being accused, insulted, having their chararcter impugned, and their reputation tarnished by the kind of "Fast Food" judgements that have kept honest people from posting again.
Certainly the number of post gives no one greater legitimacy in their opinions than anyone else. Some people seem to be post addicted. I note that until this post I have made 215 posts in exactly three years while some hobbyists are posting at a rate of 2000 and more in one year. That's 30-1 or so. Are they more legitimate than me...or you...of course not.
It's simply wrong and even outrageous to call someone a schill based on one post if you have no real evidence to back you up. That is completely unjustified even if the accuser is later proven right. In the case of schills, the moderators seem very capable of exposing them without the pressure tactics of accuse, accuse, accuse until they disappear or break. Brow beating someone into oblivion proves nothing except the "KIND" of person you are.
Then there is the reprehensible habit of attacking even verteran hobbyists for posts someone finds objectionable because it is negative towards a favorite agency or especially a beloved lady; even despite corroborating testimony. In some cases presumptive policing hobbyists demand entire retractions of a thread after spewing unfounded accusations of bias, alterior motives, and lying. They don't seem to be able to admit and don't want to believe that the subject they seek to defend in the thread can be anything less than 100% perfect or almost.
In my view eveyone should get the same top level of respect whether the information is objectionable or not until there is some valid verified reason to believe a poster doesn't deserve it. The board is not improved by knee-jerk accusations and/or tactics that impugne hobbyists without real evidence or cause. These methods only lose more legitimate hobbyists than the all the schills or devious posters they catch; and a great deal of good information...and FUN consequently is being missed. Let the weight of corroborating posts by hobbyists you respect be your guide...and keep your impulsiveness and your own biases to yourself.
Have FUN,
Korbel
Last edited:
Man I can't believe it.
Like being called a shill is the end of the world.
As long as there will be shills there will be so-called fast triggered accusers.
Sorry but that's a fact.
Blame the shills not the shill busters.
This attitude wouldn't exist if there were no shills.
I think people are overdarmatizing this,how many real potential members have really been tossed aside by attackers or quit due to some attacks?
Not that much,I'm quite sure.
HAVE FUN.
Like being called a shill is the end of the world.
As long as there will be shills there will be so-called fast triggered accusers.
Sorry but that's a fact.
Blame the shills not the shill busters.
This attitude wouldn't exist if there were no shills.
I think people are overdarmatizing this,how many real potential members have really been tossed aside by attackers or quit due to some attacks?
Not that much,I'm quite sure.
HAVE FUN.
If being called a shill is going to scare or chase a member from the board then the guy is too damn thin skinned to be anywhere near this business in the first place. What's wrong poor babies, can't stand the heat? We've all been through flame wars on the board. Most of us are still standing. If you shill, you'll get busted. If you get wrongly accused you'll get an apology. No big deal. We're supposed to be adults here, not children. If anyone can't handle a bit of crap on an anonymous chat board I hate to think how they handle pressure in their normal life. Grow up.
Techman said:
Techman,
For once we agree.
Martin,
You don't have to fight for credibility on this board,you have to EARN it.
When you read some-not all-- newbies first posts insulting everyone and lecturing us,then cry for respect,this is not the way to obtain credibility,or respect.
It can be obtain with very few posts contrary to some thin skinned easily offended members' beleifs.
True, some have been wrongly accused in the past.So what?
Like Techman says-it's not the end of the world.
Thin skinned????
Hello all,
Well, we can all deal with a little "stuff". I have never been called a schill. But, I have been attacked by the white knight type that tried to get me to retract my honest account of a lady when I really never said anything much negative at all in the first place. All I said was the lady wasn't quite herself when I met her. That was enough for the attacks to begin.
Then there was my post on being pressured by agencies to take more hours even before I met a lady. It's a very strange feeling to sit hear knowing the truth and watch posters make inuendos and judgements instead of disgussing the issue and trying to offer suggestions or solutions. OH...he is lying...oh he isn't lying. Well, maybe he was pressured just a bit. Don't you think that if someone takes the time to reply they should offer ideas instead of impugning my integrity. Why not offer ideas instead of jumping to defend the agencies when no else has any evidence to say what really happened. I am not just speaking for myself. As this boards shows there are many who go through the same thing. Different points of view are one thing; insinuations that you are a liar is quite another. There were no apologies for accusations made with no evidence at all.
