Jump-to-the-gun comments about (possible) shills for the first timers

[korbel]

Each to his own.

Hello Cosmo and Techman,

Geeeeez...I have never seen anybody reprint my entire long posts for quotation before. I did not realize every single word would be that important to anyone. It's a strange sight to see. By the way, both of you have been unfamiliar to me until this thread.

Obviously no one put a gun to his own head over being called a shill. You are right that it is simply not as serious as that. But I wonder if you have really thought about what the word is saying about someone? A person posts some information about an agency or some ladies and he/she is called a shill. So what is the person being called on a public board, and in the case I referred to, he was very well known and popular: and respected up until then. The label says in effect...you are a liar...you are trying to cheat people...your word has no integrity...you should be banned so you will not be heard again. That is not a frivolous matter for those who value their credibility. And for those who are accused falsely and have to endure a piling on of unfounded accusations...to have a well known name dragged into the sewer...it's no joke at all. This gentleman was a heavy and creditable contributor. Now he contributes nothing.

Yeah, these types of accusations aren't earth-shattering. Yeah, life goes on and every one can learn to handle...whatever...whether it's very small or shattering. But when anyone tries to justify unfounded insults and attacks by
saying...sometimes we do get the shills so it's justifed ...or..."shrug it off , ignore it, and life goes on, no big deal"...that attitude is a bit too frivolous for me. The tactic described in the thread are little more than playground humiliation with no accountability. It's callous...and it's malicious because it's random and it doesn't seem to care who is innocent and who is guilty. But it's not just a frivolous matter.

Techman said: "Whats the worst thing that can happen? He leaves the board and doesn't come back?" Techman...the most valuable thing on a board like this is creditable information for all of our benefits. Losing a highly creditable person is the "worse thing" possible. Don't you get that?????????? "C'mon!" Joke over.

Well, I have said all I want to on this thread. I am probably done here unless I see something by more contributors. I leave the thread to those with more ideas...and those who think it is a "joke".

Enjoy,

Korbel

 

[Techman]

Korbel, you are completely correct. A poster's credibility is very important. It also has to be earned and it takes more than a couple of posts to do so. It also takes more than one shill accusation to destroy a poster's credibility. I said it before and I will repeat it here...if a shill accusation is enough to chase you from the board you don't belong here to begin with. When a credible poster is accused the other board members always come to their defense. And usually the one making the accusation is a newbie to the board looking either for revenge or to make a name for himself. It's very rare to see a senior member, or any other credible member attacked for shilling.

And by the way, we almost always get the shills, not just sometimes. And the ones we don't get tend to just fade away. Except for Tony of course, but that's a case all in itself. A phsyciatrist could write a book on him and have enough left over for a trilogy.

 

[Cosmo]

Techman,

You take the words out of my keyboard.
Some people accuse us of taking this board waaayyyyy too seriously but ...look who's talking!
Talk about beating a dead horse!
btw,we did loose a VERY credible member recently,of course not for shilling but he was damn good at spoting them.

 

[mrten]

Just a question

Who here was actually falsely accused of being a shill. I do know that there have been a few (miscarriage of vigilante justice) cases but in reality I wonder what the ratio is.

 

[asimplepicture]

the rest of the playing field??????

mrten;

In my first post, I made reference to 2 individuals. The first was accused by someone other then I. The second certainly was me.

Am I proud of the fact,……..no.
Did I admit publicly that I unfairly judged, Yes!
Did I apologize, Yes!

From my original posting on this subject:

>With that said, both HonestAbe and Incognito have expressed their experiences. I have never had issue with Abe but I believe I am the one Incog refers to in his reply. If you notice, both of them remain on the board.<

>Was this fair to Abe & Incog? Probably not, but I believe this is the nature of our indulgence, especially when it combines the lethal combination of money, sex and ego. Does this justify my behavior, certainly not, but I am just as accountable in my admission, as they are in the passion of their contributions.<

As for your question.
I only mention this as a precursor for understanding, as there will be several sides, at least two, to every motivation and explanation of circumstance. In fairness and without assuming a defensive or preconceived justifiable posture, it would be important to understand the global totality for the presumptions and results.

>Who here was actually falsely accused of being a shill. I do know that there have been a few (miscarriage of vigilante justice) cases but in reality I wonder what the ratio is.<

As I like the question and if we were to take the initiative, please include and be considerate of, what I believe are also associated liabilities. For starters:

How many SP’s, MP’s have either limited their availability or left the industry altogether because of lies, perpetrated on their behalf? What was their associated liability to self, family, safety and/or resources?

Can we please quantify the residual effects of some unknown suggesting someone is less then truthful, compare to the reality associated with a provider expected to perform in the context of a documented, reviewed, review and flat-out lie of services provided?

