2013/2014 Official NHL Thread
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We can't score, and our youngsters aren't developing
Silfverburg looked great last night for Anaheim
Anaheim made us look like the Smurfs of old...
Best Regards
Smuler
Smuler,
There are plenty of examples including the 2 goalies used by the Blackhawks last year and the Bruins when they won the Cup a few years ago when they were rotating Tuuka Raask and Tim Thomas. It was obvious that Raask was one of the better young goalies in the league but by playing Raask as much as they did, the Bruins lit a fire under Thomas' aging ass, and he played the best hockey of his life as a result.
Iggy and Reverdy seem to think you just hand the job to Bernier due to his 1st round pedigree, but sometimes you get guys playing better and keep them sharp by having a competition and telling them the starting job goes to who plays best. I think the Leafs rotate Reimer and Bernier for 40 games until one proves clearly better, otherwise keep rotating.
Last year same thing with Blackhawks when they had the current starter Crawford, and Ray Emery who both played well. Both guys were used in the regular season before Crawford established himself as a "main man goalie" during the playoffs.
There are plenty of examples including the 2 goalies used by the Blackhawks last year and the Bruins when they won the Cup a few years ago when they were rotating Tuuka Raask and Tim Thomas. It was obvious that Raask was one of the better young goalies in the league but by playing Raask as much as they did, the Bruins lit a fire under Thomas' aging ass, and he played the best hockey of his life as a result.
Iggy and Reverdy seem to think you just hand the job to Bernier due to his 1st round pedigree, but sometimes you get guys playing better and keep them sharp by having a competition and telling them the starting job goes to who plays best. I think the Leafs rotate Reimer and Bernier for 40 games until one proves clearly better, otherwise keep rotating.
Last year same thing with Blackhawks when they had the current starter Crawford, and Ray Emery who both played well. Both guys were used in the regular season before Crawford established himself as a "main man goalie" during the playoffs.
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I believe that was the plan until Reims had a really bad game and Bernier came in to save the game for us and thus has been a wall in his next 2 games, thus earning him a 3rd straight start likely sat night and if he continues to be the stud he was predicted to be, he wont be looking back and will have won the #1 job much sooner than most thought, but we will see.
The Leafs have the luxury of having two #1 calibre goalies and will go with the hot-hand, as coach Carlyle has said from day 1. If Bernier continues playing great, it would be a boneheaded move (which Ron Wilson might have made) to switch goalies at this point. So if Bernier continues playing great, i'd expect Reimer to get a start only in a back-to-back game scenario.
Former Leaf & current Sportsnet hockey insider Nick Kypreos has stated on several occasions recently that he does not expect James Reimer to finish the season in Toronto. Personally, i hope this isn't the case since it's always good to have a high-quality backup goalie in case the #1 gets injured. But Reimer's stock is starting to rise considering several teams have began to struggle at the starting goalie position. One clear example that comes to mind is Edmonton. And rumours are that Roberto Luongo still would like to be traded from Vancouver. Are two backup goalies in Philly the answer?
Let's just say that Reimer's contract is currently extremely cap-friendly for any team that would like to acquire him. If the Leafs do decide to (reluctantly) part with Reimer, the price to pay will be high.
Former Leaf & current Sportsnet hockey insider Nick Kypreos has stated on several occasions recently that he does not expect James Reimer to finish the season in Toronto. Personally, i hope this isn't the case since it's always good to have a high-quality backup goalie in case the #1 gets injured. But Reimer's stock is starting to rise considering several teams have began to struggle at the starting goalie position. One clear example that comes to mind is Edmonton. And rumours are that Roberto Luongo still would like to be traded from Vancouver. Are two backup goalies in Philly the answer?
Let's just say that Reimer's contract is currently extremely cap-friendly for any team that would like to acquire him. If the Leafs do decide to (reluctantly) part with Reimer, the price to pay will be high.
You can't make rational decisions about players after 1 bad game, or 2 straight good ones. I say rotate Reimer and Bernier for 40 games, and then look at their stats and decide if 1 of them deserves to start most games, or whether a continued rotation is in order. It is way early in the season to be benching people or riding a hot hand.
You also devalue Reimer for trade purposes if you do not play him. When you don't play a player, you send a message around the league that you think he sucks. If any of you guys read Phil Esposito's book you would know that when he was GM of the Rangers he had a severe falling out with coach Michel Bergeron because Bergeron would bench guys for irrational reasons, devalue them for trade purposes, and then Espo could not trade them for fair value. Esposito absolutely kills Bergeron in his book and describes the meeting in which he fired Bergeron with tremendous glee and joy (he called Bergeron a backstabber in the meeting). Espo also accused Bergeron of continually pestering him to trade for washed up French Canadian players like Michel Goulet. Espo told Bergeron he would trade for the best guys regardless of ethnicity.
