The Death Penalty to 40 years old Vince Li !! See him I have the link !!

[alice_wonderland]

And by the way, eye for eye is a 2000 + year old policy. Maybe we can evolve past dusty books now?

Alice

 

[eastender]

Ban the Bus!!!!!!!!!!!

I can see Canada government response to this..how the geniuses running (ruining) the country will come out with a new Knife registry program..all knives..including potatoe peelers will need to be registered...then all Canadians will be safe...

SA

Suspect they will ban bus travel.

 

[YouVantOption]

Well this may be powerful rhetoric but making the statement that you don't know what the answer it but the death penalty isn't it is not very helpful. Perhaps you could give us some ideas as to what you feel the answer is.

Our present system is fine.

As for what can go wrong in evidentiary chains, as I said in a previous post, this argument can cut both ways.

indeed it can.

Asserting that we can rehabilitate such killers and releasing them back into society is simply playing Russian Roulette with our lives.

First off the recidivism rate among murders is extremely low. Far less than 1 in six, if a traditional revolver is used for your game of Russian Roulette. What is interesting is that the recidivism rate of other crimes, especially violent crimes i much higher, and the rate of murderers being recidivist and moving up to more serious crimes is quite high, which would lead us to the logical conclusion that we should lock people up for life for shoplifting, just in case.

http://www.sgc.wa.gov/PUBS/Recidivism/Adult_Recidivism_CY04.pdf

However as I said in a previous post, if you can guarantee that it will be mandated that these killers will spend the rest of their natural lives in prison then I will meet you half way on that one. But in the present climate of ( and I wont use the term bleeding hearts) a legal system pressured to be soft on crime don't bet the rent money that at some point in the future those guilty of monstrous acts wont be released back into our midst.

There was much hysteria about Karla Homolka being released. I don't recall seeing her walking down Monkland with a severed head in her arms, or raping babies. What she did was evil, pure and simple. Now, she is out, back in society, and to the best of our knowledge, a productive member of it.

The Canadian penal system is based upon two premises: punishment and rehabilitation (this is a refinement from the Quakers whose notions were initially only punishment). The lack of death penalty makes me proud to be a Canadian, proud to live here.

So sure, lock them up, and if they can be rehabilitated, release them, after a suitable period of time for punishment has passed.

But, 100% guarantee? No such thing, as that bus ride clearly indicated.

Anyway, fuck it. I'm driving next time I need to go to Saskatchewan, forget the bus.

 

[Techman]

Yes, there are always examples of failures, and they are made high profile, but every system is imperfect, and in the majority of the cases, it works. Even in murder cases.

And here are some examples of failures:

Ruben 'Hurricane' Carter
Donald Marshall
Guy Paul Morin
David Milgaard
Wilbert Coffin


Your comment works both ways.

Also, you mentioned cutting off someone's head who broke into your home. How does the punishment of breaking and entering justify you meting out the death penalty?

You are totally correct. I will remove his hands instead. Unless he has a gun. Or if I miss. I could always just slice him in two. It's like a roach motel...they check in but they don't check out.

 

[Daringly]

ok now you are out of the thread's subject...both of you should put the other on their "ignore list"..then you wont see what the other write

Oh i can read his posts and still ignore him

 

[Daringly]

It's like a roach motel...they check in but they don't check out.

I thought that was the hotel california

 

[hungry101]

I am against the death penalty because it is a permanent thing, and if a mistake is made, there is no way to compensate the condemned. Keep him or her in jail, we can always give them a lump sum as restitution should it be discovered they aren't guilty.

Yes and when they are in prison they can watch flat screen TVs, play softball, basketball, take classes, lift weights, send poison pen letters, have conjugal visits, make unlimited phone calls and maybe give a few interviews so that someone can write a book and profit off all this. They get free health care, 3 square meals and a place to sleep while the rest of us suckers work to pay for their worthless asses.

Oh, and then there's the whole thing about the extremely low rate of recidivism among murderers as opposed to many other crimes.

I have heard this and I have seen a few of these guys first hand. These are guys that caught their wife cheating and lost it or got in an argument and shot someone etc. but this is not a crime a of passion. This guy set out to cut someones head off.

I'd like to say it again, I've personally met, known, and loved at least 20 murder victims, including a large group of teens who were mass murdered. Can anyone else here say that?

How is it you know so many murder victims? This seems odd to me. I guess a guy I went to highschool with was gunned down in a bar fight. Maybe they need to institue the death penalty in your neighborhood or city where you live? Maybe some of those 20people that you knew and loved so well would be alive today. Could you have preemptively stopped any of this? I'll bet Manson doesent know 20 murder victims. Maybe Son of Sam does.

These people are worthless scum and the most heinous should be put to death before some bleading heart like YVO goes to bat for them and argues that they lived a disadvantaged childhood or they learned to read in prison etc. and now we need to let them go. They slip thorugh the cracks and get out due to overcrowding or a computer glitch and they murder again.

Potential solution: Lets build a cell for death row inmates in YVO's basement. He can care for them and feed them. Maybe they can play word association games and look at ink blots until they are cured? How would you sleep at night YVO Mr. Bleeding heart?