As for the real number of posters who stop because of these knee-jerk attacks, I don't know a lot of hobbyists personally. But I know three out of the few I do know who have stopped. It's a small pool of people but it still adds up to 35-40% and that seems damn high. They had been involved with Bigdoggie, Canbest, and Merb. But the viciousness of some was so beyond reason that they were too disgusted to keep posting. So don't think there isn't a significant effect even if it is just 10%. And believe me...they were very, very active and had a great deal of valuable insight to offer this board. Respected by many, gravely insulted by some persistent troublemakers, this information is no longer available for your use. It's a huge loss to all.
Good luck,
Korbel
Hello all,
Well, we can all deal with a little "stuff". I have never been called a schill. But, I have been attacked by the white knight type that tried to get me to retract my honest account of a lady when I really never said anything much negative at all in the first place. All I said was the lady wasn't quite herself when I met her. That was enough for the attacks to begin.
Then there was my post on being pressured by agencies to take more hours even before I met a lady. It's a very strange feeling to sit hear knowing the truth and watch posters make inuendos and judgements instead of disgussing the issue and trying to offer suggestions or solutions. OH...he is lying...oh he isn't lying. Well, maybe he was pressured just a bit. Don't you think that if someone takes the time to reply they should offer ideas instead of impugning my integrity. Why not offer ideas instead of jumping to defend the agencies when no else has any evidence to say what really happened. I am not just speaking for myself. As this boards shows there are many who go through the same thing. Different points of view are one thing; insinuations that you are a liar is quite another. There were no apologies for accusations made with no evidence at all.
As for the real number of posters who stop because of these knee-jerk attacks, I don't know a lot of hobbyists personally. But I know three out of the few I do know who have stopped. It's a small pool of people but it still adds up to 35-40% and that seems damn high. They had been involved with Bigdoggie, Canbest, and Merb. But the viciousness of some was so beyond reason that they were too disgusted to keep posting. So don't think there isn't a significant effect even if it is just 10%. And believe me...they were very, very active and had a great deal of valuable insight to offer this board. Respected by many, gravely insulted by some persistent troublemakers, this information is no longer available for your use. It's a huge loss to all.
Good luck,
Korbel
Korbel, my comments were directed at the newbie posters as they are the subject of the thread. You bring up a totally different set of circumstances. There are many reasons why a long time poster leaves the boards. We recently lost one and I feel the board is poorer for it. But attacking a well known poster is a different animal and should be dealt with in a different thread.
Techman said:
That's odd because most adults I know in "normal life" don't go about making knee-jerk accusations towards people they don't know and then go "oops! sorry" if they are wrong. They subscribe to the usual "innocent until proven guilty" approach, not the "shoot and ask questions after" approach. So you've got this backwards. The childish behavior comes from those who believe that, because they are hiding anonymously behind a computer, they can do whatever they want including accusing and insulting people they don't know on an internet forum.
But yeah, such behavior is nothing new on internet forums and you do need somewhat of a thicker skin in that context but do you really want a forum to be known for the atmosphere of suspicion and paranoia it cultivates? I certainly woudn't.There are too many self-appointed vigilantes who feel it's their duty to police this forum. One more time, shills are eventually going to get caught. You suspect someone of being a shill? Then e-mail a mod about it and let the shill busting process run it's course.
Many boards require new members to post an introduction before making any posts in the other areas. What we often see here is one new poster asking a question about some sp, mp, whatever... Then we have another new poster raving about the quality of service he/she received from this provider. These are almost always shills. New posters making reviews, good or bad, will always be suspect. It's the nature of the boards and that will not change. As long as newbies don't take the time to learn how the board works they'll be suspect. We have people posting that they are "long time lurkers" but still don't know what daty means! Where the hell have they been lurking?
As far as hiding behing the computer goes, well anyone who wants to meet many of us only has to stop by one of the gt's, either at Cleo's or HDLM. Maybe you'll get lucky and we'll accuse and insult you face to face But I'm sure some people will just show up and lurk in the shadows just like they do on the board and never introduce themselves. Don't worry...we don't bite.
As far as hiding behing the computer goes, well anyone who wants to meet many of us only has to stop by one of the gt's, either at Cleo's or HDLM. Maybe you'll get lucky and we'll accuse and insult you face to face
But I'm sure some people will just show up and lurk in the shadows just like they do on the board and never introduce themselves. Don't worry...we don't bite. Maxima said:??????
Call this an exageration is an understatement.
Exageration?
YOU BET!!!
Hididng behind a computer and handle for shill is lot worse than calling a shill a shill.
They talk about paranoia,I,m not sure whose paranoia is worse.
perhaps my personal problem?