You also devalue Reimer for trade purposes if you do not play him. When you don't play a player, you send a message around the league that you think he sucks. If any of you guys read Phil Esposito's book you would know that when he was GM of the Rangers he had a severe falling out with coach Michel Bergeron because Bergeron would bench guys for irrational reasons, devalue them for trade purposes, and then Espo could not trade them for fair value. Esposito absolutely kills Bergeron in his book and describes the meeting in which he fired Bergeron with tremendous glee and joy (he called Bergeron a backstabber in the meeting). Espo also accused Bergeron of continually pestering him to trade for washed up French Canadian players like Michel Goulet. Espo told Bergeron he would trade for the best guys regardless of ethnicity.
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Good point. Also in reference to your other post about the Thomas-Rask duo, the Bruins were VERY fortunate that they were able to get Rask from the Leafs and as we all know Rask is one of the top goalies in the league. BTW it will be interesting to see how Timmy's "aging ass" does this year, but no matter HOW well he plays he won't be getting any invitations to the White House.
There is a lot of merit to rotating goalies when they are equals. In the current case of the Leafs, though, it does make sense to go with the hot hand since both goalies are far from proven commodities. Bernier has had a few decent games, while Reimer was yanked in his last outing after allowing 4 goals on only 21 shots, but that doesn't mean that Bernier is better: it just means he's been hotter recently in a VERY short and statistically invalid number of games. Let him run with it until he boots a game and then put Reimer back in and give him the same chance. Eventually the Leafs might figure out which of their goalies (if either) is better. Right now they're both unproven commodities.
It all goes back to being drafted in the first round for Bernier, there have been busts over the years sure, but many many goalies they are taken early are the real deal. If Bernier keeps playing lights out then the good Dr. is correct, you ride the hot hand and give Reims the start in the second game of a back to back. If Bernier slumps then it is nice to have Reimer to fall back on. Either way the Leafs have a pretty nice situation in goal at the moment, something they have not had in YEARS. It is very refreshing for a change, thats for sure.
Anyways i trust Pierre Lebruns hockey expertise and all he has ever said since JB was drafted is he is gonna be a STUD one day in the NHL.
Anyways i trust Pierre Lebruns hockey expertise and all he has ever said since JB was drafted is he is gonna be a STUD one day in the NHL.
So far in 3 games he has a GAA of 5.02 and a save percentage of .850:
http://espn.go.com/nhl/player/stats/_/id/1207/tim-thomas
One week into the season!! Woohoo!!! Start planning the parade, or I should say, enjoy it while it lasts because we all know the final outcome
Hahahaha.
Please enlighten us, Mr. White, with your tremendous HOCKEY knowledge in what that final outcome could be.One week into the season!! Woohoo!!! Start planning the parade, or I should say, enjoy it while it lasts because we all know the final outcome
p.s. I'll make a prediction: if the Bruins keep on playing at their current pace for the next 35 games, Cam Neely will get his wish (and excuse) and will fire coach Claude Julien, a tremendous coach (i.m.h.o) whom he has been trying to fire for the past 2 seasons.
Regarding the rotation of goalies.....
It has only happened on one occasion during Randy Carlyle's coaching career that he's had a goalie playing more than 60 games. That happened back in Anaheim when he had J-S Giguere & Ilya Bryzgalov has his goalies, with Giguere getting the bulk of playing time.
Carlyle is a believer in the philosophy that keeping an active goaltending competion going, whether fabricated or not, keeps his goaltenders sharp and focused. He doesn't like any goalie getting too comfortable into thinking that he's got the #1 job locked up.
So expect either Bernier or Reimer to get about only about 60-65% of the starts.
Carlyle also doesn't want any goaltender to be burnt out by the time the playoffs arrive, as we've seen with some goaltenders (e.g. Carey Price) in the past.
p.s. I can't see Tim Thomas finishing the season. He's been away from the game for too long for someone his age. I'll also predict that he won't finish the season in Florida. He'll either be dealt (maybe Edmonton?) or will retire. I suspect one of the main reasons why he decided to return to the game was to play in the Olympics, but i doubt he'll even get chosen for the team.
It has only happened on one occasion during Randy Carlyle's coaching career that he's had a goalie playing more than 60 games. That happened back in Anaheim when he had J-S Giguere & Ilya Bryzgalov has his goalies, with Giguere getting the bulk of playing time.