Instrad of lifting a finger for these murderers why don't you expend this energy giving blood, raising money for huricane katrina victems, the march of dimes etc. You could rake the leaves on the lawn of some invalid or join Habitat for Humanity. Maybe you could even raise money for a vicims rights advocacy group?

 

[Techman]

Originally Posted by YouVantOption
So sure, lock them up, and if they can be rehabilitated, release them, after a suitable period of time for punishment has passed.

Killers should be released when their victims can be brought back to life.
Anyone who deliberately takes a life for any other reason other than self defense should never walk the streets as a free man again. Why should they have a life when their victims have none.

And before you get into things such as euthanasia, abortion, etc... that is a totally different subject. I am talking about criminal acts.

 

[hungry101]

Interesting. So why then is killing another person acceptable under certain circumstances?

So they will not kill again!!!

 

[Regular Guy]

I do not gamble so I wont bet life. And not someone else life for sure. I say IF he is paranoid schizophrene he need to be put in hospital for life. Do you know what paranoid schizophrene is like? I give exemple of my friend's ex I know very well. He heavily sedated now and like walking dead. I say the man who kill is victim and should go back on street after doctor say 'ok, he is sick, give meds and send back home and hope he take them'??? No. I know my english not THAT bad. I say interned and medicated for life. This is possibility. More expensive possibility from death penalty, but I feel better with this. IF this man have paranoid delusion before he kill you think is good to put in prison for life? There is no death penalty in Canada anyway. Maybe Canada should sign agreement with US to ship all crazy people to Texas so they can be fry? Oh, this is right: decision to take off death penalty is made by people elected. Who elect them? We. So no death penalty = decision of majority vote who put in office = us. Vote Harper again and next term we get abortion illegal and age consent of sex 18. I'm sure if you write letter you can have death penalty put as new bill on agenda too. Gamble for majority conservative goverment for it passing though

Thank you,

Alice

Okay Alice you win But will you at least agree with me that extremely dangerous killers be at least put in prison for life and that no one (no judge, parole board, psychologist etc.) except the Prime Minister with a special pardon can allow them back into society at any time? If we can agree on that I will meet you half way.

 

[Techman]

The guy will probably find some blood sucking lawyer and sue the other passengers of the bus and charge them with forcible confinement and assault because they kept him from leaving the bus.

 

[YouVantOption]

Yes and when they are in prison they can watch flat screen TVs, play softball, basketball, take classes, lift weights, send poison pen letters, have conjugal visits, make unlimited phone calls and maybe give a few interviews so that someone can write a book and profit off all this. They get free health care, 3 square meals and a place to sleep while the rest of us suckers work to pay for their worthless asses.

If i was gay, it'd be great! But wait, if prison is the wonderland you paint it why aren't people breaking IN?

This guy set out to cut someones head off.

We don't know what, if anything was going through his mind.

How is it you know so many murder victims? This seems odd to me.

2 individual murders, as I said, and one mass murder.

Maybe they need to institue the death penalty in your neighborhood or city where you live?

Oh great! I was wondering when someone would try the 'deterrent' argument instead of falling back on the old saw 'save the taxpayers money' and 'we demand biblical punishment!'

OK. So what is the murder rate in Texas, where they kill you for killing? What is the annual number of executions in Saudi Arabia for crimes the populace are made well aware?

Could you have preemptively stopped any of this?

Yes, I wanted to help to solve world hunger and over-population. Thinking back, there might be better ways to do that.

These people are worthless scum and the most heinous should be put to death before some bleading heart like YVO goes to bat for them and argues that they lived a disadvantaged childhood or they learned to read in prison etc. and now we need to let them go. They slip thorugh the cracks and get out due to overcrowding or a computer glitch and they murder again.

Murderers to not get out due to over-crowding. One does have to ask why prisons are over-crowded, however. And again, recidivism among murderers is infinitesimally infrequent. But keep beating that drum long enough, someone will believe you, even if it isn't true.

Potential solution: Lets build a cell for death row inmates in YVO's basement. He can care for them and feed them. Maybe they can play word association games and look at ink blots until they are cured? How would you sleep at night YVO Mr. Bleeding heart?

Instrad of lifting a finger for these murderers why don't you expend this energy giving blood, raising money for huricane katrina victems, the march of dimes etc. You could rake the leaves on the lawn of some invalid or join Habitat for Humanity. Maybe you could even raise money for a vicims rights advocacy group?

How do you know that I don't already? By the way, I do love it when people tell me what I should do. I always have a suggestion ready at hand for such instances, on activities they can undertake.

Such an evocative image. Butter churning comes to mind.

 

[alice_wonderland]

Okay Alice you win But will you at least agree with me that extremely dangerous killers be at least put in prison for life and that no one (no judge, parole board, psychologist etc.) except the Prime Minister with a special pardon can allow them back into society at any time? If we can agree on that I will meet you half way.

I would agree, and he probable get life in prison like you want and not hospital. So my possibility is useless. But life in prison = 25 years minus 1/3 (if good). In psych hospital is life = till dead. So I like better hospital. Where do you want to meet?