I whole-heartedly agree with Techman, post #65.
Lone Rider, post #27 makes great reference, as to accepted, expected format. Cosmo makes good sense, in regard to respect earned, the intervention of respected, established members, and the responsibility of the Mod’s. With all these factors taken into consideration, I am comfortable in agreeing with Doingittodeath, as previously stated, I will let the board decide.
I choose not to delve into the limitless physiological, psychological understanding of why anyone does what they do. All I will suggest is, it goes much deeper then ego or money and has nothing to do with making a smart purchase. This is also why I made light of certain analogies in my previous reply, while I was getting “all bent out of shape” in distorting what someone said, related to the consumerism associated with being an educated shopper, when in essence we are talking about the realization in providing and sharing of one’s trust and one’s self, as a supplier and a client. Seriously, not some materialistic possession.
For one minute, let’s just think about any of the women on this board, which we know, respect, enjoy and lets keep the obvious initial intent out of the equation for now. Let’s keep our needs, our selfishness, our desires out of this. We just like them for the person they are, as an acquaintance, as a friend! Quite simply, how about as human beings!
How many times does anyone think a target could survive a hit like the following? In answering my own question, in my opinion,………..not many!
Maxima example:
>"so and so service is excellent...I love our bareback FS session" could destroy a career in sping).<
And let’s be honest. Who has not witnessed this type of posting? How many other replies follow the initial posting with inquires such as:
What’s her website? Her rate? How MSOG?,…… before something is done. Perhaps they don’t know any better.
While this is going on and as we know, many of the ladies read the board. Actually, forget reading the board. Imagine a client regurgitating and expecting the fulfillment of a particular desire based on even a short-lived review from the board and referencing it as such. Especially now that he’s pissed off cause he knows it’s not gonna happen.
God forbid we should stop to consider what this chosen individual might be feeling, what her thoughts might be, what potential ramifications it could have on her safety, self-esteem, livelihood and in some cases her family? How long does it take for something to become fact? No, it does not happen often, but once is too many times.
How much discussion is devoted to YMMV vs. GFE and it’s meaning? Oh that’s different, because it’s all about the basis for our fantasy, because that’s what we supposedly paid for. Convince me, that in part this is not deception and if we, the board, are doing such a great job with awareness, then why the need for the icons?
I know, all in due time,…….. all in due time.
Very, very few of the ladies on this board have the benefit, of a
well-deserved established history or the extraordinary luxury of supportive clientele. For those, which do not, does any of this sound familiar:
blame it on the Mod’s for not minding the store.
oh,….. that’s just Tony.
well, no one forced her to be in this business.
so what, she’s making a great living.
yeah, my experience with her wasn’t great either, she probably deserved it.
As another example, I will offer one of my own experiences.
I had booked a large quantity of time with a woman, through an agency in Vancouver. As much of my desire was to experience some of what Vancouver as a city had to offer, the trip was mostly predicated on the companionship of this individual during my stay.
I thought I had done my homework, I had read the only reviews available at the time on the boards, regarding the lady and the agency. Admittedly, some were less then stellar in regard to the agency, but nothing objectionable about my choice. Photo’s supposedly substantiated her likeness and existence. This and the salesmanship associated with the representative were the key components in my decision. I offered the representative, as best as one could, what I was hopeful of achieving during my visit and during our time together. I blocked out my desired schedule over the course of my 3-day visit, in several conversations with the agency representative. I confirmed the information, the night before my departure.
I touched base with the agency to confirm my arrival late that afternoon and reconfirm the first of my multiple hour appointments during my visit, for early that evening. The women, who showed up at my door was not even close, visually or ethnically, to my confirmed choice. I mention this, as I had a particular interest in sharing my experience with an Asian woman. I called the agency, to inquire what was up and of course, the representative I had dealt with had left for the evening. This new individual assured me this was the woman I had chosen. Please, how does someone confuse a petite, seemingly gorgeous Asian woman, with an attractive 5ft/7in Caucasian blonde?
I decide to make a go of it for this part of my trip and deal with the rest as it happened. We headed down Robson Street to my favorite sushi bar. After dispensing some idle chitchat and during our 30-minute wait, I am politely seething the entire time yet hopeful this could still work. We entered the restaurant. At this point she realizes we have entered a sushi-bar and suggests, “I don’t eat this shit”. Even though I told her we were headed to Tsunami Sushi, she either failed to make the connection or was not interested at the time. I hailed her a cab, handed her $300.00 dollars and sent her on her way. I returned to my room, called the agency again and was assured, the person I originally dealt with would return my call, but it would not happen until the following day. As everyone has guessed, they never extended me the courtesy.