Carlyle is a believer in the philosophy that keeping an active goaltending competion going, whether fabricated or not, keeps his goaltenders sharp and focused. He doesn't like any goalie getting too comfortable into thinking that he's got the #1 job locked up.
So expect either Bernier or Reimer to get about only about 60-65% of the starts.
Carlyle also doesn't want any goaltender to be burnt out by the time the playoffs arrive, as we've seen with some goaltenders (e.g. Carey Price) in the past.
p.s. I can't see Tim Thomas finishing the season. He's been away from the game for too long for someone his age. I'll also predict that he won't finish the season in Florida. He'll either be dealt (maybe Edmonton?) or will retire. I suspect one of the main reasons why he decided to return to the game was to play in the Olympics, but i doubt he'll even get chosen for the team.
More from Pierre LeBrun, on Jonathan Bernier
Trading Bernier still bothers Kings' GM
By Pierre LeBrun | October 11, 2013 3:02:17 PM PDT
The scene was London, England, late September 2007.
Dean Lombardi had been on the job as GM of the Los Angeles Kings for just under a year and a half. As we watched his team practice at the 02 Arena before a regular-season game with the Anaheim Ducks, Lombardi pointed to the teenage goalie on the ice.
The kid was Lombardi’s first draft pick as Kings GM, 11th overall in the 2006 draft. His name was Jonathan Bernier.
It was an important decision, Lombardi would explain that day, because he felt the Kings had not drafted and developed their own bona fide No. 1 goalie in a very, very long time, if ever.
For some reason, I always remember that conversation with Lombardi. I just remember how glowingly he spoke of Bernier’s potential. So you can bet that the man who traded Bernier to the Toronto Maple Leafs is the last person on Earth to be surprised by the goaltender's hot start.
"It doesn’t surprise me at all," Lombardi told ESPN.com Friday. "We knew this guy. After the trade, he sent me a text to thank me for trading him. I replied back, 'I just wish I could have been Glen Sather and had Moog and Fuhr but that is impossible today.'"
In Lombardi’s dream scenario, Jonathan Quick and Bernier would play their careers together in L.A. and give the Kings the best one-two punch in the NHL for a decade, as the 1980s Oilers had with Grant Fuhr and Andy Moog. But reality dictated otherwise. In the salary cap era with Bernier’s contract coming up this past summer, Lombardi knew he couldn’t keep both. He also knew Bernier had grown tired of his secondary role in L.A. and there was no way the Kings could ever placate the young goalie’s needs behind Quick, a Conn Smythe Trophy and Stanley Cup winner signed to a long-term deal.
So Lombardi promised Bernier a deal and he delivered, but the trade remains difficult for the Kings GM to stomach.
"I don’t think any general manager wants to be in that position where you have to trade a player and he’s a really good player," Lombardi said.
"What makes this tough is that it’s procedural, you have to move him, it’s not even a hockey deal, you’re looking for an asset deal."
What made it worse for Lombardi is that he doesn’t feel other NHL teams fully realized Bernier’s potential and value.
"You've got something that's valuable that you have to move, but the market doesn’t recognize it," Lombardi said.
"[Toronto GM] Dave Nonis was really the only one who was seriously interested in him. Everyone else was just tire-kicking. I was shocked at the lack of real interest. He had proven himself again last season. The other reason I think people overlook Bernier is because he is small; they overlook his hockey sense, which is his best asset.
"I give Nonis a lot of credit. A week after he got the [GM] job [in Toronto], he was all over Bernier."
At the time, however, Lombardi didn’t want to pull the trigger with Toronto early in the lockout-shortened season.
"We almost had a deal at the beginning of last season, but I was really nervous about Quick coming back from his back surgery," Lombardi said. "And thank God we didn’t make the deal then because sure enough, we don’t make the playoffs without Bernier. But I had to move him after the season."
Bernier was traded to Toronto on June 23 in exchange for forward Matt Frattin, backup goalie Ben Scrivens, a second-round pick in either the 2014 or 2015 draft, plus about $500,000 in retained salary by Toronto to help the Kings’ cap situation.
Given his lack of options, I think Lombardi did a decent job here. Frattin, in particular, can be a player.
But now Bernier’s start in Toronto shows the world why this was a tough pill to swallow for Lombardi.
"Like is said, I give Nonis a lot of credit, he saw the value in Bernier," the Kings GM said.
http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nhl&id=27109&src=desktop
Trading Bernier still bothers Kings' GM
By Pierre LeBrun | October 11, 2013 3:02:17 PM PDT
The scene was London, England, late September 2007.