How many agencies, in our opinion, continue to run successful enterprises based either solely or in part on deception?

What is the global sense of loss among client casualties, in the scope of self, time and resources? How many established hobbyists have ceased indulging in the industry because they fell prey?

Who either as a previous or current member of this board has been threatened, via PM or publicly, by an exposed shill?

 

[asimplepicture]

please consider this......

Dahlia:

In all do respect and let me start by suggesting, I realize you disappeared for a little while. Actually, 42 replies took place regarding this topic while you were away. No, I will not qualify your post #51 as anything meaningful to what you so conveniently refer to as, “the original thread”.

As an aid to my own understanding, in trying to assist and contribute to members/participants, the lurkers, and those categorized as victimized by vigilante justice, I attempted to offer my perspective along with the contributions of many, many others.

Please consider the obligation one assumes in remaining cognizant of the effort required in imparting information in a forum of this nature. Especially when some of it, was specific to your lack of understanding and your lack of courage, as you suggested was the case. This is actually, the reason I devoted nearly an entire post to your questions, along with trying to provide understanding for what the issues were, for everyone, including myself. But to follow my contribution with the following request,………

>Gentlemen! Be gentlemen and do try to go easier, especially on a new SP who just doesn't have any gumption about what a shill is.<

…….suggests to me, a blatant disregard in acknowledging the effort in addressing what you asked for, which appeared to be fundamental to you understanding and participating. Please do not suggest courage, or gumption as you put it, has anything to do with your comprehension of the term shill. Especially when definition and example were offered prior to your, above-mentioned statement. I blame myself for taking the initiative.

At the very least, extend the courtesy of acknowledging a question or contribution directed for/to you, about your needs/understanding or what your feelings may or may not be. I offer just one example of what I am suggesting:

>Dahlia offered more a point of view of an SP than the one of a hobbyist. However we should not forget that a shill can write a negative review to destroy a competitor (we saw that happened many times already, for example a statement like: "so and so service is excellent...I love our bareback FS session" could destroy a career in sping). I wonder what Dahlia would think if a first-timer said something like: "I love Dahlia's bbfs or I think I catch something from Dahlia..". How long would Dahlia want such shilling to stand?<

To aid in my understanding, I for one, am dying to experience your input regarding this question, as it pertains directly to some of my issues and the topic of shilling? Call this my own selfish motivation, but I did not ask the question. If you do not have the gumption, I can accept that. But in reading your contributions, I do not feel this is an acceptable excuse for non-participation, as you have done remarkably well, specific to your own agenda. I believe a women’s perspective regarding this question would not only be enlightening, but embraced. Please be mindful, nearly 1900 viewers to date, have paid you, me and all the contributing members to this post, the courtesy of reading, perhaps considering, trying to wrap their heads around, the material presented.

>I was just brainstorming and trying to find a 'quick-fix' for the shill problem.<

I am quite sure there exists no “quick-fix”, as witnessed by the tonnage of opinion and contribution regarding this topic. Here is an opportunity for you to offer something specific and helpful. It certainly requires the responsibility of communicating, potentially first hand experience, certainly first hand potentially factual opinion, and does not require brainstorming. Unlike many of your assumptions and the associated packaging, you will not be aligned with misinterpreting what you read,

>is that what i read??<

as this will come from your heart, your mind, regardless of which, certainly from you!

I am sure you are a lovely, delightful individual. I personally find all women lovely by default. In reading your contributions, I find you potentially engaging, certainly smart and articulate. Not to speak on everyone’s behalf, but I am sure this is potentially something we could all agree on and look forward to.

thanks!

 

[korbel]

Dahlia

Hello Dahlia,

Very good point. Well said. I would send a PM but it is not offered under your name. Good luck.

Regards,

Korbel

 

[korbel]

Dahlia...Roland is wrong...if.

Hello Roland,

I don't know the history behind Dahlia's posts on this issue or your corresponding posts replying to her. But on the surface it looked mean and pretty arrogant...a bit like someone who seems to presume to be the master all mighty lecturer of the boards. Can you post your certification(s) and the authority source that bestowed the postition you seem to assume as a "Lord of the Board". Surely you have the capacity to be more respectful even when you firmly disagree. Your rebuke of Dahlia seemed so personal that it also seemed like there is some unknown alterior motive. It was like you met Dahlia in the hobby and you have this virulent dislike for her because of something negative between the two of you. Yes, this may well be way off base. But that was the firm impression.