I spent the rest of my visit solo. Yes, I did eat at Tsunami Sushi and went to Granville Island. I rode the ferry to Vancouver Island and did the walk-about in historic Gastown.
This was not about getting/or not getting laid. Finding a substitute upon my arrival was not part of the equation. My adventure, fantasy, call it what you like, was based on supposed, substantiated information, thus the expectation of my anticipated global experience. It was for the most part, the main reason I booked the trip. So you may ask the question, “What if the described, legitimized woman had showed up and the whole thing sucked anyway”? I certainly would not have been pissing and moaning about it. I would have rolled with it, just as I did. I would have assumed some of the responsibility for my disappointment and the fallout, but deception and misinformation would not have been part of the equation. At the time, being inexperienced, being trusting was certainly not worthy of suggesting, I got what I deserved.
My loss:
Countless hours of planning, back and forth on this imaginary persons likes and dislikes, along with my own/our itinerary.
In general, a waste of 4 days of my time, which included travel.
A waste of my vacation, time off from work.
My self esteem as I felt violated, angry and yes, stupid!
Oh and,……..my hard earned money. I am not talking about the money I forked over, even though it was not insignificant.
I am not comparing my situation to the actuality, which has witnessed itself in regard to some of the reviewed ladies on this board, as these repercussive examples cut much deeper. But please, do not compare this to the unknown potential of some unknown’s feelings being soured by someone they don’t even know, which just happens to be a member, of just some other adult review board.
A lot of what I have been reading makes reference to the droves of willing participants, who don’t want to play on the board, because they feel they have been violated, treated rudely or just plain bitch slapped. Why? Perhaps and because they cannot invest 10 minutes, referencing any of the examples of meaningful behavior and protocol provided by all of us, including the Mod’s. I, just as anybody, can reference many new members, who just simply get it, and they are acknowledged accordingly and no one suggests anything.
Who on this board is not appalled, not so much by a review such as: “ I fucked her, I came, she was hot”, but by the attitude and arrogance of the poster. God forbid, if any of us ask for some specifics, which at times are replied with, “How dare you mo&%erf@*ker”. At times these are exactly the qualities exemplified by person’s posting bull-shit. This self-fulfilling, self-serving, non descript offering and retort bares all the earmarks and is usually synonymous with be a shill. And even if this person is not,….I think you get it.
As to the unrealized potential, suggested by supportive enablers who clamor for growth and increased audience participation and as they suggest…lighten up. In that 2-day window before the Mod’s take him down, when JakeTheSnake shows up with his newest “love-handle-alias”, how many posts will he start and how many replies will he offer and receive, as we certainly do not want to suggest the material appears suspect, based on the fact, it’s a new handle?
Seeing how some of us are fond of analogies and to those more sympathetic then I. I liken many of the replies, to verification of individual behavior, as in those that will stop and stare at a car crash. Gawk and do nothing. Let someone else take care of it,…….God forbid, you might be sued for trying to help someone? Drive on, drive on….
You should be ashamed!
I whole-heartedly agree with Techman, post #65.
Lone Rider, post #27 makes great reference, as to accepted, expected format. Cosmo makes good sense, in regard to respect earned, the intervention of respected, established members, and the responsibility of the Mod’s. With all these factors taken into consideration, I am comfortable in agreeing with Doingittodeath, as previously stated, I will let the board decide.
I choose not to delve into the limitless physiological, psychological understanding of why anyone does what they do. All I will suggest is, it goes much deeper then ego or money and has nothing to do with making a smart purchase. This is also why I made light of certain analogies in my previous reply, while I was getting “all bent out of shape” in distorting what someone said, related to the consumerism associated with being an educated shopper, when in essence we are talking about the realization in providing and sharing of one’s trust and one’s self, as a supplier and a client. Seriously, not some materialistic possession.
For one minute, let’s just think about any of the women on this board, which we know, respect, enjoy and lets keep the obvious initial intent out of the equation for now. Let’s keep our needs, our selfishness, our desires out of this. We just like them for the person they are, as an acquaintance, as a friend! Quite simply, how about as human beings!
How many times does anyone think a target could survive a hit like the following? In answering my own question, in my opinion,………..not many!
Maxima example:
>"so and so service is excellent...I love our bareback FS session" could destroy a career in sping).<
And let’s be honest. Who has not witnessed this type of posting? How many other replies follow the initial posting with inquires such as:
What’s her website? Her rate? How MSOG?,…… before something is done. Perhaps they don’t know any better.