Dean Lombardi had been on the job as GM of the Los Angeles Kings for just under a year and a half. As we watched his team practice at the 02 Arena before a regular-season game with the Anaheim Ducks, Lombardi pointed to the teenage goalie on the ice.
The kid was Lombardi’s first draft pick as Kings GM, 11th overall in the 2006 draft. His name was Jonathan Bernier.
It was an important decision, Lombardi would explain that day, because he felt the Kings had not drafted and developed their own bona fide No. 1 goalie in a very, very long time, if ever.
For some reason, I always remember that conversation with Lombardi. I just remember how glowingly he spoke of Bernier’s potential. So you can bet that the man who traded Bernier to the Toronto Maple Leafs is the last person on Earth to be surprised by the goaltender's hot start.
"It doesn’t surprise me at all," Lombardi told ESPN.com Friday. "We knew this guy. After the trade, he sent me a text to thank me for trading him. I replied back, 'I just wish I could have been Glen Sather and had Moog and Fuhr but that is impossible today.'"
In Lombardi’s dream scenario, Jonathan Quick and Bernier would play their careers together in L.A. and give the Kings the best one-two punch in the NHL for a decade, as the 1980s Oilers had with Grant Fuhr and Andy Moog. But reality dictated otherwise. In the salary cap era with Bernier’s contract coming up this past summer, Lombardi knew he couldn’t keep both. He also knew Bernier had grown tired of his secondary role in L.A. and there was no way the Kings could ever placate the young goalie’s needs behind Quick, a Conn Smythe Trophy and Stanley Cup winner signed to a long-term deal.
So Lombardi promised Bernier a deal and he delivered, but the trade remains difficult for the Kings GM to stomach.
"I don’t think any general manager wants to be in that position where you have to trade a player and he’s a really good player," Lombardi said.
"What makes this tough is that it’s procedural, you have to move him, it’s not even a hockey deal, you’re looking for an asset deal."
What made it worse for Lombardi is that he doesn’t feel other NHL teams fully realized Bernier’s potential and value.
"You've got something that's valuable that you have to move, but the market doesn’t recognize it," Lombardi said.
"[Toronto GM] Dave Nonis was really the only one who was seriously interested in him. Everyone else was just tire-kicking. I was shocked at the lack of real interest. He had proven himself again last season. The other reason I think people overlook Bernier is because he is small; they overlook his hockey sense, which is his best asset.
"I give Nonis a lot of credit. A week after he got the [GM] job [in Toronto], he was all over Bernier."
At the time, however, Lombardi didn’t want to pull the trigger with Toronto early in the lockout-shortened season.
"We almost had a deal at the beginning of last season, but I was really nervous about Quick coming back from his back surgery," Lombardi said. "And thank God we didn’t make the deal then because sure enough, we don’t make the playoffs without Bernier. But I had to move him after the season."
Bernier was traded to Toronto on June 23 in exchange for forward Matt Frattin, backup goalie Ben Scrivens, a second-round pick in either the 2014 or 2015 draft, plus about $500,000 in retained salary by Toronto to help the Kings’ cap situation.
Given his lack of options, I think Lombardi did a decent job here. Frattin, in particular, can be a player.
But now Bernier’s start in Toronto shows the world why this was a tough pill to swallow for Lombardi.
"Like is said, I give Nonis a lot of credit, he saw the value in Bernier," the Kings GM said.
http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nhl&id=27109&src=desktop
Not surprising. He's old!
But can he play baseball?? If so, the Yankees might just come calling next season. Even better for him if he can pitch southpaw!
Please enlighten us, Mr. White, with your tremendous HOCKEY knowledge in what that final outcome could be.
p.s. I'll make a prediction: if the Bruins keep on playing at their current pace for the next 35 games, Cam Neely will get his wish (and excuse) and will fire coach Claude Julien, a tremendous coach (i.m.h.o) whom he has been trying to fire for the past 2 seasons.
The same final outcome the Leafs have endured for the past 46 years, that of complete failure & futility. Have you been tunneling Joe.t with your predictions? How you can make such an ignoramous like statement 3 games into a season is beyond belief.
Hey did any of you guys see this own goal by the Canucks? Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-57hNBzkUvY
Eller got credit for the goal and he was not even on the ice. It was a complete line change for Montreal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-57hNBzkUvY
Eller got credit for the goal and he was not even on the ice. It was a complete line change for Montreal.
Great goal ! I bet Tortorella loved it !
Will Tortorella in Vancouver do better than Vigneault with the NYR ?
Funny how these two exchanged their jobs.
Will Tortorella in Vancouver do better than Vigneault with the NYR ?
Funny how these two exchanged their jobs.
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