Also, when you told Dahlia the hobbyist who on longer posts "left because of a person dispute" I grant that you were not talking about the same person I was. If you were then you are wrong. There is probably no way to confrim this since I will not drag his hobby name up again because there would proably be another mud slinging orgy. But the gentleman I was referring to was extremely angry and disgusted with the muck slingers; the KNEE-JERK vigilantes who attacked him with such perfect ignorance of the true situation. So to Dahlia: Roland cannot be referring to the same person. There is simply more than one person who has been falsely libeled and lost to this board. That's inevitable when there are attacks without cause or proof.

regards,

Korbel

 

[asimplepicture]

Let's revisit the topic, potential shills and first time posters.
My offering:

>Call it guilt by association but it really has nothing to do with whether or not someone is new but everything to do with whether they have an established history and credibility, which by definition, a newbie would not have. This is not discriminatory but a truism associated with the reality. Please be mindful, a shill is not specific to anyone, certainly not newbies but unfortunately and more often then not, is the case. Why, because obviously somebody new had to create a new post to offer the suspect information.<

My Dahlia:

I thank you for being courteous with your response.

My point, in mentioning the posts and as you are aware.
Much had transpired during your absence, in the form of information and opinion. When you decided to begin again, to contribute, I felt some of the territory you chose to mention had already been addressed. In attempting to continue moving forward and avoid what I felt could turn into a digression, and you know how much I like to digress, I chose an ill advised manner in describing such. This paragraph is specific to your lack of contribution from posts #47 through #89 and excluding #51.

>Post 51 was addressing Cosmo. It has nothing to do with this thread title, and makes no claim to do so.<

That was exactly my point. It had nothing to do with the thread, the title or the thread title. Perhaps I aired in my judgment in extending you the courtesy of reading your post and trying to comprehend it. I originally thought the intent of the effort you put forth in writing something subject to a discussion, was to have it read, in the context of the thread and your thoughts on the subject. My mistake.

>As far as that question in concerned regarding how long i would want a nasty-shill to be there saying such lies about me?<

Exactly, just as you asked it,…….but…….you still did not answer the question! Everyone now knows you do not offer BBFS. You were very clear on this topic. In your arrogance you ask:

>Why should i even answer such a thing!?<

I do not know.
This has thrown me for a loop, as you are the one who brought it up. You are the one who has offered, through your own agenda, your menu and the position of clarity of behalf of your patrons.

The original question was asked specific to, as in:
Shilling to:
>destroy a competitor<

If you do not understand, simply make an effort to check the reference and follow the progression.

The request was for,…. simply put. How would you feel?
Implied was:
Would you be hurt? Would you consider leaving the business? Would you only deal with your regular clients? And on, and on………

Which is exactly the reason I suggested we consider in our thinking, the example of someone like you, someone in the business, a general opinion from a woman in the trade. You were referenced by default, because if we follow the threads, we will see you just happened to be a woman, with a contributing opinion, named Dahlia. This was/is not about you or your services rendered. Dahlia, I could care less about your customer service policy.
I wish to God, at this point it was someone else, someone named, Mavis,…..Betty,……or Louise.

The example from post #92:
>How many SP’s, MP’s have either limited their availability or left the industry altogether because of lies, perpetrated on their behalf? What was their associated liability to self, family, safety and/or resources?<

>I hope i answered you to your liking.<

Got it!
You are beyond reproach, unlike the victimized women in this industry, unlike anyone who ever has or will be, taken advantage of or slandered in their alignment with this industry.
We know you do not concern yourself with how you might feel because you are clear and your clients already know, exactly what is deemed acceptable and truthful. As we all know, shills are all about dispensing the truth and would never misappropriate anything.

Let’s put the shills on notice. Dahlia will remain exempt from any ill will you may attempt to impose on her behalf.

I rescind my courtesy and compliments directed to you. I believe you are in denial in their perpetuity. You are the perfect enabler for this type of behavior.

I have revised my position,………and in the event, I will enable them to exist with impunity and without suggestion of impropriety. As a suggestion to those of us that will fall prey, to either Agency, SP, MP whatever P, which by review we already knew many were deceptive, do not write a review, which exemplifies more often then not,.... that this is the case. Let’s just take our lumps, chalk it up to experience and strap on that adult-kimbie. Let’s just act like the victimized bitch that we are and keep our mouths shout, cause God forbid………..

 

[korbel]

Proper response.

Hello all,

I thought the exchanges between some hobbyists were far out of line. In my opinion there were only two ways to deal with that sort of thing if you were on the receiving end of these exchanges. Speak to the challenge maturely by doing what can be done to reduce the anger and get back on track, or notify the MODS to get something done if the "stuff" continues. I hope the deletions and disciplinary action by Mod 5 will bring this thread back to positive contributions for now on.

Good posting,

Korbel

 

[JustBob]

Any posters must be able and willing to back up their posts or be strong enough to "eat crow."

Well then, I'm looking forward to posters providing evidence to support their shilling accusations. If not they should be strong enough to "eat crow" too.

They will also be able to learn and grow from this , which will help them in their day to day life.