While this is going on and as we know, many of the ladies read the board. Actually, forget reading the board. Imagine a client regurgitating and expecting the fulfillment of a particular desire based on even a short-lived review from the board and referencing it as such. Especially now that he’s pissed off cause he knows it’s not gonna happen.
God forbid we should stop to consider what this chosen individual might be feeling, what her thoughts might be, what potential ramifications it could have on her safety, self-esteem, livelihood and in some cases her family? How long does it take for something to become fact? No, it does not happen often, but once is too many times.
How much discussion is devoted to YMMV vs. GFE and it’s meaning? Oh that’s different, because it’s all about the basis for our fantasy, because that’s what we supposedly paid for. Convince me, that in part this is not deception and if we, the board, are doing such a great job with awareness, then why the need for the icons?
I know, all in due time,…….. all in due time.
Very, very few of the ladies on this board have the benefit, of a
well-deserved established history or the extraordinary luxury of supportive clientele. For those, which do not, does any of this sound familiar:
blame it on the Mod’s for not minding the store.
oh,….. that’s just Tony.
well, no one forced her to be in this business.
so what, she’s making a great living.
yeah, my experience with her wasn’t great either, she probably deserved it.
As another example, I will offer one of my own experiences.
I had booked a large quantity of time with a woman, through an agency in Vancouver. As much of my desire was to experience some of what Vancouver as a city had to offer, the trip was mostly predicated on the companionship of this individual during my stay.
I thought I had done my homework, I had read the only reviews available at the time on the boards, regarding the lady and the agency. Admittedly, some were less then stellar in regard to the agency, but nothing objectionable about my choice. Photo’s supposedly substantiated her likeness and existence. This and the salesmanship associated with the representative were the key components in my decision. I offered the representative, as best as one could, what I was hopeful of achieving during my visit and during our time together. I blocked out my desired schedule over the course of my 3-day visit, in several conversations with the agency representative. I confirmed the information, the night before my departure.
I touched base with the agency to confirm my arrival late that afternoon and reconfirm the first of my multiple hour appointments during my visit, for early that evening. The women, who showed up at my door was not even close, visually or ethnically, to my confirmed choice. I mention this, as I had a particular interest in sharing my experience with an Asian woman. I called the agency, to inquire what was up and of course, the representative I had dealt with had left for the evening. This new individual assured me this was the woman I had chosen. Please, how does someone confuse a petite, seemingly gorgeous Asian woman, with an attractive 5ft/7in Caucasian blonde?
I decide to make a go of it for this part of my trip and deal with the rest as it happened. We headed down Robson Street to my favorite sushi bar. After dispensing some idle chitchat and during our 30-minute wait, I am politely seething the entire time yet hopeful this could still work. We entered the restaurant. At this point she realizes we have entered a sushi-bar and suggests, “I don’t eat this shit”. Even though I told her we were headed to Tsunami Sushi, she either failed to make the connection or was not interested at the time. I hailed her a cab, handed her $300.00 dollars and sent her on her way. I returned to my room, called the agency again and was assured, the person I originally dealt with would return my call, but it would not happen until the following day. As everyone has guessed, they never extended me the courtesy.
I spent the rest of my visit solo. Yes, I did eat at Tsunami Sushi and went to Granville Island. I rode the ferry to Vancouver Island and did the walk-about in historic Gastown.
This was not about getting/or not getting laid. Finding a substitute upon my arrival was not part of the equation. My adventure, fantasy, call it what you like, was based on supposed, substantiated information, thus the expectation of my anticipated global experience. It was for the most part, the main reason I booked the trip. So you may ask the question, “What if the described, legitimized woman had showed up and the whole thing sucked anyway”? I certainly would not have been pissing and moaning about it. I would have rolled with it, just as I did. I would have assumed some of the responsibility for my disappointment and the fallout, but deception and misinformation would not have been part of the equation. At the time, being inexperienced, being trusting was certainly not worthy of suggesting, I got what I deserved.
My loss:
Countless hours of planning, back and forth on this imaginary persons likes and dislikes, along with my own/our itinerary.
In general, a waste of 4 days of my time, which included travel.
A waste of my vacation, time off from work.
My self esteem as I felt violated, angry and yes, stupid!
Oh and,……..my hard earned money. I am not talking about the money I forked over, even though it was not insignificant.