Alice

 

[alice_wonderland]

If i was gay, it'd be great! But wait, if prison is the wonderland you paint it why aren't people breaking IN?

Hey, I have copyright on that! Wonderland and murder thread dont go together. Be careful to talk bad of my world or I throw you down rabbit hole.

Thank you,

Alice

 

[Regular Guy]

and the rate of murderers being recidivist and moving up to more serious crimes is quite high, which would lead us to the logical conclusion that we should lock people up for life for shoplifting, just in case.

I don't mean to seem obtuse but I am having a bit of trouble with this especially the part where muderers move up to more serious crimes and the logical conclusion from that.

There was much hysteria about Karla Homolka being released. I don't recall seeing her walking down Monkland with a severed head in her arms, or raping babies. What she did was evil, pure and simple. Now, she is out, back in society, and to the best of our knowledge, a productive member of it.

Well Karla does quite fine when she has an instrument like Mr Bernardo as a partner in crime. And just keeping her nose clean doesn't quite qualify as "productive member of society" for me as evidenced by her choice of boyfriend when she got out.

The Canadian penal system is based upon two premises: punishment and rehabilitation (this is a refinement from the Quakers whose notions were initially only punishment). The lack of death penalty makes me proud to be a Canadian, proud to live here.

So sure, lock them up, and if they can be rehabilitated, release them, after a suitable period of time for punishment has passed.

Sure rehabilitate all the shoplifters you like. But until you can guarantee me 100% that those who commit horrendous acts can be rehabilitated successfully then as far as I am concerned we cannot risk it. I want to be there when you try to explain to the next father holding his son's head in his hands that you could have sworn that he was successfully rehabilitated. Oh well! That's the way the cookie crumbles. But we'll get it right the next time for sure. Not with my family you wont!

 

[korbel]

How do you know, with 100% certainty, that the entire event was not a frame-up? I am not saying it was, I am saying that the police have a lot of investigatory work to do before we will know the facts, which is how we convict people. With facts, no (justifiably) hysterical eye-witness accounts.

Do we know for certain the victim didn't provoke or threaten, or hurt the accused?

There are any number of questions that need to be answered before leaping to conclusions and convicting Li, let alone putting the guy to death, which won't happen anyway, thank heavens, in this country.

Hello YVO,

I'm not going to mince words with your post...you are being RIDICULOUS! Whatever more there may be to it, slaughtering a sleeping person is...do I really have to say "inexcusable"? Are some of us so far gone that this is necessary. I don't know the nuances of Canadian law, but in the U.S. there has to be an imminent threat before you can justify defending yourself to the point of killing another person. What threat did a sleeping person pose to anyone? Maybe it was that deadliest of weapons...snoring. I do remember how American Old West gunman John Wesley Hardin once allegedly shot a guy for snoring. Ah there's the precedent. But that is in the U.S. and the law did not excuse Hardin anyway.

YVO, you are right to say people shouldn't jump to conclusions. But it's funny to me how quickly some jump to the defense in a purported attempt to play devil's advocate when they know nothing either. In this case one fact seems perfectly clear. The victim was beheaded at a moment when he was absolutely no possible threat to anyone. So there was no possible cause for this slaughter....at least in U.S. law.

C'mon,

Korbel

 

[YouVantOption]

Interesting. So why then is killing another person acceptable under certain circumstances?

So they will not kill again!!!

We kill people all the time, every day for reasons other than that.

And for, what, the fourth time? The likelihood of a murderer killing again is extremely rare. So say the statistics. Damn the facts though, eh? We want blood! We demand retribution!

 

[Regular Guy]

I would agree, and he probable get life in prison like you want and not hospital. So my possibility is useless. But life in prison = 25 years minus 1/3 (if good). In psych hospital is life = till dead. So I like better hospital. Where do you want to meet?

Alice

I can't quite go 25 minus 1/3. How about he gets out when he is 70? I figure most people can run faster than a guy with a walker.
I'll get back to you on the "meet" part.

 

[Techman]

Hey, I have copyright on that! Wonderland and murder thread dont go together. Be careful to talk bad of my world or I throw you down rabbit hole.

Thank you,

Alice

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderland_Murders

Sorry, but since it was brought up...

Originally Posted by YouVantOption
We kill people all the time, every day for reasons other than that

We do? Who? When? Examples please? We ahve no death penalty as you have pointed out so who is doing the killing and why are they not in jail?

Originally Posted by YouVantOption
And for, what, the fourth time? The likelihood of a murderer killing again is extremely rare. So say the statistics. Damn the facts though, eh? We want blood! We demand retribution!

Ah yes. The ever popular statistics. They are so comforting to the family and friends of the 'rare' murderer who does kill again. Those who are executed never kill again. Not one of them. How are those stats for ya?

 

[Daringly]

Sometimes when murderers are not taking care of bad things happen to innocent people. Now i know their life's weren't important.


http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/news/story.html?id=26b4bee0-9d5e-44f0-bb17-4d208b6bbd31