I'll be happy to help some members grow and mature if I can.

 

[HonestAbe]

If you get wrongly accused you'll get an apology.

I'm still waiting for mine, not holding my breath though. (No I don't mean from you Techman) I'm talking about the one who insinuated I was a shill because my first post was negative in nature towards his buddy who ran the agency he just happened to be posting about all the time. As a matter of fact I think he reviewed damn near every single girl in that agency within 6 months of my post. HMMMM.

To put it into perspective for everyone, I do not get upset thinking about it, actually I laugh the more I think about it because sometimes things are so obvious and we either can't see or don't wan't to see the truth. I used to be one of those people but I learned, with the help of some "Senior" posters, how this game is played and from some "lurking and learning" of my own. I know better than to get wrapped up in this stuff now and it certainly doesn't make me want to drink, do drugs or committ suicide. If anyone is getting depressed because of Merb, seek professional help NOW.

Some Senior posters are on the up and up but its up to the newbies to figure it out for themselves. Only VIGILANCE over time will reveal the truth to those who want to see it. Perhaps newbies are better off to not care what anyone says and just post their accounts, everything will come out in the wash. Happy hobbying!

 

[mrten]

I'm still waiting for mine, not holding my breath though. (No I don't mean from you Techman) I'm talking about the one who insinuated I was a shill because my first post was negative in nature towards his buddy who ran the agency he just happened to be posting about all the time. As a matter of fact I think he reviewed damn near every single girl in that agency within 6 months of my post. HMMMM.

To put it into perspective for everyone, I do not get upset thinking about it, actually I laugh the more I think about it because sometimes things are so obvious and we either can't see or don't wan't to see the truth. I used to be one of those people but I learned, with the help of some "Senior" posters, how this game is played and from some "lurking and learning" of my own. I know better than to get wrapped up in this stuff now and it certainly doesn't make me want to drink, do drugs or committ suicide. If anyone is getting depressed because of Merb, seek professional help NOW.

Some Senior posters are on the up and up but its up to the newbies to figure it out for themselves. Only VIGILANCE over time will reveal the truth to those who want to see it. Perhaps newbies are better off to not care what anyone says and just post their accounts, everything will come out in the wash. Happy hobbying!

Now how could someone ever suspect someone with a name like Honest Abe to not be honest? Not me, for sure. Unless it was Honest Abe's Used Cars, but that's another story.

 

[HonestAbe]

I am sure that whoever accused your fisrt post did it not because of you personally but because of the huge number of shills who were caught on this Board. You only have to see here: https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4715

You have proven your credibility since then. You surely don`t approve shilling do you?
Here, to show my appreciation of your contribution, I present my apology to you. I have no idea and I do not care who did attack your first post, I think what is important is that you know that your contribution is appreciated.
I hope this makes you feel less bitter.

Thats nice of you to say Max and I`m not even bitter, salty I `ve been told but thats another story. I just can`t understand why the person who did it didn`t acknowledge the slight and apologize for it. I found much more about THEIR (pattern of) reviews at the time to be "questionable" than my own. Not that I am saying I know for certain that this person is a pimp or has a hand in the business of the particular agency I reviewed or was receiving special discounts for all the positive reviews they wrote for that particular agency but doesn`t it seem peculiar that they would have the audacity to question me because I had a problem with the agency OWNER, NOT THE GIRLS? As a matter of fact I had NOTHING BUT GOOD things to say about the GIRLS(it was a menage a trois).

Again I`m not going to accuse this person of anything, this is just to prove a point that while he was speculating about me openly on the board perhaps he was deserving of some speculative questioning himself. My post wasn`t even the kind a shill would write. Shills either promote or defame the girls, they don`t complain about the way they were treated by the owner and then have the owner come out publicly and admit that the story is true and apologize.

I have seen derogatory reviews written about girls that I really liked but I didn`t immediately cast suspicion upon the person writing the review, at most I may have asked for a clarification as to what exactly happened. Point is, that it isn`t for anyone of us to take on the roles of accuser, judge, and jury. Like I said before everything comes out in the wash and if you pay attention around here you can get a pretty good idea of who the insiders are and who they are not. Then you can make an informed decision as to who you trust for accurate information on girls. What does that mean? Well, sometimes the ones who are so quick to accuse others don`t look so innocent themselves.

The poster I speak of is still well known here but has only acknowledged my presence one other time since then and it was only for another prying question designed to figure something out about me. In addition they have responded indirectly(without addressing me) to statements I have made on this issue with disdain/sarcasm. I`m not looking for a fight with them so I`m just going to leave the door open for them to apologize and make it right. Not that I`ll lose sleep over it if they don`t but why not just say "Hey, sorry man, no offense intended, I jumped the gun and you proved me wrong."