I am not comparing my situation to the actuality, which has witnessed itself in regard to some of the reviewed ladies on this board, as these repercussive examples cut much deeper. But please, do not compare this to the unknown potential of some unknown’s feelings being soured by someone they don’t even know, which just happens to be a member, of just some other adult review board.
A lot of what I have been reading makes reference to the droves of willing participants, who don’t want to play on the board, because they feel they have been violated, treated rudely or just plain bitch slapped. Why? Perhaps and because they cannot invest 10 minutes, referencing any of the examples of meaningful behavior and protocol provided by all of us, including the Mod’s. I, just as anybody, can reference many new members, who just simply get it, and they are acknowledged accordingly and no one suggests anything.
Who on this board is not appalled, not so much by a review such as: “ I fucked her, I came, she was hot”, but by the attitude and arrogance of the poster. God forbid, if any of us ask for some specifics, which at times are replied with, “How dare you mo&%erf@*ker”. At times these are exactly the qualities exemplified by person’s posting bull-shit. This self-fulfilling, self-serving, non descript offering and retort bares all the earmarks and is usually synonymous with be a shill. And even if this person is not,….I think you get it.
As to the unrealized potential, suggested by supportive enablers who clamor for growth and increased audience participation and as they suggest…lighten up. In that 2-day window before the Mod’s take him down, when JakeTheSnake shows up with his newest “love-handle-alias”, how many posts will he start and how many replies will he offer and receive, as we certainly do not want to suggest the material appears suspect, based on the fact, it’s a new handle?
Seeing how some of us are fond of analogies and to those more sympathetic then I. I liken many of the replies, to verification of individual behavior, as in those that will stop and stare at a car crash. Gawk and do nothing. Let someone else take care of it,…….God forbid, you might be sued for trying to help someone? Drive on, drive on….
You should be ashamed!
Too narrow.
Hello Techman et al,
Yes, I understood the immediate target of this thread. And if some are slightly annoyed that I have gone beyond this intention I guess they may have some slight legitmate grievance. But I disagree firmly that my responses refer to a "totally different set of circumstances". The essence of this thread is respect for opinions in my view and the right of posters to make any respectfully written statement without unwarranted attacks. It is not simply about first timers. That is my view. Besides, haven't you and others indicated we should not be too serious about things? And now you want to limit the parameters of the thread strictly to a very narrow subject area. I don't think my extension of the principle issue involved in this thread to veteran hobbyists is very much of a change...if it is really any true change at all. First Timer or Veteran, both are simply equal contributors...no matter how many times they have posted previously. So I respectfully disagree with the limits you seek to maintain on this thread. And, if you are implying that newbies are fair game (I am not saying you are) I vehemently disagree.
Whether you are talking about First Timers or Veterans my point remains absolutely the same. There is a certain behavior that is even beyond "childish" as JustBob said; there is maliciousness employed by some posters. It is malicious because insults or attacks are hurled without cause, before any real indication the targeted hobbyist has said or done anything unfair, spiteful, or deliberately deceptive. With some exaggeration there is a sort of "burn the village" mentality to be sure the guilty one doesn't get away. Let's throw some mud and see if any of it might stick somewhere. And to paraphrase JustBob...it is done from the safety of being behind a computer almost like it's a sport where points are awarded for knocking off shills regardless of wounding the innocent. Any child can call someone a shill or a liar. But it takes a maturity to have the patience to prove it. YES...we should not be too serious about the boards, but if anyone thinks it's just a joke to be vicious toward still innocent hobbyists...you need to take a good look at the issues between your ears. I don't agree that this board as under an "atmosphere of suspicion and paranoia" generally. But there are definitely some callous THUGS out there...some self-appointed bully-boys who seem to enjoy indulging their arrogance with pure malice at times. Like playground adolescents they seem to make a sport of random attacks just to see who they can sting for the fun of it. As for me, I can take a deserved rebuke like a man, but why do some seem to get off on cheap shots with such frivolous disregard for integrity.
So what is the solution: a presumption of innocence until there is GOOD cause for otherwise. Then, if there seems to be cause..."email a mod about it and let the shill busting process run it's course."
regards,
Korbel
Hello Techman et al,
Yes, I understood the immediate target of this thread. And if some are slightly annoyed that I have gone beyond this intention I guess they may have some slight legitmate grievance. But I disagree firmly that my responses refer to a "totally different set of circumstances". The essence of this thread is respect for opinions in my view and the right of posters to make any respectfully written statement without unwarranted attacks. It is not simply about first timers. That is my view. Besides, haven't you and others indicated we should not be too serious about things? And now you want to limit the parameters of the thread strictly to a very narrow subject area. I don't think my extension of the principle issue involved in this thread to veteran hobbyists is very much of a change...if it is really any true change at all. First Timer or Veteran, both are simply equal contributors...no matter how many times they have posted previously. So I respectfully disagree with the limits you seek to maintain on this thread. And, if you are implying that newbies are fair game (I am not saying you are) I vehemently disagree.
Whether you are talking about First Timers or Veterans my point remains absolutely the same. There is a certain behavior that is even beyond "childish" as JustBob said; there is maliciousness employed by some posters. It is malicious because insults or attacks are hurled without cause, before any real indication the targeted hobbyist has said or done anything unfair, spiteful, or deliberately deceptive. With some exaggeration there is a sort of "burn the village" mentality to be sure the guilty one doesn't get away. Let's throw some mud and see if any of it might stick somewhere. And to paraphrase JustBob...it is done from the safety of being behind a computer almost like it's a sport where points are awarded for knocking off shills regardless of wounding the innocent. Any child can call someone a shill or a liar. But it takes a maturity to have the patience to prove it. YES...we should not be too serious about the boards, but if anyone thinks it's just a joke to be vicious toward still innocent hobbyists...you need to take a good look at the issues between your ears. I don't agree that this board as under an "atmosphere of suspicion and paranoia" generally. But there are definitely some callous THUGS out there...some self-appointed bully-boys who seem to enjoy indulging their arrogance with pure malice at times. Like playground adolescents they seem to make a sport of random attacks just to see who they can sting for the fun of it. As for me, I can take a deserved rebuke like a man, but why do some seem to get off on cheap shots with such frivolous disregard for integrity.
So what is the solution: a presumption of innocence until there is GOOD cause for otherwise. Then, if there seems to be cause..."email a mod about it and let the shill busting process run it's course."
regards,
Korbel
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Once again I just can't believe how some can't take a blow on a board.
Like it,s the end of the world.
About malicious behavior;well it all depends on wich side of the fence you are.Some might take my or Techman's comments as malicious but how about the other side?I find some remarks and insinuations quite malicious,it all depends on how you see it.
Won't make me quit or keep me from sleeping though.
Like it,s the end of the world.
About malicious behavior;well it all depends on wich side of the fence you are.Some might take my or Techman's comments as malicious but how about the other side?I find some remarks and insinuations quite malicious,it all depends on how you see it.
Won't make me quit or keep me from sleeping though.
Malicious???
Hello Cosmo,
As you read, there were no names mentioned and any perceived insinuations were not intended for any specific individual. I will let everyone deal with their own consciences. If someone thinks my comments are referring to them then they may see cause in their own past actions to be concerned.
I am not sure who you are referring to when you say: "Once again I just can't believe how some can't take a blow on a board." I have not seen or felt a "blow" toward me personally so I am not trying to defend against one. Perhaps this remark is not meant for me. I am just speaking both on principle and from personal experience in the past.
Sleep well,
Korbel
PS
Maybe you should edit your last sentence in the post just above to avoid its implications. It sounds a bit defensive. I don't think you meant it to seem that way.
Hello Cosmo,
As you read, there were no names mentioned and any perceived insinuations were not intended for any specific individual. I will let everyone deal with their own consciences. If someone thinks my comments are referring to them then they may see cause in their own past actions to be concerned.
I am not sure who you are referring to when you say: "Once again I just can't believe how some can't take a blow on a board." I have not seen or felt a "blow" toward me personally so I am not trying to defend against one. Perhaps this remark is not meant for me. I am just speaking both on principle and from personal experience in the past.
Sleep well,
Korbel
PS
Maybe you should edit your last sentence in the post just above to avoid its implications. It sounds a bit defensive. I don't think you meant it to seem that way.
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Korbel said:
Korbel,
Since you feel that it's the mods job to police the board maybe they should edit my last sentence.
Yes I ,and I'm sure others have felt a bit pointed at by the malicious accusations just as some have seen targeted by the thin skin comments.
Don,t need Cluso to figure that out.
When I say that some can't take a blow it means just that;No big deal beign called a shill on an internet board-should we call 911?
I think shilling is worst IMH0
Beleive me, I slept very well.
Clearer
Hello Cosmo,
I am not sure you have understood me. Uncovering a shill, those who promote false or baseless information to divert money for themselves and perhaps ruin an otherwise enjoyable time for the hobbyist victim, is something no one could object to. I support that 100%. I thought that was understood and it seemEd like such a no-brainer that I did not think it was necessary to state it so precisely. But if it will make my view clearer for all...here it is.
My quarrel is against unfounded "knee-jerk" accusations in the matter of uncovering shills and also in matters where hobbyists are attacked for their reviews and opinions due to unfounded suspiscions or because someone is offended due to some sort of emotional "bias" or...whatever. Attacking alleged shills, or hobbyists without some decent measure of just cause is an act of random bullying. What you and your like-minded supporters can offer to clean out true offenders is very welcome. But, anyone who throws mud without cause just to see if it will stick is also offensive. Be clear that I am not labelling you or anyone else under any terms. I am just voicing my own personal view of where the ethical boundaries ought to be in principle. I do not expect anyone to agree necessarily. I am only responding to your posts in particualr since they allow me the opportunity to compare and discuss points of view. That's all. You are accused of nothing and I was not implying you have anything to lose sleep over. If you have taken what I have written personally...REMEMBER...you are NOT accused. I accused the abhorrent actions I have described only. If someones conscience itches because of this, it is their doing...not mine.
I must not forget to mention one vital fact in your seeming assessment that I am probably alluding to you when I describe the actions I find offensive. It was the subject of this thread that motivated me to respond on it. I have NEVER READ ANY OF YOUR POSTS outside of this thread. So how can I accuse you of anything. VRAIMENT!
Regards,
Korbel
PS
I have seen the damaging effect of maliciously being called a shill on a friend first hand. Have you?
Hello Cosmo,
I am not sure you have understood me. Uncovering a shill, those who promote false or baseless information to divert money for themselves and perhaps ruin an otherwise enjoyable time for the hobbyist victim, is something no one could object to. I support that 100%. I thought that was understood and it seemEd like such a no-brainer that I did not think it was necessary to state it so precisely. But if it will make my view clearer for all...here it is.
My quarrel is against unfounded "knee-jerk" accusations in the matter of uncovering shills and also in matters where hobbyists are attacked for their reviews and opinions due to unfounded suspiscions or because someone is offended due to some sort of emotional "bias" or...whatever. Attacking alleged shills, or hobbyists without some decent measure of just cause is an act of random bullying. What you and your like-minded supporters can offer to clean out true offenders is very welcome. But, anyone who throws mud without cause just to see if it will stick is also offensive. Be clear that I am not labelling you or anyone else under any terms. I am just voicing my own personal view of where the ethical boundaries ought to be in principle. I do not expect anyone to agree necessarily. I am only responding to your posts in particualr since they allow me the opportunity to compare and discuss points of view. That's all. You are accused of nothing and I was not implying you have anything to lose sleep over. If you have taken what I have written personally...REMEMBER...you are NOT accused. I accused the abhorrent actions I have described only. If someones conscience itches because of this, it is their doing...not mine.
I must not forget to mention one vital fact in your seeming assessment that I am probably alluding to you when I describe the actions I find offensive. It was the subject of this thread that motivated me to respond on it. I have NEVER READ ANY OF YOUR POSTS outside of this thread. So how can I accuse you of anything. VRAIMENT!
Regards,
Korbel
PS
I have seen the damaging effect of maliciously being called a shill on a friend first hand. Have you?
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Hi Korbel,
Thanks for clearin that out.
I agree almost 100% with all of you comment but please spare me the ''damaging effect of maliciously being called a shill'' rant.
COME ON!!!!
It's not like beign accused of mureder or rape and have your face in all papers and tv,only to be proven innocent 10 years later.(hint hint).
And to answer your question;No I haven't and even if I would I would just tell the friend to shrug it off ,ignore it, and life goes on,no big deal.
bye
Thanks for clearin that out.
I agree almost 100% with all of you comment but please spare me the ''damaging effect of maliciously being called a shill'' rant.
COME ON!!!!
It's not like beign accused of mureder or rape and have your face in all papers and tv,only to be proven innocent 10 years later.(hint hint).
And to answer your question;No I haven't and even if I would I would just tell the friend to shrug it off ,ignore it, and life goes on,no big deal.
bye
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Can you be more over dramatic? Damaging effect of being called a shill? What happened, did he turn into a drug addict, alcoholic, attempt suicide?
Whats the worst thing that can happen? He leaves the board and doesn't come back? Is the board so important in his life that he can't live without it? C'mon be serious here. If someone's mental well being or their life is affected by what happens on the board they need immediate psychological help. This thread is turning into a joke.
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